Minimum Wage - your opinions please

[Jman888]

Hearing some comments here about minimum wage (MW) and Hong Kong has just approved the bill for MW.

 

Coming from business angle, MW increase operating cost, reduce competitiveness and it does not necessary increase productivity.

 

From employee angle, MW guarantee you are paid market rate (really?)

 

Who should benefit from MW, local or all works (even FW)?

 

Will it be abused? by both employer and employee?

 

Will it drive companies out result in more jobless?

 

Lets discuss!

 

 

Minimum wage not a solution

 

Overwhelming majority of MPs do not support minimum-wage law to help low-skilled and low-wage workers. -myp

 

Thu, Jan 13, 2011

my paper

 

BY REICO WONG

 

SHARING the fruits of Singapore's economic prosperity with low-skilled and low-wage workers remains a key priority for the Government, but an overwhelming majority of Members of Parliament yesterday reiterated the stand that the best way to do this is not through a minimum-wage law.

 

Instead, the consensus was that more concentrated efforts must be made to look into the various ways to help the less privileged in society, in order to narrow the widening income disparity.

 

This was the key thrust of a five-hour-long parliamentary debate yesterday, sparked off by a motion urging the Government to bring about more inclusive growth in Singapore society.

 

The MP for Bishan-Toa Payoh GRC and Assistant Secretary- General of NTUC, Ms Josephine Teo, pointed out that to be meaningful, a minimum wage must force some employers to pay more than the market rate, which would effectively have the same effect as a tax on employment.

 

"To survive, some of these workers will choose to work illegally below minimum wage, just as some choose to forgo CPF today.

 

Companies that do not wish to engage in the illegal practice (of paying below minimum wage) and find it too costly to operate in Singapore will close shop or relocate," she said.

 

"Restructuring and relocation are already happening. Introducing a minimum wage will accelerate the pace without sharpening our competitiveness."

 

In his speech, Manpower Minister Gan Kim Yong also argued that a minimum-wage policy runs counter to the Singapore work ethic and culture of self-reliance. "A guaranteed level of income may remove the incentive for training for less-productive workers," he said.

 

No single MP yesterday outrightly advocated a minimumwage policy as a silver-bullet solution.

 

However, Workers' Party chief Low Thia Khiang and Nominated MPs (NMPs) Paulin Tay Straughan and Viswa Sadasivan maintained that the option should be examined further.

 

Mr Low proposed that an advisory board be set up to undertake research on a recommended minimum wage for specific industries, based on consultation with employers and unions.

 

He explained that this not only will expose employers who are grossly underpaying their staff or have not upgraded their processes, but also inspire employees to upgrade their skills.

 

Some MPs, including Madam Halimah Yacob of Jurong GRC, pointed out that there were flaws in such a recommendation.

 

"The complexity is that in each sector there are different types of companies. Some can pay more, some can pay the minimum wage, some cannot," she said.

 

The MPs were strongly supportive of stepping up efforts to enhance workers' skills and raise productivity under current programmes like Workfare.

 

Workers would then be able to benefit through higher built-in pay and bonuses as companies become more competitive.

 

"We should continue to encourage people to fish for themselves instead of depending on others to fish for them, and we should help them to fish more effectively," said NMP Terry Lee.

 

A variety of other initiatives were also suggested yesterday, including increasing the CPF cash payout under the Workfare scheme and the frequency of payouts.

 

MPs weigh in on controversy

 

ON EXPLOITATION AND ABUSE

 

"The reality is this: Minimum wage does not stop the exploitation and abuse of workers.

 

Studies have shown that in countries where (the) unemployment rate is very high, many workers are prepared to accept work that pay less than the minimum wage, and they won't complain to the authorities...because, then, somebody else will do the job.

 

Studies have also shown that minimum wage is not a wage leveller because the wages set by governments are very much below the market rate."

 

Madam Halimah Yacob, deputy secretary-general of the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC)

 

ON ADDITIONAL BUSINESS COST

 

"A minimum wage will become an additional cost of business, paid by employers who, in turn, will either 1) pass on the cost of business to customers, causing further increase in the cost of living; or 2) become even more cautious, especially in hiring those who are less skilled or able, or (those) undergoing training and who are not fully competent yet."

