[Awareness] Car Dealers loopholes?

[CH_CO]

Amazon777'

I joined this forum since 2005, not too sure how u can relate my nick and threadstarter nick.

 

Anyway, my intention is to let others know there are trusted loan brokers around. They can call all the banks car loan dept to ask for their referred trusted brokers. With the 40%/50% cash downpayment require nowadays, its even more important the buyers go in with their eyes opened. I'm just sharing what I know if more are buying direct and securing own loans

 

I have my bad experience as well in 2000 when a direct buyer sold a too good to be true bmw at lower than market price. Give a $4k d/p cheque and in the end seller is con man. Police caught him and he was sentenced, a few others buyers were conned as well. End up my $4k gone with the wind.

 

Bradz7777

Thanks all for the encouragement. definitely a hard lesson learnt.

anyway i have already gone to CASE, small claims tribunal while waiting for police to gather evidence to prosecute him ..at the moment is only breach of agreement.. so police cant do anything yet.

will update you guys.

 

 

 

 

Since you claim you aren't then we just take it as you aren't , cheers. That said , it doesn't take alot of time for the administrators to find out whether the ip is the same.

 

Anyway not important , let's go back to the main topic one can go straight to the bank to apply for the loan as opposed to the common thinking that they have to go through dealers. It is just that some bank's managers have dealing with dealers for them to "push" loan deals to them.

 

I do agree with some that Loan dealers should be subjected to the same regulation as insurance or property market to prevent wayward dealers. Even the SME loans and personal credit line needs a big overhaul. The credit industry is damn messy without a clear set of guidelines thus those grey areas in which many abuse.

 

Personally i still think , there are alot of to do to regulate the loans industry and loan dealers are to be given a number which sticks to them along with all the wrong doings. Basically it cleans up this messy trade but i do think many banks would find it difficult to do so as there is no incentive to do so.

Edited May 31, 2013 by CH_CO

[Wyfitms]

feel for u bro..

 

but i would have avoided companies with the name auto mirage ... or auto illusion... or auto scam etc

 

and i am confounded on the last part of your post.. this andy asked for compensation because of the thread u started... but how could u have started this thread and included this statement in before andy and others find out abt the thread?? mind totally blown man

[Leijasper]

In singapore as you all know it, to buy a used car, we all need to fork out more cash due to MAS new car loan rules, whereby we are only allow to loan 50% or 60% of the used car price.

So if you think you are protected against those unethical, dishonest dealers?

Think again.

 

Once you pay a big down payment to the dealer to buy a used car for example, if the dealer decides to play you out, you are doomed.

There is no clear cut rule or law that you are able to get back your down payment if the dealer fails to deliver the car to you.

Tricks dealer play:

1)they can drag and drag.. saying your loan application still in process.(or with other 101 excuses) Therefore you cant get your car. (they can take 1 or 2 mths, and have time to play with your hard earned down payment)

2) Should you decide that enough is enough of waiting, you want to cancel the deal, you need to go through a hard time getting back.

Or can you really get back?

3) Signing on black and white will not 100% protect you. After all, if the dealer decides to play dirty with you and not return your down payment.. you can go police or what but end up.. you may need to spend more legal $ to get back your money.

4) Those dealer can argue to the police they used your down payment for other business process, therefore cannot return your down payment straight away as your like if you want to cancel the deal.

 

It is like you are giving the dealer a installment free loan, especially if you give them a big down payment for the car.

 

Why cant we be protected against such dealer?

Surely there must be some kind of laws or acts to be implemented especially with the new MAS car loan ruling.

 

Myself sadly encounter with such dirty dealer ..

I have decided to share in depth details on what actually happened.. make sure fellow forumers dont fall for the same trick.

 

Dealer: Andy Koh from Mirage Motor Pte Ltd

Empty shell company or real ? I leave this job for the police.

 

I am actually buying a car from direct seller and Im getting Andy for his (middleman)services for loan application ,settlement and transfer of car.

 

25/4

Met Andy Koh at IMM whereby i gave him relevant documents for the loan. approval. Also signed loan documents(he requested me to leave out the dates) and sale proposal form. I also passed him 14k for the down payment.

