Alkaline water system

[Adrianli]

 

I am surprise that HDB does not inform their tenants when they do their cleaning of their water tank. In condo, when a water tank is cleaned, the management often inform their residents not to use their tap for a certain period and also inform them not to use appliance such as water heater.

 

Hmmmm............because there are more than one water tank up there? When they cleaning one tank, they just switch supply to the other tank, thus does not disrupt water supply to the residents. Therefore no need to inform the residents. I guess.

 

[Kemp]

 

 

Perhaps if it ain't gd enuf for fish, it ain't gd enuf for me ? :P

Lol the size of an organism will determine the ability to contain toxicity without dying. The top of the food chain tend to be carnivores and they contain toxic heavy metals or chemicals as they consume contaminated prey...

[Kklee]

 

I agree with you.

 

Water immediately directly from the water treatment plant does require addition of water filter. Why water filter is installed, my humble opinion, is because the water from the water treatment plant needs to travel to your home through kilometres of pipes (there may be repairs made and sediments do get in). In addition, most live in highrise and there is a need to pump water to the roof water tank. As we know water tank needs cleaning on a regular basis and sediments flow into your tap. Hence, many fit a water filter at home.

 

If water is clean and no need for a filter as suggested, then why does the water filter eventually get clogged up.

 

I am surprise that HDB does not inform their tenants when they do their cleaning of their water tank. In condo, when a water tank is cleaned, the management often inform their residents not to use their tap for a certain period and also inform them not to use appliance such as water heater.

 

Those you mentioned are some of the reasons why I use filtered water.

 

My most important concern is related to chloramines which I have no idea about the long term effects.

Drinking unfiltered water drys my throat too much. I usually rely on Hyflux Water Pitcher, Evian, distilled water, etc.

 

My favourite sets of keyword search,

1) chloramines, pub

2) chloramines, mrt

[Kemp]

 

I agree with you.

 

Water immediately directly from the water treatment plant does require addition of water filter. Why water filter is installed, my humble opinion, is because the water from the water treatment plant needs to travel to your home through kilometres of pipes (there may be repairs made and sediments do get in). In addition, most live in highrise and there is a need to pump water to the roof water tank. As we know water tank needs cleaning on a regular basis and sediments flow into your tap. Hence, many fit a water filter at home.

 

If water is clean and no need for a filter as suggested, then why does the water filter eventually get clogged up.

 

I am surprise that HDB does not inform their tenants when they do their cleaning of their water tank. In condo, when a water tank is cleaned, the management often inform their residents not to use their tap for a certain period and also inform them not to use appliance such as water heater.

Dear David,

 

I am surprise you mention HDB do not inform their tenants about tank cleaning. Do becareful because it's not true... All my immediate family staying in hdb are well informed in advance. If you find that's not true maybe a trip to the town council might work wonders, otherwise time to change management?

 

My own experience on filter usage in home from my customer visitation would put somewhere about 3-4/10 household would use a filter, if there were more than half home using filters, then the proud message that our water is drinkable from the tap by our govt is in trouble.

 

But filters becoming "dirty" is something of dispute. If you say its sedimented, then its right to say the filter used will clogged up, but i have only seen 2 clogging case in the 5 over years working with Kemp.. Of the 2, one was an industrial whilst the other was a home, both had external water piping retrofitted but did not take notice of the information circulated via notice board / mail. There are some forgetful customers that use our filter for over 5 years without changing but still water flows. (And we actually use an ultra fine filter 0.01m or 10 nano size filter cartridge)

 

 

Now the "dirty" issue, not what u see in a filter is directly cause by dirt, yes there are some due to a disturbing of the sedimentation in the water tanks during cleaning but if you ever visited a hdb water tank, you will find that the pipe that lets water down to our homes are a couple of ft off the base therefore allowing sediment if any due to obvious reasons to be trapped at the base. The actual discoloration aka brownish dirt on filters such a ceramic/fiber filters are actually due more to oxidized minerals that got trapped on the filter. Oxidation causes calcium carbonate etc (white in colour) to turn brown in colour.

 

Hope the above helps

 

Gary

[Kemp]

 

Those you mentioned are some of the reasons why I use filtered water.

 

My most important concern is related to chloramines which I have no idea about the long term effects.

Drinking unfiltered water drys my throat too much. I usually rely on Hyflux Water Pitcher, Evian, distilled water, etc.

 

My favourite sets of keyword search,

1) chloramines, pub

2) chloramines, mrt

Yes chloramines are basically chelated chlorine to form a solid compound in the water. It was introduced in our water somewhere in 2003 during the SARs crisis. Because chloramines do not evaporated, the staying sanitizing power is kept in place to prevent contamination via water.

 

How it affects human in the long term is anyone's guess as safety data is protracted according to basic information and stats. But one thing is sure, the quality of Singapore water is one of the best because effort is made to limit the usage of chemicals to the bare minimum rather than following the WHO standards which is the global indicative standard, in this case water.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

Hmmmm............because there are more than one water tank up there? When they cleaning one tank, they just switch supply to the other tank, thus does not disrupt water supply to the residents. Therefore no need to inform the residents. I guess.

 

Lol, no lah..

 

There will be a disruption of water supply from this time to this time. Usually from 10am - 4pm at my place. Of course maybe newer estate have 2 tanks but i seriously doubt so as its double the cost to upkeep...

[DavidOh]

Dear David,

 

I am surprise you mention HDB do not inform their tenants about tank cleaning. Do becareful because it's not true... All my immediate family staying in hdb are well informed in advance. If you find that's not true maybe a trip to the town council might work wonders, otherwise time to change management?

 

My own experience on filter usage in home from my customer visitation would put somewhere about 3-4/10 household would use a filter, if there were more than half home using filters, then the proud message that our water is drinkable from the tap by our govt is in trouble.

