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236 replies to this topic | 118 praises

#1

Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

Bradz7777
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In singapore as you all know it, to buy a used car, we all need to fork out more cash due to MAS new car loan rules, whereby we are only allow to loan 50% or 60% of the used car price.
So if you think you are protected against those unethical, dishonest dealers?
Think again.

Once you pay a big down payment to the dealer to buy a used car for example, if the dealer decides to play you out, you are doomed.
There is no clear cut rule or law that you are able to get back your down payment if the dealer fails to deliver the car to you.
Tricks dealer play:
1)they can drag and drag.. saying your loan application still in process.(or with other 101 excuses) Therefore you cant get your car. (they can take 1 or 2 mths, and have time to play with your hard earned down payment)
2) Should you decide that enough is enough of waiting, you want to cancel the deal, you need to go through a hard time getting back.
Or can you really get back?
3) Signing on black and white will not 100% protect you. After all, if the dealer decides to play dirty with you and not return your down payment.. you can go police or what but end up.. you may need to spend more legal $ to get back your money.
4) Those dealer can argue to the police they used your down payment for other business process, therefore cannot return your down payment straight away as your like if you want to cancel the deal.

It is like you are giving the dealer a installment free loan, especially if you give them a big down payment for the car.

Why cant we be protected against such dealer?
Surely there must be some kind of laws or acts to be implemented especially with the new MAS car loan ruling.

Myself sadly encounter with such dirty dealer ..
I have decided to share in depth details on what actually happened.. make sure fellow forumers dont fall for the same trick.

Dealer: Andy Koh from Mirage Motor Pte Ltd
Empty shell company or real ? I leave this job for the police.

I am actually buying a car from direct seller and Im getting Andy for his (middleman)services for loan application ,settlement and transfer of car.

25/4
Met Andy Koh at IMM whereby i gave him relevant documents for the loan. approval. Also signed loan documents(he requested me to leave out the dates) and sale proposal form. I also passed him 14k for the down payment.
Note: he did not passed me the sale proposal form which states the 14k down payment i gave him but i took a pic of it.

26/4
I was told by Andy Koh my loan is approved by T****o Lea***g. He also mentioned that the processing will not be that fast as the appointed bank is processing many of his other client's application concurrently. It is norm to take weeks he said.

I called him everyday to ask for an update, but the replies i get is mostly:
- bro, where got so fast? relax.. let them do.
-you are not the only one waiting.. they still got do many of my client's application.
- I also cant do anything, i already rush them everyday.
-Ok will ask them again today and let u know. (usually nothing)

When i asked him.. can i contact them directly, he said cannot. If i contact them directly he will be screwed by them.




2 weeks past
14/5
Andy Koh said he needed my advance first month installment for the loan of $677, a processing fee(comms) of $300 and transfer fee of $11. I passed to him.

I found out from car seller and my friends that processing of loan settlement usually takes maximum of 2 weeks.

I grew suspicious and called T****o Lea***g directly. That's when I found out that Andy go through an agent, which is in this case *L CR***T . A company that is authorized to deal with banks and helps to do settlements and loan approval.
I called this company and found out that Andy DID NOT submit any loan documents that i signed on 25/4 nor the money i gave him.

I called Andy and confront him and thats when he began to ignore my calls or acts busy... saying he is meeting customers..call me back.. and usually he did not.

21/5
I finally give him a ultimatum saying if he dont ans my call, i will report him. That's when he sent me a sms saying he is on the way down *L CR***T to submit everything. I believe him as i called *L CR***T to verify if Andy Koh has indeed reach their office.

Thinking he had given everything to *L CR***T including my 14k , advance installment and transfer fee.. I called him to ask back my $300 as he did not fulfill his part as a middleman.. that's when he said there is actually a $120 finance fee(which i never once heard from him before!) which he had actually include in the $300 processing fee. He refused to return me and stop replying my sms.

22/5
I went down *L CR***T with the owner as there is some documents which i signed wrongly. (*L CR***T called me down) . To our disgust, Andy Koh did not passed *L CR***T any money... he only gave them the applications.

*L CR***T called Andy asking him to give them the outstanding to do the settlement. He said okay and will drop down and give them by the end of the day.
I also called Andy and he said he will try his best to reach ASAP.
However after that, he went MIA. I bombard his phone but he either never answer or say he is busy, and end my call.
I even threathen that i will call police if he never return call.
around evening, Andy Koh finally returned my call and confessed he did not have my $14,688 and mentioned he had used my money for his own business purposes.
He also said he only have $7500 with him and he will pass to *L CR***T later today. He will also pass the balance next wed.
I said NO and want him to pass the 7500 to me personally and i also want him to sign black and white with me.
He said he will meet me around 10pm , ask me to wait for his call.

