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Private property prices... Up or Down?


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Thanks Bro therock for the updates [thumbsup]

 

Shunfu enbloc sale update-

http://www.straitstimes.com/business/property/high-court-approves-shunfu-ville-collective-sale

High Court approves Shunfu Ville collective sale

JAN 5, 2017

 

"In May last year, around 82 per cent of Shunfu Ville owners agreed to sell the 358-unit privatised Housing and Urban Development Company estate to Qingjian Realty.

 

Each flat owner stood to pocket an average of $1.782 million, after they had agreed to lower the reserve price from $688 million to $638 million.

 

But Qingjian faced a hiccup in October, when five owners objected to the sale. This meant that the deal needed High Court approval. Owners can object on grounds such as financial loss, even after the sale committee gets the requisite percentage of owners' approval.

 

The Straits Times understands that three of the objecting parties eventually withdrew their objections. It is not clear why the two remaining owners are objecting.

 

Qingjian managing director Li Jun told The Straits Times the company was "very happy" to have obtained the High Court's approval."

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http://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/just-sold-tomlinson-heights-unit-sold-2743-psf

JUST SOLD: Tomlinson Heights unit sold at $2,743 psf

January 5, 2017

 

In prime district 10, a 4,047 sq ft, five-bedroom unit on the eighth floor at Tomlinson Heights was sold for $11.1 million ($2,743 psf) on December 27. The transacted price of $2,743 psf was the second lowest price achieved among nine transactions in 2016.

 

In August 2016, a 2,745 sq ft unit on the 21st floor fetched $6.70 million, or $2,441 psf, the lowest price in the entire development to date. Prices for the remaining transactions in 2016 ranged from $2,850 psf to $3,014 psf for 4,047 sq ft units.

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I missed this news..

 

That's why Susan Lim has an offshore account to funnel her income mah.

 

But like I said, a person declaring their 250k per month as 25k doesn't affect what is considered middle income.

There are two ways of looking at what is middle income, bro.

 

One way is your way, where the mark is define by the number of people

Simply put, if there are 10 people, and the no. Of people falling into a certain bracket creates the category

 

The other way is merc280v6 and my way.

That is not looking at the number of people but looking at the dollar value across the whole population.

 

See it this way, Rolex submariner is a decent luxury watch about 15-20 yeprs ago.

But if more and more people in the streets can afford one, and today every new fresh working adult can afford one, then it is not longer considered a luxury watch anymore.

 

It is a man in the street watch.

 

You may not agree but hope you understand our point of view.

 

Cheers

Edited by Throttle2
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There are two ways of looking at what is middle income, bro.

 

One way is your way, where the mark is define by the number of people

Simply put, if there are 10 people, and the no. Of people falling into a certain bracket creates the category

 

The other way is merc280v6 and my way.

That is not looking at the number of people but looking at the dollar value across the whole population.

 

See it this way, Rolex submariner is a decent luxury watch about 15-20 yeprs ago.

But if more and more people in the streets can afford one, and today every new fresh working adult can afford one, then it is not longer considered a luxury watch anymore.

 

It is a man in the street watch.

 

You may not agree but hope you understand our point of view.

 

Cheers

I'm with T2 on this view and will use a different, albeit a more vested analogy.

 

Some 20-30 years ago, when Singapore's population was circa 2.5m, the young nation's middle class would have drawn household salaries within the 2-sigma band of the 40-60 percentile of what I would call a near-normal distribution (in statistical terms).

 

Over the last <20 years, when Singapore's population grew rapidly to near-6m, the new additions were mostly higher-salaried P and M of PMETs and HNW business people, who landed here cash-rich, buying up private property and drawing salaries, profits and/or dividends that are singly, or severally, significantly higher than the original 40-60% of local middle class.

 

This has led to a very skewed socio-demographic distribution of wealth, which has now become very much top-heavy.

You see, there were few new citizens that made up the middle-to-low income rungs. The latter were significantly work permit and special-pass holders, the E and T of PMETs, whom were never incorporated in Singapore's household incomes statistics.

 

So what happened to middle-class Singapore then?

From top-down pressure of the new entrants, they have been squeezed down the rungs, to probably the 30 to sub-50 percentile ... no longer middle class per se.

 

So who are the real middle class of today? The true HNW locals of old remain - successful business people / old money, specialist doctors & surgeons, top lawyers / bankers and the likes. But they have now been joined by even more HNW foreigners (many in very similar professions) who have sunk roots and families in Singapore!