 

Ms Denise Phua, MP for Jalan Besar GRC

 

ON PROPOSAL TO SET UP ADVISORY BOARD

 

"If our low-wage workers are still not upgraded despite productivity growth and continuing education and training, minimum wages may have to be considered... The Government should work, with the various industries, to set tangible wage benchmarks for workers to strive towards.

 

I propose a recommended minimum-wage advisory board to be set up by the Government, to undertake research on the recommended minimum wage for specific industries, employers and unions."

 

Mr Low Thia Khiang, MP for Hougang

 

ON ENSURING FAIR WAGE

 

"Without a minimum-wage guideline, how do we ensure that low-wage workers are not exploited? ...How do we ensure that employers do not take advantage of the generosity of the Government's initiatives that are supported by public funds?

 

"We must ensure that businesses functioning within a healthy profit margin pay their workers a fair wage."

 

Associate Professor Paulin Tay Straughan, Nominated MP

 

ON SINGAPORE'S VERSION OF MINIMUM WAGE

 

"The Workfare Income Supplement scheme is our version of the minimum wage... The beauty of it is (that) the money doesn't come from employers, but (from) the Government."

 

Mr Lim Swee Say, secretary-general of NTUC and Minister in the Prime Minister's Office

[Galantspeedz]

Hearing some comments here about minimum wage (MW) and Hong Kong has just approved the bill for MW.

 

Coming from business angle, MW increase operating cost, reduce competitiveness and it does not necessary increase productivity.

 

From employee angle, MW guarantee you are paid market rate (really?)

 

NOPE! In fact, it may be used as a gauge of market rate and lower it in fact.

 

Who should benefit from MW, local or all works (even FW)?

 

FT - they will earn more, most SG are already earning above MW

 

Will it be abused? by both employer and employee?

 

Depending on how it works. But there should be some level of abuse

 

Will it drive companies out result in more jobless?

 

Maybe. due to increase in cost especially for small companies

 

Lets discuss!

 

[Babyt]

benefits the companies but not the workers....and its not surprised since our gov runs the country like a biz organisation.

[Jman888]

for FT or skilled worker, why do you need MW??

 

the market demand will determine the rate and if you are in the market for sometime, do you need a MW to determine your value?

Edited January 13, 2011 by Jman888

[Jman888]

benefits the companies but not the workers....and its not surprised since our gov runs the country like a biz organisation.

 

 

you mean minimum wage will benefit companies??

[SimonTan]

If got minimum wage....many families that has maids will be FARKED!

Imagine $4minimum across the board.

maid works like 10hours for 30days??

$4 X 10hrs X 30 days = S$1200.

 

Are we ready for minimum wage really?

I think this could be one of the reasons why gov die die cannot allow.

 

As it is...many pinoy maids are asking WHY their embassy contracts state $600 as the salary, and yet many only getting $350.

My maid is going back in two months time, because she feels that she was not getting the $600 promised in her contract!

 

 

 

[Dj_spike]

Indon maids have minimum wage liowz... not too sure abt the rest

[Kangadrool]

More important to control the inflow of FT/FW than setting minimum wage. Over supply of foreigners depress local wage market.

 

Rough rule of thumb, we should not have more than 2 foreigners for every 10 locals (Singaporeans not SPR).

 

A tower crane operator can easily earn more than $5K previously. But, with the influx of foreigners, it is so low now that it is barely sustainable for a local.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Kangadrool

[Joseph22]

We shouldnt habe MW. What we should have is remove the 1 sin can hire 5 fw rule.

Change it to 1 sing hire 1 fw. But gahmen wont do it cause they want to hire fw in their states board.

[Gearoil]

How do you term your gov is 'caring' or not :

 

Min wage is obviously a disadvantage to both the gov, employer and the need to attract foreign investment into their country.

 

The only advantage is to those who can't earn well, this ensure that with a constantly adjusted Min wage, these ppl could cope with their living expenses.

 

But in Sinkland, there is neithier a good welfare system ( or a welfare sum sufficient to meet min living standard of that country) or a Min wage scheme.

 

This points to the fact that the gov really 'don't give a damn' to those who 'can't put up their socks' and make a better living, by be able to earn a higher wage against their inflation rate within their country.

