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"New Zealand" is 纽西兰 or 新西兰???


Lurpsexx
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what are you talking about? the issue here is the standard of romanisation applied in practised. it is not about singlish vs the queen's english oh please.

 

What he's trying to say - (I think)

 

Is that here in Singapore we should follow the "accepted" international Chinese pronounciation. It shouldn't be that there is a different Chinese name for any country between China and Singapore. If a different name has arisen* because of a b------dised version of Chinese used in Singapore, then it is highly inappropriate.

 

And further, it is the start of a decline of the language of Singapore into something that will not be internationally accepted or understood.

 

* I am not saying this is the case - my language skills are certainly not of a standard to even allow me to take notes at the table of such a discussion - I am saying "if"

 

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wa ei sai kong tng nang la peng yu...tampo nia...ei sai tia e sai kong.....wa peng yu long chong tng nang lei!

ei sai bue? wa kong kokkien! [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

sori hor...wa ai pang hokkien...mng si kokkien.

 

 

wah................knn..................li an ni kuan sia...........si li a hokkian bian tok kong...... [thumbsup] ......wah sorry sorry..........li mai siew kee ok..........li di si wu eng.....wah chia li lim kopi.............. [laugh] [laugh]

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What he's trying to say - (I think)

 

Is that here in Singapore we should follow the "accepted" international Chinese pronounciation. It shouldn't be that there is a different Chinese name for any country between China and Singapore. If a different name has arisen* because of a b------dised version of Chinese used in Singapore, then it is highly inappropriate.

 

And further, it is the start of a decline of the language of Singapore into something that will not be internationally accepted or understood.

 

* I am not saying this is the case - my language skills are certainly not of a standard to even allow me to take notes at the table of such a discussion - I am saying "if"

 

don't worry, my view of the issue at hand is not concerning linguistics. as such, your command of the language does not in any case, preclude or exclude you from adding your 2 cents. In any case, my feel is that you are probably eating humble pie for it is likely that your command of the language is not as bad as you put it.

 

Like i mentioned, this is not a case rooted in the arena of linguistics for to me, i see it as a interplay of social forces. a bunch of fob-ers comes into a well established community (with its nuances and set of practices) and start calling the shots. if you ask me, this is a case of assimilation vs acculturation. Herein, my perspective is borne out of and guided by the sociological point of view.

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if this not for us to decide the romanisation standard as individuals on behalf of a community, who are they (those fob china chinese) to decide?

 

after all, it is important to note that prior to the introduction of hanyu pinyin in 1970s, there was not a formally ratified standard of romanisation applied to mandarin chinese.

 

in fact, there were alot of rumbling resentment when the authorities decided to change the term of reference of certain places to comply with hanyu pinyin. e.g. nee soon to yishun and aokang to hougang. and may j point out, there are still plenty of ambiguities e.g. sengkang etc

 

the main land chinese decides for china..................our gov here decides for sg.............MOE decides what to teach in school........you sld go to MOE or schools to ask them abt it..........ask them why are textbooks printed with main land chinese...............not me...........

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The really big question is -

 

Which is the "correct" version?

 

to my mind it is not acceptable for EITHER side to say - well this is the way we say it, so this is the way it should be.

 

Instead, it should be determined which is the acceptable, correct and preferred translation, and then BOTH countries should follow.

 

Dui bu dui?

 

What would be an interesting question, would be to explore how the two different versions came about.

 

Has either version ever been "approved" and by whom? It is easy to imagine that the New Zealand consul to Singapore approved Niu Xi Lan while the New Zealand Ambassador to China approved Xin Xi Lan. It is also easy to believe that some mook somewhere in a radio office just decided and propagated a partiuclar pronounciation without any input from anywhere.

 

At the end of the day - I couldn't imagine going to England, and instead of being a New Zealander, all of a sudden I am a Freshlander. And then popping across to Australia and becoming a Knee Zealander.

 

In short, there should be one accepted Han Yu Pin Yin and Character version of New Zealand, and all Mandarin speakers should follow that one pronounciation.

 

If, and only if, it were to turn out that Chan Brothers had gone to the New Zealand Consulate (or Trade Development Board or wherever) and had been told the Mandarin version of New Zealand was Xin Xi Lan, then they are correct to be using it - no matter what anybody in Singapore likes to call the place. BUT, if Chan Brothers have used a "FOB Mainlander" to do the translation in contravention of local practises and the accepted version then I need to put my boot right where the sun don't shine for the ad agency account manager.

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the main land chinese decides for china..................our gov here decides for sg.............MOE decides what to teach in school........you sld go to MOE or schools to ask them abt it..........ask them why are textbooks printed with main land chinese...............not me...........

 

I really can't accept such a thing -

 

If you follow this reasoning, you are basically saying that in Australia you would be a Shingaporean, in England, you are a Sangapoorean, in America you are a Seengapuran.

 

That can't be correct right? Here and in China you are both supposed to speak the same language. Naturally there will be variations in pronounciation depending uppon regional accents, this is unavoidable (and is also a part of national identity) - but at the same time we should strive to get as close as we can to an "accepted" (or at least, acceptable) standard version.

 

When I first came here, people would ask where I was from - when I replied Xin Xi Lan they had no idea what the fark I was talking about (although admittedly this could be as much about my accent as anything else). But the upshot would be - is this really a good thing to happen?