 

But filters becoming "dirty" is something of dispute. If you say its sedimented, then its right to say the filter used will clogged up, but i have only seen 2 clogging case in the 5 over years working with Kemp.. Of the 2, one was an industrial whilst the other was a home, both had external water piping retrofitted but did not take notice of the information circulated via notice board / mail. There are some forgetful customers that use our filter for over 5 years without changing but still water flows. (And we actually use an ultra fine filter 0.01m or 10 nano size filter cartridge)

 

 

Now the "dirty" issue, not what u see in a filter is directly cause by dirt, yes there are some due to a disturbing of the sedimentation in the water tanks during cleaning but if you ever visited a hdb water tank, you will find that the pipe that lets water down to our homes are a couple of ft off the base therefore allowing sediment if any due to obvious reasons to be trapped at the base. The actual discoloration aka brownish dirt on filters such a ceramic/fiber filters are actually due more to oxidized minerals that got trapped on the filter. Oxidation causes calcium carbonate etc (white in colour) to turn brown in colour.

 

Hope the above helps

 

Gary

 

HDB assumes everybody can read and in most instances are posted on the notice board only.

 

You never seem to fail to promote your product at any chance. It is fine but do it tastefully.

 

With regards to water filter, buildings of certain age will experience some form (micro- or visible) sediments especially if their water pipes are not changed. This is indisputable.

 

Until recently, we do not know who has access to the water tank in the roof of HDB. For all we know, we hope not, mops may be cleaned using the water tank water. Don't forget that there was a dead body in the water tank and only after a day or two, was the residents informed. Perhaps these examples are too dramatic.

 

If as claim by you that water from our taps are so pure that can do without the addition of water filter, why do you have a water filter in your machine in the first place and boasting that it has 10 nano size filter.

 

It is frightening to hear that your customers have not being informed of the need to change their filter even after 5 years. A filter needs to be changed periodically because it can be a source of bugs as the filtrate may make a medium for bugs to grow. This is also indisputable.

 

If you go to any hospital in particular laboratory, they do install water filters.

 

With regards to your explanation on discolouration of the filter, isn't it your explanation confirms our believe that there are impurities in the water, as you clearly state oxidised minerals that got trapped on the filter.

[Kemp]

 

HDB assumes everybody can read and in most instances are posted on the notice board only.

 

You never seem to fail to promote your product at any chance. It is fine but do it tastefully.

 

With regards to water filter, buildings of certain age will experience some form (micro- or visible) sediments especially if their water pipes are not changed. This is indisputable.

 

Until recently, we do not know who has access to the water tank in the roof of HDB. For all we know, we hope not, mops may be cleaned using the water tank water. Don't forget that there was a dead body in the water tank and only after a day or two, was the residents informed. Perhaps these examples are too dramatic.

 

If as claim by you that water from our taps are so pure that can do without the addition of water filter, why do you have a water filter in your machine in the first place and boasting that it has 10 nano size filter.

 

It is frightening to hear that your customers have not being informed of the need to change their filter even after 5 years. A filter needs to be changed periodically because it can be a source of bugs as the filtrate may make a medium for bugs to grow. This is also indisputable.

 

If you go to any hospital in particular laboratory, they do install water filters.

 

With regards to your explanation on discolouration of the filter, isn't it your explanation confirms our believe that there are impurities in the water, as you clearly state oxidised minerals that got trapped on the filter.

Information are written in 3 languages for the benefits of residents. If a resident fails to read notices, then how can one say its not there? I assume notice boards are there for a REASON.

 

As I mention, I work in a company they deals with water systems, I do not promote them as stated in my 1st post but in order to let people understand the why i say what i say, i have to draw from my experience. I shall not delve into the "tasteful" statement either.

 

We have to understand what kind of sedimentation are you about. Kindly clarify the sedimentation you are actually saying as there could be a misunderstand of your version of sedimentation.

 

Our system are water ionization system not filters. The filters employed here is to remove bacteria & chemicals, sedimentation are the least of our worries. Saying this there is no worries of drinking from a "expired" filter because you will never drink the "bugs" because the filters are smaller than the bugs themselves, of course bug would grow in an expired filter but does it cause issues, not much other than affect ones mental well being. We are not proprietary owners of such materials and they are readily available from any filtration company.

 

What and who are inside the water tank should not be a cause of concern other then the mental aspect. Afterall such "items" when considered in its smallest form are harmless to a human body.

 

Your statement of filters in a laboratory is comical. Coming from a laboratory background, I do know why filters are needed. Its to make sure your experiments / test are not complicated further with the unknown in the water supply.

 

If you say minerals are impurities, then our bodies are the most contaminated because we keep lots of minerals, these minerals are ESSENTIAL for bodily function. Impurities the case of water are toxins, chemicals etc not minerals.

 

From your sentences, I can see that you may have some background in filtration but somewhat misinformed.

 

Ps still waiting for you to provide the information as requested in the previous post

[DavidOh]

Information are written in 3 languages for the benefits of residents. If a resident fails to read notices, then how can one say its not there? I assume notice boards are there for a REASON.

 

As I mention, I work in a company they deals with water systems, I do not promote them as stated in my 1st post but in order to let people understand the why i say what i say, i have to draw from my experience. I shall not delve into the "tasteful" statement either.

 

We have to understand what kind of sedimentation are you about. Kindly clarify the sedimentation you are actually saying as there could be a misunderstand of your version of sedimentation.

 

Sedimentation is sedimentation in the broadest sense because we do not know what is found in the water. There is no misunderstand.

Our system are water ionization system not filters. The filters employed here is to remove bacteria & chemicals, sedimentation are the least of our worries. Saying this there is no worries of drinking from a "expired" filter because you will never drink the "bugs" because the filters are smaller than the bugs themselves, of course bug would grow in an expired filter but does it cause issues, not much other than affect ones mental well being. We are not proprietary owners of such materials and they are readily available from any filtration company.

 

Try not to make confusion of the issue at hand and bringing in "expired" filter. As far as I understand is we try not to ingest bugs if we can help it. How much is safe? You are assuming everybody is healthy and have similar excellent immune system.

 

What and who are inside the water tank should not be a cause of concern other then the mental aspect. Afterall such "items" when considered in its smallest form are harmless to a human body.

 

Your premise of smallest form are harmless to a human body, I beg to defer. Trying telling that to our communicable disease doctors. Please bear in the smallest form initially can multiple in a very short time.