 

So if you are a 'so so' in Sinkland, earning a thereabout wage thru out your life time not exceeding $10k/mth. You better save a lot on your own or you will die...die.... find out in the last years of your remaining life, scrimping whatever money you have left and/or walking the streets for welfare.

 

Don't say I didn't warn you and the others

[Mockngbrd]

maximum wage can arnot? for ministar

[Joseph22]

Gearoil Well said in forthe first 4 paragraph. Good stuff.

Why you not at the coe thread huh?? Need your support 2 days back.

[Gearoil]

Gearoil Well said in forthe first 4 paragraph. Good stuff.

Why you not at the coe thread huh?? Need your support 2 days back.

 

In Sinkland whatever the Papies want to do or how they thinks is the way they want to do it ( to benefit their system, thereby benefiting each of them), no petition or voice will change that.

 

I thought rational Sinkies would have learnt this long..long ago in the galaxy.

 

What 'smart' ppl can do is to beat the system ( of course legally lah) and earn more then what the system demands out of you!

 

This is the only way ( for more resourceful and having the means kind of Sinkie lah) to escape the wrath of what the system dishes out.

 

Hope you 'get the meaning'

 

[Vhtfhwlego]

MW is nothing if without welfare given from the Government..

[Watwheels]

How do you term your gov is 'caring' or not :

 

Min wage is obviously a disadvantage to both the gov, employer and the need to attract foreign investment into their country.

 

The only advantage is to those who can't earn well, this ensure that with a constantly adjusted Min wage, these ppl could cope with their living expenses.

 

But in Sinkland, there is neithier a good welfare system ( or a welfare sum sufficient to meet min living standard of that country) or a Min wage scheme.

 

This points to the fact that the gov really 'don't give a damn' to those who 'can't put up their socks' and make a better living, by be able to earn a higher wage against their inflation rate within their country.

 

So if you are a 'so so' in Sinkland, earning a thereabout wage thru out your life time not exceeding $10k/mth. You better save a lot on your own or you will die...die.... find out in the last years of your remaining life, scrimping whatever money you have left and/or walking the streets for welfare.

 

Don't say I didn't warn you and the others

 

But you forget to say what happens if there's a so call "good welfare system" or MW scheme.

 

Ppl will just stop working hard or work OT cos they have made enough for themselves to meet the min living standard. That's when Sinkland will literally sink and its ppl to sink faster.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Watwheels

[Jman888]

Ok saw some posts on limiting the FW so that local are given job on reasonable (cos FW asking for much less)....

 

This is fair to the extend when a company is making profit, some SME use FW for cost saving that allow the company to float.... if MW apply to all companies, then the small will surely gone...

 

With more job rejected by the local, many FW come in at lower cost, however, if they know that they are in demand, wouldn't the wages increase after a while?

[Jman888]

But you forget to say what happens if there's a so call "good welfare system" or MW scheme.

 

Ppl will just stop working hard or work OT cos they have made enough for themselves to meet the min living standard. That's when Sinkland will literally sink and its ppl to sink faster.

 

 

agree... with minimum wage, worker are guarantee without need to upgrade their skill. or the upgraded asking for higher wages..... that will be double impact!

 

[Jman888]

How do you term your gov is 'caring' or not :

 

Min wage is obviously a disadvantage to both the gov, employer and the need to attract foreign investment into their country.

 

The only advantage is to those who can't earn well, this ensure that with a constantly adjusted Min wage, these ppl could cope with their living expenses.

 

But in Sinkland, there is neithier a good welfare system ( or a welfare sum sufficient to meet min living standard of that country) or a Min wage scheme.

 

This points to the fact that the gov really 'don't give a damn' to those who 'can't put up their socks' and make a better living, by be able to earn a higher wage against their inflation rate within their country.

 

So if you are a 'so so' in Sinkland, earning a thereabout wage thru out your life time not exceeding $10k/mth. You better save a lot on your own or you will die...die.... find out in the last years of your remaining life, scrimping whatever money you have left and/or walking the streets for welfare.

 

Don't say I didn't warn you and the others

 

the first few points like do will die, dun do also die....

 

then your last point basically ask half the population to go to hell [laugh]