Note: he did not passed me the sale proposal form which states the 14k down payment i gave him but i took a pic of it.

 

26/4

I was told by Andy Koh my loan is approved by T****o Lea***g. He also mentioned that the processing will not be that fast as the appointed bank is processing many of his other client's application concurrently. It is norm to take weeks he said.

 

I called him everyday to ask for an update, but the replies i get is mostly:

- bro, where got so fast? relax.. let them do.

-you are not the only one waiting.. they still got do many of my client's application.

- I also cant do anything, i already rush them everyday.

-Ok will ask them again today and let u know. (usually nothing)

 

When i asked him.. can i contact them directly, he said cannot. If i contact them directly he will be screwed by them.

 

 

 

 

2 weeks past

14/5

Andy Koh said he needed my advance first month installment for the loan of $677, a processing fee(comms) of $300 and transfer fee of $11. I passed to him.

 

I found out from car seller and my friends that processing of loan settlement usually takes maximum of 2 weeks.

 

I grew suspicious and called T****o Lea***g directly. That's when I found out that Andy go through an agent, which is in this case *L CR***T . A company that is authorized to deal with banks and helps to do settlements and loan approval.

I called this company and found out that Andy DID NOT submit any loan documents that i signed on 25/4 nor the money i gave him.

 

I called Andy and confront him and thats when he began to ignore my calls or acts busy... saying he is meeting customers..call me back.. and usually he did not.

 

21/5

I finally give him a ultimatum saying if he dont ans my call, i will report him. That's when he sent me a sms saying he is on the way down *L CR***T to submit everything. I believe him as i called *L CR***T to verify if Andy Koh has indeed reach their office.

 

Thinking he had given everything to *L CR***T including my 14k , advance installment and transfer fee.. I called him to ask back my $300 as he did not fulfill his part as a middleman.. that's when he said there is actually a $120 finance fee(which i never once heard from him before!) which he had actually include in the $300 processing fee. He refused to return me and stop replying my sms.

 

22/5

I went down *L CR***T with the owner as there is some documents which i signed wrongly. (*L CR***T called me down) . To our disgust, Andy Koh did not passed *L CR***T any money... he only gave them the applications.

 

*L CR***T called Andy asking him to give them the outstanding to do the settlement. He said okay and will drop down and give them by the end of the day.

I also called Andy and he said he will try his best to reach ASAP.

However after that, he went MIA. I bombard his phone but he either never answer or say he is busy, and end my call.

I even threathen that i will call police if he never return call.

around evening, Andy Koh finally returned my call and confessed he did not have my $14,688 and mentioned he had used my money for his own business purposes.

He also said he only have $7500 with him and he will pass to *L CR***T later today. He will also pass the balance next wed.

I said NO and want him to pass the 7500 to me personally and i also want him to sign black and white with me.

He said he will meet me around 10pm , ask me to wait for his call.

 

As usual, he went MIA and didnt keep his promise.

 

23/5

I went to Andy Koh's house to find him (i happen to have his address) but he wasnt home. I then called the police.

I went to his void deck hoping to find him and luckily saw him!

He was about to drive away and i manage to stop him.

He then say... oh..i am about to call you.. see..i got the documents (black and white) ready for you to sign.

I made him sign the black and white(to safeguard myself) and by then, the police came.

 

The worse thing is..even though he didnt deny he got my $14688, and also confess to the police that he used my money for his own business use... the police didnt bring him back.

Both of us took statement and thats it!

the police also mentioned this is a breach of agreement and is best solved between the both of us.

I ask him how he wants to return my money and he just said "no, you call police already mah...i not going to return you and i will speak to my lawyer first" in a cocky tone. in the presence of the police officers.

 

On that very day.. the Investigation officer didnt call me . Rather i must call him to ask him what is the status. He only says he will conduct some investigation before anything.

 

24/5 Vesak day

I tried calling IO many times, only managed to get hold of him..and he told me he is off today.

 

25/5

Finally IO took initiative to call me and said he had called Andy Koh.

Andy koh told him he will complete my settlement. I said No..i do not want his service anymore and all i want is my 14k back. and shoot that IO back to see if andy even have 14k ?

