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Ticklish8
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How can we do that? So next time if train or buses too crowded, we also apply this rule of citizen first, PR and foreigner last?

 

Agree with Roh96. Every donkey thing also citizen first will definitely develop into some lousy caste system. This cannot happen in Singapore.

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Supercharged

Any chance of Cat A exceeding Cat B?

 

Maybe if orders must be fufilled?

Those who ordered C180 will be upgraded to C200 with a small token. <_<

 

the gap will close but not overtake CatB.

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Loan? I don't think so. Talk to a fren from LTA. When previously car buyer was only allowed to take 70 percent loan, few car dealers circumvent that by offering bridging loan. Won't mention the car dealer. As a result they liberalize the loan quantum, ie they allow the zero cash, 100 percent car loan.

 

If a policy is set in place, the policing done properly and the penalty severe, you'll see the dealers falling in line. Its like the $100 casino levy. We know there will ways the operators try to get around it and there are... but by and large people still pay to get in.

 

 

Car interest 5%? I don't think so also. With the current low interest rate, no banks will allow that, MAS will not dictate interest rate, they will let market decide, same like property.

 

Dun you know the base interest rates is actually set by MAS. All the interest rates of currencies in the world are set by the governments of the countries. MAS had, has, is and will continue to influence interest rates. It is what they do. As for whether it will happen, its a matter of whether the Singaporean gov wants to do it or not.

 

3 won't work because it will be to prescriptive and difficult to implement. By the way there is 35,000 individual in Singapore that own two car or more. In total these individual own 75,991 cars....

 

I see the 35000 number, but I dun understand your point. Could you elaborate a bit please. Wouldnt the removal of these 35000 cars be slots for others?

 

Isnt COE prescriptive by nature? Lets not stop ourselves from doing the right things just because it is difficult. The implementation and execution of ERP is also difficult. see how we made that work?

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Best way to control car population while ensuring that the cost of living and the debt burden per capital is lowered is:

 

1) Allow loan to be taken for 50% of value of car (nett COE), so COE must be paid upfront

2) Make car interest rate 5%

3) Road tax and COE for 2nd car in the same core family be 50% more

 

With the above system, only those who can pay for the COE in cash plus another 50% of car in cash then only can buy. Meaning you have to be quite cash rich to buy. This would give rise to different kind of unhappiness right? The less rich are being legally prevented from buying a car. And this would even MORE highlight the rich-poor divide, right. With current system, even the not-so-rich can still buy a car if he confident to service the loan and the bank don't mind to give him the loan.

 

Not only that. Say a rich guy wants to buy a Lambo Aventador, he must come out $750k in cash when he can in fact use this cash for better investment elsewhere? That's not smart right?

 

Under the currenty system the loan is between the buyer and the bank. If the buyer and the bank ok with the loan, why should govt stop them? Must govt regulate EVERYTHING?? Can't people take responsiblilty for themselves? I am sure banks have a robust credit system to protect themselves. I can't understand ppl always wanting to govt to control them. You guys want to give up your freedom?

 

Making the car interest rate 5% only benefits the banks. Yes it may discourage ppl to buy car due to high interest but high COE also discourages ppl to buy car right? Isn't it the same effect? Might as well stick to COE where at least the money goes to govt who can channel it to help the less fortunate (i am not a cynic that will say govt pocket the money). The banks are doing very well already, they don't need your help, thank you very much. Btw, why nobody say as property cooling measure govt should raise property interest to 5% also?

 

Rule 3 is probably not a good idea too. In a household of 4 working adults, each having their own need for a car and you want to penalise the 2nd owner (and maybe the 3rd and 4th as well) and then what? The first owner has to compensate the 2nd owner since he got the car cheaper? You want more family arguments?

 

Just tweak the COE to (1) remove taxis from Cat A (2) adopt the pay-what-u-bid system and (3) give 30%-40% discount for weekend COE.