 

Now one place name is really no big deal - but once you start a convention like this, whereby Singapore develops their own version of Chinese aside from the one spoken by more than a billion people, well then you are getting into problems.

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wah................knn..................li an ni kuan sia...........si li a hokkian bian tok kong...... [thumbsup] ......wah sorry sorry..........li mai siew kee ok..........li di si wu eng.....wah chia li lim kopi.............. [laugh] [laugh]

aiyah bo pien ar! wa kong tampo nia.... ok lu ngiam wa kopi...kinnit wa bo eng...wa wu eng wa kio li

ei sai bue? [;)]

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Recently all media used the term 新西兰 as new zealand and 澳大利亚 as australia. I heard this is the correct way, as the so-called "old names" are not their official name?!

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aiyah bo pien ar! wa kong tampo nia.... ok lu ngiam wa kopi...kinnit wa bo eng...wa wu eng wa kio li

ei sai bue? [;)]

 

holy beejeez [dizzy] us [wave]

 

I have been here way tooooo long.

 

can actually unnerstand some of this......

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印尼 also change to 印度尼西亚 liao

 

Change or corrected?

 

i remember one case back home where one of our mountains was named and pronounced wrongly. it had to be corrected via a massive correction campaign.

 

There is also a growing movement in the US to correct the perceptions and associations of the swastica.

 

Just because we learned it that way, doesn't mean it is correct (mind you, it doesn't make it wrong either)

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I really can't accept such a thing -

 

If you follow this reasoning, you are basically saying that in Australia you would be a Shingaporean, in England, you are a Sangapoorean, in America you are a Seengapuran.

 

That can't be correct right? Here and in China you are both supposed to speak the same language. Naturally there will be variations in pronounciation depending uppon regional accents, this is unavoidable (and is also a part of national identity) - but at the same time we should strive to get as close as we can to an "accepted" (or at least, acceptable) standard version.

 

When I first came here, people would ask where I was from - when I replied Xin Xi Lan they had no idea what the fark I was talking about (although admittedly this could be as much about my accent as anything else). But the upshot would be - is this really a good thing to happen?

 

Now one place name is really no big deal - but once you start a convention like this, whereby Singapore develops their own version of Chinese aside from the one spoken by more than a billion people, well then you are getting into problems.

 

 

well...........this started more like a political thread which i have no intention to get too involve........................but your point is valid...........why i asked him to check with MOE is simply because ....................if we look at names.............internationally the name of a country is well accepted in english...........go to anywhere who speaks english and tell them new zealand or for that matter any country in english........chances are you get understood..........

 

Now back to chinese.............who on the whole earth now has the most chinese population and and how powerful is that place glowing???.............

 

almost every country need to communicate with them in term of production............with everyone having to communicate with them............isn't it right to standardize the language?..........

 

the only thing that does not change is change itself............what wrong is there to have a standard name for all???...............it is a matter of time for ppl to accept that it is a new name....................like it or not the Gov and the world so to speak has decided to change it...........why do we have to make so much noise over it............

 

take for example..........30 over years back.................when the Gov decides to adjust our time one hour earlier to match that of Malaysia, are there ppl who still wakes up one hour earlier to go to work???............

 

just a few years later..................SG decides that malaysia RM cannot be used in SG as the same value anymore..................do we happily accept RM as we used to..................

 

my point is there is no choice..............they are the biggest chinese population in the world................who else can decides a chinese name???.............

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Look up united nations constitution and you will find Chinese is an official language, and Chinese is represented by PRC since 1970s. Not happy then somebody like George E.g. Bush will start a war to correct it. There's no right or wrong, just whether it suits the contemporary needs.

 

Australia in 19th century is called 新金山.

 

Also, Simplified Chinese is not entirely created by commies, they are not so smart. Its work started by ROC, adopting Japanese and Chinese caoshu methods and formalized by PRC.

 

you know something? when you romanise a language, you are essentially trying to express the term of reference in its native language in another secondary language. you seem to be very beholdened to the question of who exactly is/are the custodians of the Chinese Language. Having said that, how you romanise Mandarin Chinese should not be viewed as the exclusive prerogative of just the Chinese Language. How about the secondary language which one is languishing (yes i meant the pun) to romanise to?

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aiyah bo pien ar! wa kong tampo nia.... ok lu ngiam wa kopi...kinnit wa bo eng...wa wu eng wa kio li

ei sai bue? [;)]

 

 

ok ok..............li wu wah a qiu dian wei ho pey tio boh............ai lim kopi ka dian wei hall wah............. :D :D

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under the invasion of the PRC in newscasting and journal report, we are now having official China TV station in singapore.

 

Australia = 澳大利亚

New Zealand = 新西兰

 

In office with PRC colleagues, I always make sure I use 澳州 or 紐西蘭, just to let them know where they are.

 

Ha... nice one.

 

Thinking seriously about this 'change', I honestly think the Chinese screwed up on this one.

 

They cannot use 'meaning' to translate for names. I mean, "John" is translated as yue han and Susan is translated as Su San... how can they account fo such? Even the "Zealand" in "New Zealand" reamains as a phoenics translation. Just because they (now) know what "new" means in English doesn't mean that the names of places/country should get 'corrected' like this.

 

If they are that right to "correct" the names of countries from the knowledge of what some english words mean, then I should also think that they would be equally open to the english speaking countries "correcting" their country name from 'China' to 'Middle Country'

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