IO then return call. Andy told him.."yes i have.. but if he wants his 14k back, he will need to get it back through legal means".

 

 

Andy Koh is obviously playing dirty here and yet he can be so cocky. Why aint we car buyer being protected??

 

29/5 latest update.

 

Andy called me yesterday. He says he have my 14k now and going to show to police to prove he have it. However, he refused to return my money and wants me to deal with him using my $14k to buy a car from him(meaning he wants to earn more).

 

He also said he can forfeit my money and the most ridiculous part is he says he has the rights to earn money from me because of this thread i started and caused him to lose credibility. He said some of his customers called him to ask what happen etc.

 

what RIGHTS he have to forfeit my money??

I demanded my $14688 nett in cash back.. no question ask.. and im definitely to seek a lawyer to claim back my rightful money and all time/opportunities loss and my sleepless nights.. if he refused to return.

 

Bro, loan application don't take weeks to approve.. 3-4 days already consider long.. 1-3 days normal.. I got mine approve within 3hr.. 10am dealer call, now he submit.. By 1pm call me again say approve..

[Yenyenpark]

Bro, loan application don't take weeks to approve.. 3-4 days already consider long.. 1-3 days normal.. I got mine approve within 3hr.. 10am dealer call, now he submit.. By 1pm call me again say approve..

normally if they wanna earn ur money very fast submit and get approved..

 

but some will play tricks if their profit is not there.. probably delay to find another buyer etc etc.. because if ur loan rejected, they take back car then look for new buyer.. it's norm..

[Bradz7777]

Amazon777'

I joined this forum since 2005, not too sure how u can relate my nick and threadstarter nick.

 

Anyway, my intention is to let others know there are trusted loan brokers around. They can call all the banks car loan dept to ask for their referred trusted brokers. With the 40%/50% cash downpayment require nowadays, its even more important the buyers go in with their eyes opened. I'm just sharing what I know if more are buying direct and securing own loans

 

I have my bad experience as well in 2000 when a direct buyer sold a too good to be true bmw at lower than market price. Give a $4k d/p cheque and in the end seller is con man. Police caught him and he was sentenced, a few others buyers were conned as well. End up my $4k gone with the wind.

 

Bradz7777

Thanks all for the encouragement. definitely a hard lesson learnt.

anyway i have already gone to CASE, small claims tribunal while waiting for police to gather evidence to prosecute him ..at the moment is only breach of agreement.. so police cant do anything yet.

will update you guys.

 

 

 

 

Since you claim you aren't then we just take it as you aren't , cheers. That said , it doesn't take alot of time for the administrators to find out whether the ip is the same.

 

Anyway not important , let's go back to the main topic one can go straight to the bank to apply for the loan as opposed to the common thinking that they have to go through dealers. It is just that some bank's managers have dealing with dealers for them to "push" loan deals to them.

 

I do agree with some that Loan dealers should be subjected to the same regulation as insurance or property market to prevent wayward dealers. Even the SME loans and personal credit line needs a big overhaul. The credit industry is damn messy without a clear set of guidelines thus those grey areas in which many abuse.

 

Personally i still think , there are alot of to do to regulate the loans industry and loan dealers are to be given a number which sticks to them along with all the wrong doings. Basically it cleans up this messy trade but i do think many banks would find it difficult to do so as there is no incentive to do so.

 

I am obviously not that amazon777. i dont know what he is trying to achieve here..

 

anyway, today consulted lawyer but cant really reveal much here.

but one thing for sure.. if andy wants to smoke me and says he can claim me for reputation damages, he better go through legal means.

 

what i mention here is nothing but facts and truth.. just to warn all fellow car buyers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bradz7777]

Bro, loan application don't take weeks to approve.. 3-4 days already consider long.. 1-3 days normal.. I got mine approve within 3hr.. 10am dealer call, now he submit.. By 1pm call me again say approve..

 

That is why within 1 week of signing all loan documents.. i already call him every single day asking for updates.

and he will gives me lot of excuses saying agent drag my paper work etc.