 

The new Singapore middle class ... where $500K pa is nothing to shout about.

You don't know what you don't know, if you're not moving around in the appropriate social circles.

No point arguing then.

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Then bopian already. The number of people on this island has doubled, but Merc280v6 and your identical way of looking at high income means looking at a fixed number of people means the income level would have skyrocketed in 15 to 20 years.

 

If can anyhow pluck numbers from the sky and suka suka define classical and standard terms, then no matter what you say is definitely correct.

 

You are 100% correct, in your terms! Power! 

 

There are two ways of looking at what is middle income, bro.

One way is your way, where the mark is define by the number of people
Simply put, if there are 10 people, and the no. Of people falling into a certain bracket creates the category

The other way is merc280v6 and my way.
That is not looking at the number of people but looking at the dollar value across the whole population.

See it this way, Rolex submariner is a decent luxury watch about 15-20 yeprs ago.
But if more and more people in the streets can afford one, and today every new fresh working adult can afford one, then it is not longer considered a luxury watch anymore.

It is a man in the street watch.

You may not agree but hope you understand our point of view.

Cheers

 


You are also 100% correct, identical to T2!

 

I'm with T2 on this view and will use a different, albeit a more vested analogy.

Some 20-30 years ago, when Singapore's population was circa 2.5m, the young nation's middle class would have drawn household salaries within the 2-sigma band of the 40-60 percentile of what I would call a near-normal distribution (in statistical terms).

Over the last <20 years, when Singapore's population grew rapidly to near-6m, the new additions were mostly higher-salaried P and M of PMETs and HNW business people, who landed here cash-rich, buying up private property and drawing salaries, profits and/or dividends that are singly, or severally, significantly higher than the original 40-60% of local middle class.

This has led to a very skewed socio-demographic distribution of wealth, which has now become very much top-heavy.
You see, there were few new citizens that made up the middle-to-low income rungs. The latter were significantly work permit and special-pass holders, the E and T of PMETs, whom were never incorporated in Singapore's household incomes statistics.

So what happened to middle-class Singapore then?
From top-down pressure of the new entrants, they have been squeezed down the rungs, to probably the 30 to sub-50 percentile ... no longer middle class per se.

So who are the real middle class of today? The true HNW locals of old remain - successful business people / old money, specialist doctors & surgeons, top lawyers / bankers and the likes. But they have now been joined by even more HNW foreigners (many in very similar professions) who have sunk roots and families in Singapore!

The new Singapore middle class ... where $500K pa is nothing to shout about.
You don't know what you don't know, if you're not moving around in the appropriate social circles.
No point arguing then.

 

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Yes.Here are 2 reasons for this this new property :

 

1. Interest rate

2. Currency

 

I cannot control interest rate, but can do currency play. A dollar less for SGD that helps to offset interest rate. That's the beauty. Whereas I can't do that in Singapore property. Pump more when currency down, and less when currency up. 

 

No worries bro, some huat news for you [thumbsup]

http://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/australian-house-prices-rise-most-seven-years-low-rates
Australian house prices rise most in seven years on low rates
January 5, 2017

 

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I'm with T2 on this view and will use a different, albeit a more vested analogy.

 

Some 20-30 years ago, when Singapore's population was circa 2.5m, the young nation's middle class would have drawn household salaries within the 2-sigma band of the 40-60 percentile of what I would call a near-normal distribution (in statistical terms).

 

Over the last <20 years, when Singapore's population grew rapidly to near-6m, the new additions were mostly higher-salaried P and M of PMETs and HNW business people, who landed here cash-rich, buying up private property and drawing salaries, profits and/or dividends that are singly, or severally, significantly higher than the original 40-60% of local middle class.

 

This has led to a very skewed socio-demographic distribution of wealth, which has now become very much top-heavy.

You see, there were few new citizens that made up the middle-to-low income rungs. The latter were significantly work permit and special-pass holders, the E and T of PMETs, whom were never incorporated in Singapore's household incomes statistics.

 

So what happened to middle-class Singapore then?

From top-down pressure of the new entrants, they have been squeezed down the rungs, to probably the 30 to sub-50 percentile ... no longer middle class per se.

 

So who are the real middle class of today? The true HNW locals of old remain - successful business people / old money, specialist doctors & surgeons, top lawyers / bankers and the likes. But they have now been joined by even more HNW foreigners (many in very similar professions) who have sunk roots and families in Singapore!