Your statement of filters in a laboratory is comical. Coming from a laboratory background, I do know why filters are needed. Its to make sure your experiments / test are not complicated further with the unknown in the water supply.

 

To you it may be comical but to the department it is not. The fact that they need to have filters indicate they do not know what may be inside the water (included free) that may complicate their experiment. If chemicals (sediments in the loose term) can affect experiments can we extrapolate that in the long term consumption of water from the same source, there may be possible detrimental effect to the human body.

 

If you say minerals are impurities, then our bodies are the most contaminated because we keep lots of minerals, these minerals are ESSENTIAL for bodily function. Impurities the case of water are toxins, chemicals etc not minerals.

 

I like to think you are humouring me on this issue. You are telling too much of any particular mineral is not toxic to the body.

From your sentences, I can see that you may have some background in filtration but somewhat misinformed.

 

I don't think I am misinformed but rather I am very keen to convince myself that such a system benefits one's health. If you and your company are on a crusade of doing good surely you don't have to sell your machines so very expensive. The selling model is if I am not wrong close or is multi-level marketing. I understand the commission is very high too.

 

Ps still waiting for you to provide the information as requested in the previous post

 

You came into this forum opening inviting anyone with questions about the system and it is NOT the other way round. In fact, I am unable to find information that can refute that the alkaline water is not useful but harmful in some cases.

 

You mentioned research and articles are written in Japanese and Korean as they are carried out in their countries. There is no translation available for most of the articles and research. In the scientific world, if you have something a scientist needs to valid his or her studies from another institution which according to you there are none. Why NONE after so many decades?

 

Surely, the product is sold in Singapore, America and Europe, don't tell me the company selling all these products assume everybody in Singapore, America and Europe can read Japanese and Korean. Hence, English translation is essential. Many consumers like myself would like to read first hand and not a summary by any company because we don't really know if only "good parts of the article" are quoted. This does not imply you or your company are doing it. Therefore, my request for English translation of the relevant articles are not forthcoming.

 

The reason why I brought up medicus index is because you mentioned a long history of research on alkaline water system which I could not find. I realised you must have looked up Wikipedia to reply the issue on Medicus index.

 

Index Medicus (IM) was a comprehensive bibliographic index of scientific journal articles focusing on medical science fields, published from 1879 to 2004.

 

Please be assured that I am not to challenge you or to be one up against you. I am here to search for real answer like many who may be reading this. I am grateful that you had taken the trouble to reply but unfortunately if you read the postings, there were NO supportive evidence provided (apart from directing to some website which is NOT authoritative enough) or convincingly refute any counter-claims.

 

I believe like many, the alkaline water system, is very expensive and we are adding something to our diet which if you claim had been so wondered for the past many decades, why is it not caught on in any major way? If it is so good and beneficial why does it need to be sold in a multi-level marketing level with high commission to seller? If it is so good as claim, why universities, hospitals and clinics are not rushing out to promote them? Why is our National Health Promotion Board NOT promoting such a system to ensure health living? Surely, keeping citizens healthy is of utmost important and less usage of our hospital beds would be highly welcome.

 

There are so many questions, we need hard evidence (if your Japanese and Korean evidence are so highly validated, why arent they translated for the benefit of the public at large and scientists in the western world) before we put something into our mouth and into our system in a long term manner. We are all searching for the truth.

 

[Kemp]

Information are written in 3 languages for the benefits of residents. If a resident fails to read notices, then how can one say its not there? I assume notice boards are there for a REASON.

 

As I mention, I work in a company they deals with water systems, I do not promote them as stated in my 1st post but in order to let people understand the why i say what i say, i have to draw from my experience. I shall not delve into the "tasteful" statement either.

 

We have to understand what kind of sedimentation are you about. Kindly clarify the sedimentation you are actually saying as there could be a misunderstand of your version of sedimentation.

 

Sedimentation is sedimentation in the broadest sense because we do not know what is found in the water. There is no misunderstand.

 

Unfortunately its misunderstanding your

 

Our system are water ionization system not filters. The filters employed here is to remove bacteria & chemicals, sedimentation are the least of our worries. Saying this there is no worries of drinking from a "expired" filter because you will never drink the "bugs" because the filters are smaller than the bugs themselves, of course bug would grow in an expired filter but does it cause issues, not much other than affect ones mental well being. We are not proprietary owners of such materials and they are readily available from any filtration company.

 

Try not to make confusion of the issue at hand and bringing in "expired" filter. As far as I understand is we try not to ingest bugs if we can help it. How much is safe? You are assuming everybody is healthy and have similar excellent immune system.

 

What and who are inside the water tank should not be a cause of concern other then the mental aspect. Afterall such "items" when considered in its smallest form are harmless to a human body.

 

Your premise of smallest form are harmless to a human body, I beg to defer. Trying telling that to our communicable disease doctors. Please bear in the smallest form initially can multiple in a very short time.

 

I think you are forgetting about the reason why chemicals are inside our water source in the 1st place??

 

Your statement of filters in a laboratory is comical. Coming from a laboratory background, I do know why filters are needed. Its to make sure your experiments / test are not complicated further with the unknown in the water supply.

 

To you it may be comical but to the department it is not. The fact that they need to have filters indicate they do not know what may be inside the water (included free) that may complicate their experiment. If chemicals (sediments in the loose term) can affect experiments can we extrapolate that in the long term consumption of water from the same source, there may be possible detrimental effect to the human body.

 

Experiment in vitro (outside the body) is only good to a certain extent to be sure money spent on in vivo (inside the body) is well spent, meaning there are chances of success. However its the in vivo that affect the human body not in vitro.

 

If you say minerals are impurities, then our bodies are the most contaminated because we keep lots of minerals, these minerals are ESSENTIAL for bodily function. Impurities the case of water are toxins, chemicals etc not minerals.

 

I like to think you are humouring me on this issue. You are telling too much of any particular mineral is not toxic to the body.