As usual, he went MIA and didnt keep his promise.

23/5
I went to Andy Koh's house to find him (i happen to have his address) but he wasnt home. I then called the police.
I went to his void deck hoping to find him and luckily saw him!
He was about to drive away and i manage to stop him.
He then say... oh..i am about to call you.. see..i got the documents (black and white) ready for you to sign.
I made him sign the black and white(to safeguard myself) and by then, the police came.

The worse thing is..even though he didnt deny he got my $14688, and also confess to the police that he used my money for his own business use... the police didnt bring him back.
Both of us took statement and thats it!
the police also mentioned this is a breach of agreement and is best solved between the both of us.
I ask him how he wants to return my money and he just said "no, you call police already mah...i not going to return you and i will speak to my lawyer first" in a cocky tone. in the presence of the police officers.

On that very day.. the Investigation officer didnt call me . Rather i must call him to ask him what is the status. He only says he will conduct some investigation before anything.

24/5 Vesak day
I tried calling IO many times, only managed to get hold of him..and he told me he is off today.

25/5
Finally IO took initiative to call me and said he had called Andy Koh.
Andy koh told him he will complete my settlement. I said No..i do not want his service anymore and all i want is my 14k back. and shoot that IO back to see if andy even have 14k ?
IO then return call. Andy told him.."yes i have.. but if he wants his 14k back, he will need to get it back through legal means".


Andy Koh is obviously playing dirty here and yet he can be so cocky. Why aint we car buyer being protected??

29/5 latest update.

Andy called me yesterday. He says he have my 14k now and going to show to police to prove he have it. However, he refused to return my money and wants me to deal with him using my $14k to buy a car from him(meaning he wants to earn more).

He also said he can forfeit my money and the most ridiculous part is he says he has the rights to earn money from me because of this thread i started and caused him to lose credibility. He said some of his customers called him to ask what happen etc.

what RIGHTS he have to forfeit my money??
I demanded my $14688 nett in cash back.. no question ask.. and im definitely to seek a lawyer to claim back my rightful money and all time/opportunities loss and my sleepless nights.. if he refused to return.


#2

Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Yewheng
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Expose the company. This type of company deserved to be exposed.

#3

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

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Oh dear
Really frustrating
Esp the part about the polis farce's advice to you...


You mentioned a very good point about the huge down
Normally I buy things also don't down so much just in case
In this case, buy car already big ticket
then have to down so much... what if they run/ close shop rt?


sounds a bit counter intuitive here...
Bitten and Smitten



#4

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

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if i were you, i serve letter of demand at his workplace.

make sure he not in, cos then lawyer need to paste on the door. when he ask you why, say .. you not there, my lawyer say need to paste.
(i normally get my lawyer to ensure they not there, and paste on the door and slip the original under the door).

in this case, think you really lan lan though. had 1 guy cheat us say no $ after that. abt 12k. still can tell alwyer no $, then stupidly post buying new bmw on his fb. long story short ... unless u throw him in front of a judge, you wont get anything back.
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#5

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:11 PM

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BLOODY HELL...this kinda company really need to be blacklisted ....if can post his photo...best..

''Don't take life too serious...learn to forgive and forget..after all.....no one get out of life......alive''


#6

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:23 PM

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Over in sg.....gharmen only protect themselves.

Everyboby need to fend fr themselves. Thats why cheats n crooks so cocky here.

Ty know e law n how to play around wh customers.

Here only cheating gharmen u kenna. Anyone else n e cheat can play monkey tricks n make u run round n round till u give up. wacko.gif

#7

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

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Bro. its unfortunate to hear about that.
Anyway what many dealers do now is. take your deposit then say wait for loan then after 1 week or 2 still say no response as high volume for bank and this and that.
Meanwhile they try to find another buyer offering a better price. Then tell you sorry, loan not approved and return you your deposit.

My dealer wasted 2-3 weeks of my time waiting which the cars depreciation drop by SGD300 every week. After the third week, I went for another car and ask him to return the deposit. My loan was approved in 1 day.

Monday morning submit docs, Tuesday the officer called me for verification and loan approved on Tuesday. I asked the officer about how long it usually takes, she says, 4-6 hours.

Anyway, do not give up, very unprofessional.

#8

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:27 PM

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You need to sue him. All evident is against him and he will lose. The court will bankrupt him if he don't paid and you can sell his house to repay you.

#9

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:28 PM

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Just to add on. To go around this.
Give a very low deposit. SGD500 or so.
Get the person to meet at LTA to do the transaction.
Hand the cash to the dealer on the day of the transaction.
That will be safer.