 

Other things to consider: set aside maybe 20 COEs every month for those "poor but really need a car" group. These COEs will at a significant discount of normal COE and successful applicants only allowed to buy vehicles other than those in Cat B or E and which OMV is not above $20k. Applicant must submit their application stating their reason that they need a car. These cars cannot be resold (so as to ensure they don't profit from it) or rented out. Applicants must scrap the car or drive until COE expire. Upon scrapping, refund of PARF, balance of COE applies.

 

 

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Agree with Roh96. Every donkey thing also citizen first will definitely develop into some lousy caste system. This cannot happen in Singapore.

 

That's the problem with the thinking nowadays. They expect to be spoonfed and protected. Don't want to work hard.

 

Might as well also apply to food court, restaurant, cinemas, etc. Have different queue for SC and non-SC. Non-SC can only go in if the SC queue is cleared. In case the SC starve top death. Make sure SC get to watch the latest block buster first. When store having sale, also must have separate queue so that SC can get the best bargains first. Non-SC only allowed to come in on the 3rd day of the sale and on different queue.

 

Really sick of all this stupidity.

 

 

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With the above system, only those who can pay for the COE in cash plus another 50% of car in cash then only can buy. Meaning you have to be quite cash rich to buy. This would give rise to different kind of unhappiness right? The less rich are being legally prevented from buying a car. And this would even MORE highlight the rich-poor divide, right. With current system, even the not-so-rich can still buy a car if he confident to service the loan and the bank don't mind to give him the loan.

 

Not only that. Say a rich guy wants to buy a Lambo Aventador, he must come out $750k in cash when he can in fact use this cash for better investment elsewhere? That's not smart right?

 

Under the currenty system the loan is between the buyer and the bank. If the buyer and the bank ok with the loan, why should govt stop them? Must govt regulate EVERYTHING?? Can't people take responsiblilty for themselves? I am sure banks have a robust credit system to protect themselves. I can't understand ppl always wanting to govt to control them. You guys want to give up your freedom?

 

Making the car interest rate 5% only benefits the banks. Yes it may discourage ppl to buy car due to high interest but high COE also discourages ppl to buy car right? Isn't it the same effect? Might as well stick to COE where at least the money goes to govt who can channel it to help the less fortunate (i am not a cynic that will say govt pocket the money). The banks are doing very well already, they don't need your help, thank you very much. Btw, why nobody say as property cooling measure govt should raise property interest to 5% also?

 

Rule 3 is probably not a good idea too. In a household of 4 working adults, each having their own need for a car and you want to penalise the 2nd owner (and maybe the 3rd and 4th as well) and then what? The first owner has to compensate the 2nd owner since he got the car cheaper? You want more family arguments?

 

Just tweak the COE to (1) remove taxis from Cat A (2) adopt the pay-what-u-bid system and (3) give 30%-40% discount for weekend COE.

 

Other things to consider: set aside maybe 20 COEs every month for those "poor but really need a car" group. These COEs will at a significant discount of normal COE and successful applicants only allowed to buy vehicles other than those in Cat B or E and which OMV is not above $20k. Applicant must submit their application stating their reason that they need a car. These cars cannot be resold (so as to ensure they don't profit from it) or rented out. Applicants must scrap the car or drive until COE expire. Upon scrapping, refund of PARF, balance of COE applies.

 

regarding the taxi COE.. which has been argued to death..

how do you remove a quota that aims to control vehicle population when these vehicles in question (taxis) use the same roads and have no dedicated lane???

 

also, removing taxi COE into a seperate category has its problems too

since total number of COE is fixed, such a move is taking away perhaps 5% of supply but only removing less than 1% of the bidding population

 

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people buying new cars because newer design and features.

but because of the restriction of COE stay with the car, that why people bid for new COE.

if only COE and car these components can be separate out.