 

The new Singapore middle class ... where $500K pa is nothing to shout about.

You don't know what you don't know, if you're not moving around in the appropriate social circles.

No point arguing then.

 

Ooooorrrrhhhhh, now you will be branded haolian for life in MCF, like me. Heeeeeeee.

Just becos we dare face the truth out there.

 

Today you tell a 40yr old chap who makes $15k a month that he is no where near high income, he may get angry with you and think that you are jealous or trying to put him down..

He wont appreciate that you are actually telling him the truth and sharing with him the pace of change.

Thats the stark reality.

 

We hv absolute examples here already.

 

Anyway, back to topic.

 

up or down? Anyone buying selling properties lately?

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Cluny Park Residence got fire sale bo? [sly][laugh]

From telling me that they will sell out before official launch a few years ago until today with 30-40% units still available at discounted price.

 

What do you think?

 

If genuine buyer go in, sure got decent discount

Confirm stamp and chop.

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Nobody is offended bro. Just stick to official terms and real demographics for meaningful discussion. Can confidently do a poll and those who are serious (>95%) will not classify 500K as middle income. Anecdotal evidence everyone also can say what they want. I can also classify $1million per annum earners as low income and deserving of HDB if I want - it's just not reality at a demographics or population level.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

 

"Economic liberals (defined as those who support a private sector-driven market economy) consider private property to be essential for the construction of a prosperous society. They believe private ownership of land ensures the land will be put to productive use and its value protected by the landowner. If the owners must pay property taxes, this forces the owners to maintain a productive output from the land to keep taxes current. Private property also attaches a monetary value to land, which can be used to trade or as collateral. Private property thus is an important part of capitalization within the economy.

 

Socialist economists are critical of private property as socialism aims to substitute private property in the means of production for social ownership or public property. Socialists generally argue that private property relations limit the potential of the productive forces in the economy when productive activity becomes a collective activity, where the role of the capitalist becomes redundant (as a passive owner). Socialists generally favor social ownership either to eliminate the class distinctions between owners and workers, and as a component of the development of a post-capitalist economic system."

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Wah lau.. MCF middle class debate again..

Last time got middle, upper-lower middle, upper middle etc

So now just middle or not middle??

 

Why so bothered with classification. We all know 500k pa is more than enough to have a good life in SG but also not considered to be rich in Singapore

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http://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/content/just-sold-tomlinson-heights-unit-sold-2743-psf

JUST SOLD: Tomlinson Heights unit sold at $2,743 psf

January 5, 2017

 

In prime district 10, a 4,047 sq ft, five-bedroom unit on the eighth floor at Tomlinson Heights was sold for $11.1 million ($2,743 psf) on December 27. The transacted price of $2,743 psf was the second lowest price achieved among nine transactions in 2016.

 

In August 2016, a 2,745 sq ft unit on the 21st floor fetched $6.70 million, or $2,441 psf, the lowest price in the entire development to date. Prices for the remaining transactions in 2016 ranged from $2,850 psf to $3,014 psf for 4,047 sq ft units.

 

 

Low may go lower ....

no holding power means jia-lat liao ....

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End of the day, just do your best and be contented with your lot. If one day i can even be close to 500k, i won't be asking myself if i am middle or upper.. all these are just comparison with other people. 

 

I will just be happy that i can provide a comfortable life for my family and have some for retirement  [laugh]

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Also, excluding c-suite and businessman, i think most of our salaried workers are being paid too much and way above our value.

 

once, i was negotiating salary with prospective boss. I asked for a mere 200+k only and he got angry, He told me even he didn't make that kind of salary when he was working in wall street at my age.  [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

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Also, excluding c-suite and businessman, i think most of our salaried workers are being paid too much and way above our value.

 

once, i was negotiating salary with prospective boss. I asked for a mere 200+k only and he got angry, He told me even he didn't make that kind of salary when he was working in wall street at my age. [laugh][laugh][laugh]

Lol

 

Since you think most salaried workers are paid too much and way above value, dont you think that the 200k+ that you are asking for is too much too?

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Also, excluding c-suite and businessman, i think most of our salaried workers are being paid too much and way above our value.

 

once, i was negotiating salary with prospective boss. I asked for a mere 200+k only and he got angry, He told me even he didn't make that kind of salary when he was working in wall street at my age. [laugh][laugh][laugh]

Wow, elite work force member

$200k plus at 30yrs old

Now at 37yrs oldl must be $500k at least lah

Mai keh keh.

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