#10

Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:41 PM

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You need to sue him. All evident is against him and he will lose. The court will bankrupt him if he don't paid and you can sell his house to repay you.


you do realize that just getting to court costs about $30k at the minimum, of which, its difficult to claim 100% of court costs from the losing party.

#11

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:17 PM

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Hi TS, thanks for sharing your case with us, it is really disheartening that a joyous event (buying a car) can turn out so bad.

Lesson learnt, under this climate of some many unknown (due to the CM), buying from a larger preowned dealer would make better sense.


On a lighter note, the dealer company name already gives a hint, isn't ? Go google, and you know it means?



#12

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

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Hi TS, thanks for sharing your case with us, it is really disheartening that a joyous event (buying a car) can turn out so bad.

Lesson learnt, under this climate of some many unknown (due to the CM), buying from a larger preowned dealer would make better sense.


On a lighter note, the dealer company name already gives a hint, isn't ? Go google, and you know it means?


Andy Koh from Mirage Motor Pte Ltd... It's in the first post. This type of dealer really give the industry a bad name.

#13

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

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Actually, as some bros have shared before, avoid paying outstanding loan in cash. Best to issue a cashier's order to the bank or finance company, not to the car dealer or his company. That way, one can prevent CBT.

Trust MUST be earned. Otherwise, untested trust coupled with convenience, one becomes easy prey to unscrupulous dealers. Even with big reputable dealers, issue cashier's order or crossed cheque to the bank/ finance company.... the company may be safe but the SE handling your transaction may be a crook.

Thnx for sharing and hope you can recover most, if not all your money soon.

Safe ride
Cheers

#14

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

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If you are buying the car from a direct seller, why not just go thru' the paperwork with the seller? No need to involve those useless dealers.

It's a very straight process nowadays. Sgcarmart has all the procedures listed.

I just purchased a used car from a seller 3 days back.

#15

Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

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See MP?
有❤️就好👌
多做少说,多听👂少讲
做人吃点亏,莫占人便宜

#16

Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

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sorry, who recommend u the agent anyway? Agent always like to drag, and got alot of ways to play tricks.. while keep look up for higher buyer etc..

best get sgcarmart connect of something for the independent service.. most pay $300 service fee if u don't get loan more than $20k


#17

Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

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I offer you alternative solutions , might not be the best solution.

1. Just tell get the LEGAL debt collectors to collect this money. Typically they take 20~40% of the amount but at least you can get back the rest of the money. Since he took your money and "used" it for other purposes which constitutes to a "loan".

2. This actually can be countered by filing a report claiming he cheated your money since you paid 14k for the car , in which he fails to do so. Your police report has to be properly prepared and structured out before presenting it to the police station to maximize your success rate of recovery of monies from restitution. It is a CHEATING case and though i might be wrong but i think you can verify these with the others.


3. Though i shouldn't be saying this , get a p.i to tail him , probably cost you something like 3~4k but it is the easiest way to dig something from him , if he actually go overseas get someone overseas to do him in. Make sure he gets 1X good one. Most likely he will find a way to repay asap. But i would like to warn you that this might be on the fringe of being illegal.

That said i have seen people getting into serious trouble for non repayment of their "debts" , so if those jokers think they can run , they are just lucky they met up people which are nice.



4. alternatively You can approach small claims tribunal since you claim it is only 7.5k and get the lawyers to draft a demand letter which probably cost you a few hundred and escalate further to a writ of seizure and sale. (Since you claim he bought a bmw even easier)


http://www.smallclaims.gov.sg

Edited by CH_CO, 30 May 2013 - 08:21 PM.

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#18

Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:12 PM

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image.jpg

Think this is that fxxker. rifle.gif

#19

Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:24 PM

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used car dealers are CROOKS

sometime when i see comments like why die die must buy new car ... there are so many 2-3 years used car for sale

but they never mentioned the risk ... the pain ... the fk up dealer face ... the uncertainty of the car ... you handover the money ... money fly away and still no car
you can't even see what's coming ... the dirty tricks that used car dealer use to make the worst day of your life ...

buy used car really has to do a lot of homework ... probably need to bring along a lawyer and video tape the transaction

even you got he car ... imagine you drive for weeks and out of a sudden officer come to repossess your car because it is NOT your car ... and you probably still owe bank money
that kind of anxiety and pain is really unbearable

if you go through the blacklisted dealer thread ... you can vomit blood

Edited by Wt_know, 30 May 2013 - 08:45 PM.


#20

Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:30 PM

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Think this is that fxxker. rifle.gif


What a tel. no. +81 0000 0000 laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Still dare to put contacts all around the world.

This is really ultimate.


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