 

etc: 5yrs old car wty over, car condition not so good or high mileages le. scare heavy repair cost. why cannot allow people carry over the remaining COE over to the new car? the figure of cars also won't increase

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Turbocharged

They keep on reducing the quota for COE.

 

They better make sure the MRT is robust enough to take the extra load.

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Actually I'm perfectly fine with the rich and poor divide.

It helps to highlight all the wannabes who want a car real bad but cannot have one.

Let's say you're well dressed and driving round town in a BMW coupe, suddenly next to you a guy poorly dressed driving the same car as you pulls up along side with you. I swear you'd go OMG my car is no longer exclusive! I won't want that.

That's another reason why I'm against a full loan. It not only allows more cars to be added to the ever growing population of cars with ease, it no longer makes a car exclusive.

In fact there's almost nothing that can be used to differentiate you and another guy driving the same car as you.

The only consolation is that you can say that the car belongs to you and not the bank or some financial institution.

 

I heard the most ludicrous thing the other day.

Some NS guy took a massive loan for a bike that only cost 2500 over a period of 2 years. WTF??

Eventually after he calculated his installments, he will be paying close to 5000 for the bike.

What ever happened to saving up for something you want?

Save a few months of NS pay can get the bike already.

 

Sadly most singaporeans don't realise how much extra they're paying when they take a loan for a car.

In other words cannot afford don't buy, don't add on to the ever growing population of cars.

 

Then again, those who really cannot afford it will have their cars repossessed and it's a good opportunity for people who can afford a car to get these cars at a bargain.

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They keep on reducing the quota for COE.

 

They better make sure the MRT is robust enough to take the extra load.

 

Quotas have to reduced further lah ... look at the jams on the roads everyday .... driving home from 5 to 8 pm on a weekday is terrible ... hardly gets a "jam free" drive home ..... lets not forget that the correction of the overprojection and release of quotas have not happen yet.

 

Whatever it is .... I felt that taxi should not be in CAT A but they should be in CAT C .... afterall they are commerical vehicles. The prices of CAT A COE are always being pushed up at the last few mins during the fortnightly biddings.

 

 

 

 

 

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With the above system, only those who can pay for the COE in cash plus another 50% of car in cash then only can buy. Meaning you have to be quite cash rich to buy. This would give rise to different kind of unhappiness right? The less rich are being legally prevented from buying a car. And this would even MORE highlight the rich-poor divide, right. With current system, even the not-so-rich can still buy a car if he confident to service the loan and the bank don't mind to give him the loan.

 

Not only that. Say a rich guy wants to buy a Lambo Aventador, he must come out $750k in cash when he can in fact use this cash for better investment elsewhere? That's not smart right?

 

Under the currenty system the loan is between the buyer and the bank. If the buyer and the bank ok with the loan, why should govt stop them? Must govt regulate EVERYTHING?? Can't people take responsiblilty for themselves? I am sure banks have a robust credit system to protect themselves. I can't understand ppl always wanting to govt to control them. You guys want to give up your freedom?

 

Making the car interest rate 5% only benefits the banks. Yes it may discourage ppl to buy car due to high interest but high COE also discourages ppl to buy car right? Isn't it the same effect? Might as well stick to COE where at least the money goes to govt who can channel it to help the less fortunate (i am not a cynic that will say govt pocket the money). The banks are doing very well already, they don't need your help, thank you very much. Btw, why nobody say as property cooling measure govt should raise property interest to 5% also?

 

Rule 3 is probably not a good idea too. In a household of 4 working adults, each having their own need for a car and you want to penalise the 2nd owner (and maybe the 3rd and 4th as well) and then what? The first owner has to compensate the 2nd owner since he got the car cheaper? You want more family arguments?

 

Just tweak the COE to (1) remove taxis from Cat A (2) adopt the pay-what-u-bid system and (3) give 30%-40% discount for weekend COE.