 

I suggest checking out the DRI from US of the different types of minerals before even commenting on this sentence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Reference_Intake#Vitamins_and_minerals. One simple example is calcium in our water supply, a simple check would find that we have roughly 20 - 30 mg/L of calcium in our water supply, now look at what is the required amount of calcium intake under RDA which is 1000mg. If you relied on water to supply you with calcium you would have needed 50L of water a day.. and I seriously doubt we drink even 5% of that volume. Now take a look a the UPPER LIMIT which is 2500mg. I think you can see the picture, minerals in the water are not impurities and are not toxic because in the 1st place there is not much to begin with.

 

From your sentences, I can see that you may have some background in filtration but somewhat misinformed.

 

I don't think I am misinformed but rather I am very keen to convince myself that such a system benefits one's health. If you and your company are on a crusade of doing good surely you don't have to sell your machines so very expensive. The selling model is if I am not wrong close or is multi-level marketing. I understand the commission is very high too.

 

I do not represent that company and honestly I disapprove such manner of sales tactics. In fact in my honest opinion, MLM is a flawed system because it focusing on the infinite number of possible sales on a finite population on our planet.

 

Ps still waiting for you to provide the information as requested in the previous post

 

You came into this forum opening inviting anyone with questions about the system and it is NOT the other way round. In fact, I am unable to find information that can refute that the alkaline water is not useful but harmful in some cases.

 

 

"Equally there are tons of scientific journals and peer reviewed papers available on the web disproving the benefits of alkaline water system and some goes to the extend of claim it cause more harm than good."

 

The above was your quote and now you say you can't find any? Then why in the 1st place bring it up? I find this sentence unintellectual to even continue

 

You mentioned research and articles are written in Japanese and Korean as they are carried out in their countries. There is no translation available for most of the articles and research. In the scientific world, if you have something a scientist needs to valid his or her studies from another institution which according to you there are none. Why NONE after so many decades?

 

There are already works that replicate early research works in Japan. But in clinical trials, its still far.

 

Surely, the product is sold in Singapore, America and Europe, don't tell me the company selling all these products assume everybody in Singapore, America and Europe can read Japanese and Korean. Hence, English translation is essential. Many consumers like myself would like to read first hand and not a summary by any company because we don't really know if only "good parts of the article" are quoted. This does not imply you or your company are doing it. Therefore, my request for English translation of the relevant articles are not forthcoming.

 

Again companies are not obligated to show you every evidence before buying since it a marketing company and not a research house. US and Europe marketing efforts focus on...... well marketing. I do not think many consumers are like you as you would like to think so. But rather the 20% of bell curve. That being said I would still like to share to those who like to understand more.

 

The reason why I brought up medicus index is because you mentioned a long history of research on alkaline water system which I could not find. I realised you must have looked up Wikipedia to reply the issue on Medicus index.

 

Index Medicus (IM) was a comprehensive bibliographic index of scientific journal articles focusing on medical science fields, published from 1879 to 2004.

 

I have already made this point clearly, publishing houses in the past are more country specific and not global like we are expericing now. Since the research and clinical work was done in Japan and Korea, its safe to say they will be published there for their own fellow scientist to view. IM is Americian and not Japanes nor Korean, it makes no sense to publish research works there since scientist in Japan nor Korea have any requirement to engage the world stage then. However saying this, cell based and animal research are being conducted now around the world, I do believe that there will be possibilities for such clinical trial to take place outside Japan.

 

Please be assured that I am not to challenge you or to be one up against you. I am here to search for real answer like many who may be reading this. I am grateful that you had taken the trouble to reply but unfortunately if you read the postings, there were NO supportive evidence provided (apart from directing to some website which is NOT authoritative enough) or convincingly refute any counter-claims.

 

What is authoritative enough to you? I like what one of the signature that quotes Albert Einstein which sadly its not but wise nontheless" 'Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.' I would like to be judged fairly therefore please enlighten me your standards and not move around.

 

I believe like many, the alkaline water system, is very expensive and we are adding something to our diet which if you claim had been so wondered for the past many decades, why is it not caught on in any major way? If it is so good and beneficial why does it need to be sold in a multi-level marketing level with high commission to seller? If it is so good as claim, why universities, hospitals and clinics are not rushing out to promote them? Why is our National Health Promotion Board NOT promoting such a system to ensure health living? Surely, keeping citizens healthy is of utmost important and less usage of our hospital beds would be highly welcome.

 

I hardly think a systems that are below 1k are expensive such as panasonic, of course there are those MLM that will take your arm and leg if you allow. We market a variety of systems for different disposal income brackets. Alkaline ionized water only arrive in Singapore in 1988 which is only 26 years only. I totally get your sentiments on MLM and I feel the same, however please remove us (as in rest of the water ionizer industry) from the MLM. I think judging the water ionizer industry at the extereme end of the "bell curve" would be really unfair. If you mentioned that its not caught on in a major way, why then are there currently more than 20 similar technology providers of such systems in Singapore? There are homegrown singapore players, taiwanese, japanese, korean, malaysian etc. Surely is not to lose their investment right? Its good that singapore is moving toward to like of Japan and Korean healthcare but we are not there yet. If there comes a day where 90% of a doctor's bill is paid by the government, alternative such as water ionizer maybe on the menu.

 

Keeping your citizen healthy is important if you are paying the bills, if not why bother to look for new inventions? Everyone has to earn their keep healthcare is no different. I am not sure if you have experience this in medical care. Say you are under a company medical coverage, when you see the doctor, they tend o load u up with more meds then necessary and propose more test to confirm its not anything "serious" why? revenue generation. The doctor would then propose a reconsultation after test are done or if the patient rejects the proposal would suggent an appointment to make sure everything is fine. Though this may not be the case for all doctors, I have seen my fair share.

 

There are so many questions, we need hard evidence (if your Japanese and Korean evidence are so highly validated, why arent they translated for the benefit of the public at large and scientists in the western world) before we put something into our mouth and into our system in a long term manner. We are all searching for the truth.

 

The ministry of health and welfare in Japan approved water ionizer systems to be used as domestic medical appratus since 1965. The Korean FDA approved it in 1970. There would be already a 2nd generation that are brought up drinking from such system. If there are long term disadvantage side effects, it would have already appeared. Not seeing research papers to validate the claim doe not mean its not working. I would personally love to see more research articles in english however what I have is already convincing enough.