 

somemore i later found out he actually extend my loan application deadline without informing me. suppose to end on 15 or 14 may.

 

 

[Tianake]

breach of agreement? more like a fraud case to me. u mean our dear polis juz tai chi?

 

their police instructor got teach the trainees TAICHI in the police academy. so most of them are TAICHI Master.

 

[KiddyWee]

Firstly, you aren't supposed to give the downpayment until the loan has been approved. You only need place a deposit to reserve the vehicle and secure the transaction. Its sad to hear that you were conned by such a man but it takes two hands to make something like this happen too.

You should've done a little bit more homework in my opinion. If you are ever giving money to someone, make sure they have a payment receipt voucher which states that aswell, you are supposed to keep the voucher stating that you have given money to him and he will need to sign it.

These payment vouchers can be bought from any Popular bookstore. There are many ways to keep yourself safe when it comes to money transactions, although a little troublesome...its more troublesome to earn and save more than 10 thousand bucks.

 

I hope all goes well, if you need any help in claiming that bugger you can PM me for advice.

I won't give you lawyer contacts, but I've claimed on dealers before.

[Wt_know]

if dealer want to cheat ... no amount of homework you do can solve it

 

you go to see car ... 19" BBS original swee swee rim ... ok you agree to pay abit more

but when you collect car ... it's the lousy almost wear out 16/17" original rim ...

then got face to tell you, you heard wrongly, of coz we sell car come with original factory stock rim

Edited May 31, 2013 by Wt_know

[Fitmugen]

I used sgcarmart connect for my direct car sale. Buyer and I each got 1% of loan amount as commission plus hassle free transaction

[5936]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Getting a new car is actually supposed to be fun filled and satisfying feelings.

I will be extra careful when getting new car after reading this.

 

 

[Bradz7777]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Getting a new car is actually supposed to be fun filled and satisfying feelings.

I will be extra careful when getting new car after reading this.

 

That is exactly how i feel when i am signing all the loan applications.

and he really throws me from heaven.. to hell.

and this is the first time im buying car... sigh.

 

latest: wanbao contacted me

[Wt_know]

great to share with wanbao ... then stomp & whatever will follow suit to contact you ...

all these mother father gentlemen dealer must be exposed ...

we need greater voice so that govt impose regulations to regulate the cowboy town used car market

 

That is exactly how i feel when i am signing all the loan applications.

and he really throws me from heaven.. to hell.

and this is the first time im buying car... sigh.

 

latest: wanbao contacted me

Edited May 31, 2013 by Wt_know

[Yewheng]

That is exactly how i feel when i am signing all the loan applications.

and he really throws me from heaven.. to hell.

and this is the first time im buying car... sigh.

 

latest: wanbao contacted me

 

Yes that's better.

 

[laugh]

[TJX]

Best if have photo of Andy Koh to print big big on Wanbao.. he can change his name and start another company and continue to cheat people but he cannot change his looks.... pls share photo if you have.. will avoid him big time.... He deserve to be shamed if your story is true.

Edited June 1, 2013 by TJX

[ATTB]

Best if have photo of Andy Koh to print big big on Wanbao.. he can change his name and start another company and continue to cheat people but he cannot change his looks.... pls share photo if you have.. will avoid him big time.... He deserve to be shamed if your story is true.

 

Yes, agree with u. TS, photo please! :angry:

[Yenyenpark]

great to share with wanbao ... then stomp & whatever will follow suit to contact you ...

all these mother father gentlemen dealer must be exposed ...

we need greater voice so that govt impose regulations to regulate the cowboy town used car market

 

 

hope this can settle his nightmare once and for all..

[Yenyenpark]

That is why within 1 week of signing all loan documents.. i already call him every single day asking for updates.

and he will gives me lot of excuses saying agent drag my paper work etc.

 

somemore i later found out he actually extend my loan application deadline without informing me. suppose to end on 15 or 14 may.

 

no need call everyday... but after 2-3 days are okay... he probably sense you are new... thus take this opportunity to bully you and of course.. the $14888...

 

more like scam to me..

 

try to come here more often while u shopping for car.. and we welcome all questions and willing to assist as much as we can..