 

Other things to consider: set aside maybe 20 COEs every month for those "poor but really need a car" group. These COEs will at a significant discount of normal COE and successful applicants only allowed to buy vehicles other than those in Cat B or E and which OMV is not above $20k. Applicant must submit their application stating their reason that they need a car. These cars cannot be resold (so as to ensure they don't profit from it) or rented out. Applicants must scrap the car or drive until COE expire. Upon scrapping, refund of PARF, balance of COE applies.

 

Most of your points makes sense and provides some views from another angle. Esp the interest part. For that I have no reply.

 

 

However I find it very very hard to empathize with someone who can't put their more money down on the downpayment yet want to own a car. If you can truly afford the car that you want or need, 50% is not a problem. If you think the $ is too much, wait a while more and save up or buy a Caymen instead of a Aventador. The part about the plight of the rich man cant use the money for investments. Well, its his choice right? Ok perhaps 50% is harsh but the reality is we are also exposing a lot of people to financial risk when they are allowed to take up too much debts. I quoted Mr Warren Buffet: "a person who is not in debt cannot become a bankrupt".

 

On rule 3). It is to encourage car pooling within a family and not penalize small families who need transport more. I note the downside, but I would rather penalized singles rather than parents in an aging society.

 

 

 

 

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(edited)

Car loans should exclude COE, and let owners bid for them in cash.

 

Car loans should be max 70% for 7 years.

 

Current system don't work as in the end, the average car owners suffer by taking 100% loan for 10 yrs in order to let car distributors outbid each other.

 

End result is the consumer not just pay, but take up huge loans, so that car distributors can outbid each other. Government and banks profit. Car distributors don't care, because the average consumer ends up footing the bill for the entire 10 yrs. They just pass the buck.

 

The key is to outlaw distributors to bid for COE, and let car buyers buy for ourselves. And to pay COE in cash, no loans.

 

Contrary to popular beliefs, this will not mean only the rich will own cars. Right now, no matter how high the COE, the rich will still be able to buy. The number of COE is now fixed. The rich is already buying what they want, when they want, regardless of COE prices.

 

That leaves the rest of average consumer to fight for the remaining COEs. Right now, the COE is high because the average consumer is taking up huge loans to outbid each other, so instead of being able to afford $20K to $40K for COE, they are now able to afford $80 to $100K COE because it's "hidden" into car loans, spread over 10 years repayment (hmmm, extra $100 per month not much, OK lah!). But everyone also end up "OK lah", so the price of COE moves from $20K-$40K to $80-$100K. Did more average consumers get their cars?

 

No! The number of COE is fixed. The supply is fixed.

 

Car loans make the demand propensity to accept higher prices easier. This drives the set price up.

 

This is perverse system to penalise the average consumer.

Edited by Vblaster_w211
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Supersonic

last year when my brother wanna buy a 5 year old used toyota altis people told him to wait.... coe is dropping... price will dropped..... and after that coe go up again, he held on, and this goes on and on till now.... should he buy now or wait till after august? he told me his taxi fare per month is about $800 already as he stays in pasir ris and he works in town area... wait? or buy? any advice?

Your brother should go ahead to buy a car, no need to wait cause dont think COE will drop or drop much. When back in 2010 when COE was around $30K plus, my colleague also asked me wait or buy. I told him go ahead and buy cause COE will increased further. Looks like i was right.

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Supersonic
(edited)

For sure low end jap and Korean car will die slowly.

Dont think will die, eversince the COE has been increased so much for so long, and yet until today these jap and korea car still around lo. [rolleyes]

Edited by 13177
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Cat A cars will be gradually replaced by entry-level C-class, 1-series, A3 and Taxis.

 

Saw a few red plate SKF plate lately, with 17k rebate only, might as well get a better 2nd hand car.

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Saw a few red plate SKF plate lately, with 17k rebate only, might as well get a better 2nd hand car.

 

Actually I mean can get a second hand black plate and use it as and when they want already with such high price and low rebate.

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