 

Take a simple example of scurvy, seafarers did not know what was inside lemons that stop the disease but it worked. It was only years later that people knew Vitamin C help prevent and stopped the condition.

 

What evidence I am providing is already more than what most healthy "hexagonal" "Pi" water sellers would do and yet its "not convincing enough"?

 

I have recommended you to vist the association of alkaline ionized water appratus, have you done so? This discussion would be far more intellectual than simply generalist statements that take up space.

 

Best wishes

 

Gary

 

[Galantspeedz]

I read with interest both david oh and gary (kemp) debates but it seems the debate has digressed

 

The topic should remains as is alkaline or oxidized water necessary

[Safetyfirst]

Needs Vs Wants

[Kemp]

I read with interest both david oh and gary (kemp) debates but it seems the debate has digressed

 

The topic should remains as is alkaline or oxidized water necessary

 

Dear Galantspeedz.

 

I totally agree and apologize for the digression.

 

I think we have to move on rather than whipping the "dead horse" so to speak.

 

Therefore any query or comment on the previous info will be left as it is or if necessary taken offline via pm.

 

Now the question on whether alkaline or acid (oxidized) is necessary.

 

I would think you are what you consume. People who consume high amount of alkaline food tend to have lesser (not no health issue) health issues than compared to people who consume more acidic diets.

 

The lifespan of people are linked to the alkaline and acidic balanced of the body. However if the lifestyle and diet is not balanced then issues will eventually crop up.

 

Therefore alkalinity of the body is important regardless of water or food is utmost important. Most importantly would be that the alkalinity must be natural not artificially induced.

 

Best wishes

 

Gary

Edited August 14, 2014 by Kemp

[DavidOh]

3. Cautions of Drinking Alkaline Water

There’s also the issue of water pH – acidic water versus alkaline water. There are a lot of amazing health assertions about alkaline water, but are they really true? Most of them aren’t. It is best to drink water that is between 6.5 and 8 pH levels. As for being harmful to drink alkaline water over the long run all we do know is that it has been shown to be harmful to plants and animals.

 

In the case of alkaline water that is naturally there is no problem in drinking up to 2 liters a day. Since the alkalinity is a result of naturally minerals such as magnesium and calcium, the body is capable of using these minerals if needs and discarding or storing any excess. You will not become too alkaline by drinking alkaline water that is naturally.

 

http://www.med-health.net/Alkaline-Water-Benefits.html

 

 

 

 

Bottled water doesn't offer any health advantage over British tap water, which is of very high quality and costs much less. Water is just water and has no magic ­ingredients. Drinking alkaline water does not protect you against excessive ­stomach acid, and suggesting that it promotes good health is medical nonsense. Our bodies have very ­efficient "­buffering" systems to e­nsure that our blood and ­tissues are kept at the right balance ­between acid and ­alkali. Alkalinity is the opposite end of the scale from acidity, both of which are usually measured on the pH scale of 0 (very acid) to 14 (very alkaline). Neutral (neither acid nor alkaline) is 7, and the water we drink (as well as our body tissues) has a pH around that mark. There's no good reason to drink excessive amounts of water, and you may be doing that if you are adding two extra pints to a normal eating pattern. More important, why do you have indigestion? You should see your doctor about it for a rational assessment, diagnosis and treatment.

 

Dr. Tom Smith

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/30/diet-arthritis-alkaline-water

 

 

 

 

Did you know that water can be either naturally alkaline or artificially alkaline?

It's true. Naturally alkaline water has a chemical makeup that differs significantly from artificially alkaline water. More important, however, is the fact that artificially alkaline water causes side effects and should generally be avoided as a daily drinking water.

 

Dr. Andrew Iverson

http://www.aqualiv.com/education/65-alkaline-water-report

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the science is much more complicated than that…and drinking water from alkaline ionizers may do more harm than good.

 

Robert Slovak

Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineer, Robert Slovak has over 30 years of experience in the water treatment industry, specializing in membrane separation technology and products: Point-of-Use and Reverse Osmosis.

http://www.purative.com/2012/01/scientists-say-dont-be-duped-by-alkaline-water/

 

 

Unfounded Claims

Katherine Zeratsky, R.D, L.D., of the Mayo Clinic says that even though proponents claim alkaline water can neutralize acid and boost your energy level and metabolism, there are no clinical studies that have been able to substantiate these claims. According to Stephanie Vangsness, R.D., L.D., of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Brigham and Women's Hospital, most municipal water supplies provide water with small amounts of alkaline and there may be no need to use an ionizer to distort the pH.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/370249-what-are-the-dangers-in-drinking-alkaline-water/

 

[Kemp]

3. Cautions of Drinking Alkaline Water

There’s also the issue of water pH – acidic water versus alkaline water. There are a lot of amazing health assertions about alkaline water, but are they really true? Most of them aren’t. It is best to drink water that is between 6.5 and 8 pH levels. As for being harmful to drink alkaline water over the long run all we do know is that it has been shown to be harmful to plants and animals.

 

In the case of alkaline water that is naturally there is no problem in drinking up to 2 liters a day. Since the alkalinity is a result of naturally minerals such as magnesium and calcium, the body is capable of using these minerals if needs and discarding or storing any excess. You will not become too alkaline by drinking alkaline water that is naturally.

 

http://www.med-health.net/Alkaline-Water-Benefits.html

 

 

 

 

Bottled water doesn't offer any health advantage over British tap water, which is of very high quality and costs much less. Water is just water and has no magic ­ingredients. Drinking alkaline water does not protect you against excessive ­stomach acid, and suggesting that it promotes good health is medical nonsense. Our bodies have very ­efficient "­buffering" systems to e­nsure that our blood and ­tissues are kept at the right balance ­between acid and ­alkali. Alkalinity is the opposite end of the scale from acidity, both of which are usually measured on the pH scale of 0 (very acid) to 14 (very alkaline). Neutral (neither acid nor alkaline) is 7, and the water we drink (as well as our body tissues) has a pH around that mark. There's no good reason to drink excessive amounts of water, and you may be doing that if you are adding two extra pints to a normal eating pattern. More important, why do you have indigestion? You should see your doctor about it for a rational assessment, diagnosis and treatment.

 

Dr. Tom Smith

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/30/diet-arthritis-alkaline-water

 

 

 

 

Did you know that water can be either naturally alkaline or artificially alkaline?

It's true. Naturally alkaline water has a chemical makeup that differs significantly from artificially alkaline water. More important, however, is the fact that artificially alkaline water causes side effects and should generally be avoided as a daily drinking water.

 

Dr. Andrew Iverson

http://www.aqualiv.com/education/65-alkaline-water-report

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the science is much more complicated than that…and drinking water from alkaline ionizers may do more harm than good.

 

Robert Slovak

Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineer, Robert Slovak has over 30 years of experience in the water treatment industry, specializing in membrane separation technology and products: Point-of-Use and Reverse Osmosis.

http://www.purative.com/2012/01/scientists-say-dont-be-duped-by-alkaline-water/

 

 

Unfounded Claims

Katherine Zeratsky, R.D, L.D., of the Mayo Clinic says that even though proponents claim alkaline water can neutralize acid and boost your energy level and metabolism, there are no clinical studies that have been able to substantiate these claims. According to Stephanie Vangsness, R.D., L.D., of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Brigham and Women's Hospital, most municipal water supplies provide water with small amounts of alkaline and there may be no need to use an ionizer to distort the pH.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/370249-what-are-the-dangers-in-drinking-alkaline-water/

 

 

 

Well there are different school of thoughts and I would be alarmed if it was all one sided. Below are some of the proponents of alkaline ionized water. They come from all walks of life whether Asian or Caucasian, MD or nautropath, scientifically trained or not. I'll let you guys decide. However opponents of alkaline ionized water tends to Caucasian in general so I'll let the public join the dots.

 

 

"Alkaline water, produced by a water ionizer, has become the most important advancement in health care since Sir Alexander Fleming’s discovery of penicillin."- Dr. William D. Kelly, D.D.S., M.S - Administrator of College of Metabolic Medicine - Author, "Cancer Cure"

 

"International studies show that populations with little or no history of illness, such as cancer…, drink higher (pH) alkaline waters. After all potential risk factors were considered and factored out, it became evident that they had been drinking waters with a pH of 9.0 to 10.0."- Dr. Leonard Horowitz, D.M.D., M.A., M.P.H.- Author, "Aids and Ebola"

 

"Hexagonal (alkaline ionized) water moves easily within the cellular matrix of the body, helping with nutrient absorption and waste removal."- Professor Mu Shik Jhon, M.S, Ph.D.- Founding President of the Association of Academies of Sciences in Asia (AASA), 2^ndPresident of the Korean Academy of Science and Technology (KAST)

 

"I have had countless numbers of patients with painful osteoarthritis on many different medications for arthritis. Many have been pain free within a couple of months after adjusting their urine pH to 7.0 to 7.5 by consuming adequate amounts of alkaline water and alkaline foods. As a result, many are able to go off of their medications." - Dr. Don Colbert, M.D.- Author "7 Pillars of Health", “Get Healthy Through Detox and Fasting”

 

"I have administered over 5000 gallons of this water for about every health situation imaginable. I feel that restructured alkaline water can benefit everyone." - Dr Theodore A. Baroody, M.A., D.C., N.D., Ph.D., Dipl. Acu.- Author "Alkalize or Die"

 

"Alkaline water rids the body of acid waste... After carefully evaluating the results of my advice to hundreds of individuals, I'm convinced that toxicity in the form of acidic waste is the primary cause of degenerative disease." - Dr. Sherry Rogers, M.D.- Fellow of the American College of Allergy and Immunology- Author of “Detoxify or Die”, “Pain Free”

 

"Drinking four to six glasses of alkaline water a day will help to neutralize over acidity and over time will help to restore your buffering ability. Alkaline water should be used when conditions of over acidity develop, such as cold, flu or bronchitis. Like vitamins C, and Beta Carotene, alkaline water acts as an antioxidant because of its excess supply of free electrons. This can help the body against the development of heart disease, strokes, immune dysfunctions, and other common ailments." - Dr. Susan M. Lark, M.D. - University lecturer at UT Southwestern Medical Center- Author of "The Chemistry Of Success"

 

"You do not need expensive medicine with all the negative side effects to regain health... Alkaline water has profound long term effects because it alkalizes your body and provides an effective antioxidant."- Dr. Ingfreid Hobert M.D., Ph.D.- Founder of the "quality circle Ethnomedicine" of the Hannover Medical Association

 

"If someone was to ask me ‘what is the one thing I can do for better health?’ my answer would be to start drinking alkaline ionized water. Even if you are eating acidic foods the most important thing is to start putting in this electron rich alkaline fluid so you can neutralize the acidic foods you are eating."- Dr. Robert O. Young, M.S., D.Sc., PhD, N.D - Director of Research at the pH Miracle Center, California - Author "The pH Miracle" series

 

"After years of very positive continuous clinical experiment that I am conducting with hundreds of clients using electronically restructured alkaline water, it is my opinion that this technology will change the way in which all health providers and the public will approach their health in the coming years....My suggestion is to drink restructured alkaline water whenever possible." - Professor Felicia Drury Climent,- Adjunct Professor of City College, New York- Author "The Acid-Alkaline Balance Diet

 

"Bad diets such as meat and potatoes, fried foods, soft drink colas, and sugars build up acid salts in the body. Often these deposits, by having to be stored away from the blood flow, can remain in the body for decades. He recommends the consumption of ionized alkaline water, which will slowly and gently wash these salts away." - Dr. Hidemitsu Hayashi, M.D.- Director of the Water Institute, Tokyo

 

"It is widely recognized in the medical profession that a healthy and clean colon is one of the most important precursors to good health and that the great majority of body ailments and diseases originate in an acidic and dirty colon. Water is essential for your health. Drinking “good water;" especially hard water (rich in minerals) which has much calcium and magnesium keeps your body at an optimal alkaline PH." - Dr. Hiromi Shinya, M.D.- Director, Shinya Medical Clinic, New York, Clinical Professor of Surgery at Yeshiva University, New York- Author of “Enzyme Factor”

 

"If the blood develops a more acidic condition, then these excess acidic wastes have to be deposited somewhere in the body. If this unhealthy process continues year after year, ...This is the beginning of cancer." "Modern medicine.. treats these malignant cells as if they were bacteria and viruses, it uses chemotherapy, radiation and surgery to treat cancer. Yet none of these treatments will help very much if the environment of the body continues to remain acidic." - Dr Keiichi Morishita, M.D., Ph.D.- Director of Ochanomizu Clinic, Japan, Head of International Natural Medicine Association- Author of “The Hidden Truth of Cancer”

 

"The cells and fluids in most people's bodies...are overly acidic. This can cause a lot of health problems. It prevents your body from neutralizing and disposing of harmful, poisonous toxins and leaves you more susceptible to the cell-damaging free radical oxidation that leads to cancer and other diseases."- Dr. Robert C. Atkins, M.D.- Developed the “Atkins Diet”, Noted doctor and cardiologist- Author of “Atkins for Life: The Next Level”

 

"Here is the simple process of aging. Every living cell within our body creates waste products. ... Most of our cells go through metabolism and old dead cells become waste products... These waste products must be discharged from our body... The problem is that, due to several reasons, our body cannot get rid of 100% of the waste products it produces." "The main reason for this is our lifestyle. We, therefore, spend more time producing waste products than processing them." - Sang Whang, M.Eng.- Famed researcher, inventor - Author of “Reverse Aging”

 

"Alkalize your body and live a healthier, more energized, and ultimately more fulfilling life. Our acid-alkaline balance is a baseline determinant of our physical health."- Tony Robbins- Lifestyle Coach- Author of “Awaken the Giant Within”

 

“The most important feature of alkaline water produced by a water ionizer is its oxidation reduction potential (ORP). Water with a high negative ORP is of particular value in its ability to neutralize oxygen free radicals... These electrons are immediately available to engage in reactions that neutralize positively charged free radicals. This is the key benefit of water produced by a water ionizer that is not available by simply drinking water than has had some bicarbonate or other compounds dissolved in it to make it alkaline.”- Ray Kurzweil, Ph.D.- Inventor, Scientist, Technologist and holder of 16 honorary degrees- Author of “Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever”

 

"By drinking alkaline water, the aging process can be reversed and the wastes can be reduced in the long-term to a level of a much younger person. The functions of the organs can be revived."- Harald Tietze- Expert on natural herbal medicine- Author of “Youthing”

 

"The hydrating capacity of water can be enhanced by adding a structuring agent. The structuring formula is composed of ionic minerals that organize and reduce the water molecules, holding them together in small clusters, to facilitate their flow through the cell membranes."- Christopher Vasey, N.D- Renowned Naturopath and Researcher- Author of “The Water Prescription”

 

 

“After years of very positive continuous clinical experiments that I am conducting with hundreds of clients using electronically restructured alkaline water, it is my opinion that this technology will change the way in which all health providers and the public will approach their health in coming years….My suggestion is to drink restructured alkaline water whenever possible.” Felicia Drury Climent Author The Acid Alkaline Balance Diet

 

“We talk a lot about Oxidation Reduction Potential and it’s huge, but lets not forget that we’re talking about alkaline water and if your asking which is more important, it is the ORP, but alkalinity is very important too. Everything in the body works better when the body is alkaline, enzymes work better and enzymes are necessary for most functions in the body even creating energy, even electricity. The electricity that all cells work on in the body, it’s essential that you have a alkaline environment. It limits how much energy or how fast the reactions can occur. If you don’t have the proper enzyme functions, and is to some degree the measure of alkalinity everything in the body works off of hormones too. You’ve got thyroid hormones, testoterone, estrogen, all the different hormones in the body. Alkalininty makes those work better.” Dr. Ben Johnson, MD, DO, ND Ex-Flight Surgeon

 

“Ionized alkaline antioxidant water improves body constituents and ensures effective healing to many illnesses. The uses of antioxidant water in gynecological patients have proved to be very effective. The main reason for its effectiveness is that this water can neutralize toxins.” “When given antioxidant water to pre-eclamptic toxemia cases, the results are most significant. During my long years of servicing the pre-eclamptic toxemia cases, I found that the women with pre-eclamptic toxemia who consumed antioxidant water tend to deliver healthier babies with stronger muscles. A survey report carried out on babies in this group showed intelligence above average.” Prof. Watanabe Ifao Watanabe Hospital [Head of Gynecology]

 

“As a Biological Medicine Physician, I have been measuring the levels of oxidation in the bodily fluids for about a decade using a very sophisticated piece of lab equipment called the QFA (Quantitative Fluid Analysis). Based on the rate of oxidation in these fluids this measurement device calculates a person’s biological age.”

“For most of people this biological age is generally 20-50 years older than their actual chronological age. Since it is our biological age that determines the length of our life, that number is quite significant. More than three years of testing and research have led me to the discovery that drinking reduced alkaline water is the most effective tool for quickly, easily and economically changing the rate of oxidation on cells that I have ever encountered.”

“As the cell walls of our body become oxidized, they become sticky and this prevents hydration of the body as well as nutrient absorption and cell waste to be expelled. The -ORP (Ed: Reduction Potential of the water) removes oxidation from the cell wall and allows for better hydration, and cell metabolism and overall cell health.” Dr. Peggy Parker

 

Best wishes

 

Gary

[DavidOh]

There is a need to differentiate Natural Alkaline Water (eg Mountain Spring Water) from Artificial Alkaline Water (Alkaline Water Machine System)

 

Appreciate if any quotes included clearly DO NOT include those for Natural Alkaline Water in support for Artificial Alkaline Water.

 

 

 

Did you know that water can be either naturally alkaline or artificially alkaline?

It's true. Naturally alkaline water has a chemical makeup that differs significantly from artificially alkaline water. More important, however, is the fact that artificially alkaline water causes side effects and should generally be avoided as a daily drinking water.

 

http://www.aqualiv.com/education/65-alkaline-water-report

 

 

 

More recent updates include the fact that ionizers produce Oxygen Hydroxide, not H2O. This is an alkali that irritates the body or immune system, and may explain why these appliances are classified as medical devices by the Japanese Ministry of Health, not household water filters. The ionized water is used in small amounts instead of chemotherapy to irritate the immune system to try to stimulate a response without the hair loss. The artificial alkalizing of fluids may have a short term benefit, however long term it can have very detrimental effects on the body. For this reason avoid even machine ionized reverse osmosis water.

 

http://www.ewater.com/article_acidalkalineionizers.aspx

 

 

 

 

With further reading and discussion, I am more convince that Natural Alkaline Water (Mountain Spring Water) is likely to be beneficial but whether it is necessary is debatable. However, as to Artificial Alkaline Water, consuming electrically or chemically produce alkaline water, there is corollary, would anybody willing to drink gallons of chemotherapy long term. The former appears significantly cheaper and definitely safer.

[Galantspeedz]

based on what has been debated, i think alkaline water is a good to have but not a must to have...

 

as for costs vs benefits... i guess it depends on individual

 

if i can get it at a super super super cheap prce, i may consider having one.... must be super super super super cheap... lol

[Kemp]

There is a need to differentiate Natural Alkaline Water (eg Mountain Spring Water) from Artificial Alkaline Water (Alkaline Water Machine System)

 

Appreciate if any quotes included clearly DO NOT include those for Natural Alkaline Water in support for Artificial Alkaline Water.

 

My points in blue

 

Personally I think you are missing the point by saying artificial alkaline water is by electrical current. Electricity is just another form of energy to used for certain purposes. Certain alkaline minerals such as tourmaline in alkaline springs (when pilgrimages are carried out) releases micro- electrical current which creates alkaline water with a -ve electrical charge. These waters are know to be healing waters for eons due to biological make up of the water content. Alkaline ionized water is no different.

 

We utilized electrical current in every daily aspects of our lives from the food we consume to the thing we use.

 

Again I point to you the humble Vitamin C. There is a natural form and an "artificial" form. Do they work on the human body? Most definitely.

 

In short natural alkaline water and "artificial" alkaline water is the same UNLESS to make the alkaline water chemicals are used. If you add soap into water you get alkaline water, it not electrical but hell toxic to humans lol. If you add sodium hypochlorite to a water ionizer and electrical current is used, the product is sodium hydroxide, which in a nutshell is similar to soap water. Electricity is not the creation of artificial alkalinity but rather what was added.

 

Did you know that water can be either naturally alkaline or artificially alkaline?

It's true. Naturally alkaline water has a chemical makeup that differs significantly from artificially alkaline water. More important, however, is the fact that artificially alkaline water causes side effects and should generally be avoided as a daily drinking water.

 

http://www.aqualiv.com/education/65-alkaline-water-report

 

What constitute to artificial? Selling ones water filter system while talking down on another system don't seem right. Kindly check out their testing methods too. I wonder if there are journals that they research this on...... http://www.aqualiv.com/ I would love to see evidence of side effects as mentioned.

 

More recent updates include the fact that ionizers produce Oxygen Hydroxide, not H2O. This is an alkali that irritates the body or immune system, and may explain why these appliances are classified as medical devices by the Japanese Ministry of Health, not household water filters. The ionized water is used in small amounts instead of chemotherapy to irritate the immune system to try to stimulate a response without the hair loss. The artificial alkalizing of fluids may have a short term benefit, however long term it can have very detrimental effects on the body. For this reason avoid even machine ionized reverse osmosis water.

 

http://www.ewater.com/article_acidalkalineionizers.aspx

 

Again similar to the above. USA is quite open in bashing other companies brand. I have never heard of oxygen hydroxide maybe if the author of that website can send me the formula for that equation.

 

 

With further reading and discussion, I am more convince that Natural Alkaline Water (Mountain Spring Water) is likely to be beneficial but whether it is necessary is debatable. However, as to Artificial Alkaline Water, consuming electrically or chemically produce alkaline water, there is corollary, would anybody willing to drink gallons of chemotherapy long term. The former appears significantly cheaper and definitely safer.

 

I think chemotherapy is quite outright ridiculous to be compared to alkaline ionized water. Chemo are chemicals and no way are they electrical. By the way we as living creatures have a positive and negative polarity, meaning to say we are able to conduct electrical currents, that natural right?

 

Best wishes

 

Gary

 

based on what has been debated, i think alkaline water is a good to have but not a must to have...

 

as for costs vs benefits... i guess it depends on individual

 

if i can get it at a super super super cheap prce, i may consider having one.... must be super super super super cheap... lol

 

Super cheap ones would be from Panasonic... check them out!

 

Cheers!

Edited August 14, 2014 by Kemp

[DavidOh]

Dear Gary,

 

Many thanks for your kind and often prompt reply. After reading extensively, many thanks to you, I have made an informed decision, that Artificial Alkaline Water, is not for me, my family or my friends.

 

As I mentioned before, I have no vested interested, except for a very selfish need to ensure that what I put into my mouth and eventually into the rest of my body (including my family and friends) must be safe, and unfortunately this is something that not everybody (at least most) believes and proven to be helpful. There is NO overwhelming support for artificial alkaline water in the scientific community. The unknown long term consequences of consuming artificial alkaline water is frightening. I rather risk without it and lead a normal lifespan and dreaming to be "healthier" (if it helps at all).

 

I am not here to be "one up against you" but that said I thank you for swaying me to be believe and be convince that my decision to stay away from Artificial Alkaline Water is correct.

 

If you are convince that Artificial Alkaline Water is beneficial to the human race and are drinking it including your family then it is your conviction.

 

I like to remember it this way, we are dealing with one's health, no universal concrete evidence of support for artificial alkaline water, unknown processes by different vendors, unknown long term effects on human and hence, it leaves me to wish you the best on your conviction and thank you for being patient.