Army regular found dead in SAF training area

[Gizmore]

slipped from the bridge, most likely commander error. Can't think of any mechanical problem that can lead to this. Tank steering system is very robust and mechanical. The most is cannot turn or cannot move. 

 

Probably can't turn? Probably the steering handle cannot engage the track to turn and correct course. The tank keep going till it slip and turn turtle.

[Atrecord]

Have to see what the investigation outcome says. I was only guessing.

 

 

Our combat engineers also have a M60 variant that combat engineers use. Used to see it in sungei gadung camp. LoL...

 

 

That one is CEV, combat engr vehicle. Used to clear minefield and other obstacles. the short short gun is big big calibre one, i think 160 mm, bigger than the FH-55. But not really si bey destructive, as it is used to clear obstacles only, not blast the enemy kms away...

 

i think it has the same 'base' as the AVLB behind it.

[Atrecord]

I was in armor, we have a platform specially built for vehicle overturning drill. We will perform the brace action while the platform simulate the vehicle overturning by tilting. The machine is slow and unrealistic. We feedback to our instructor.

 

One of them jokingly and grimly told us, the drill is not meant to keep you alive, its to make sure your body is still in one piece if the tank really overturns..

 

Awkward pindrop silence... But it worked, we drive like wuss throughout the training...

 

That simulator v slow meh? i thought it was decently fast... Used it twice only, once before we started our M113 driving lesson (which was easier i think), then later when we went to the back as troops. 

 

For the former, just make sure got safety belt on, then hug the 2 brake levers only.

 

For the latter, those standing on top need to quickly dive down and depend on those sitting down inside there (with seat belts) to grab hold of you tight... of course those sitting down one easier...

 

 

when we went there for the drill, saw got AI trainee troops. Among them got 2 vehicles got one lady each, with the rest all NS guys. Bloody hell, we were saying sure damn shiok when the sections do the overturning drills lor... 

haha, saw that thing at 46 vehicle shed before, but have never used nor seen anyone use it before

 

when 20 yrs old still can crawl through, now, confirm stuck. 

 

That simulator belonged to SOA, not 46... think is used only at the beginning of every course before the trainees start going into the M113 for movements. After that no need every again. At least it was like that for me during my time.

[Vulcann]

It was reported the ROC tank crew all got concussed and/or injured when their vehicle overturned and dropped onto the river below.

 

Now take a look at the interior of a M60 tank (hull of the CM11):

 

 

I think even with a Kevlar helmet also no use with all these sharp and hard points all over.

安息吧，國軍軍士們

[Pocus]

That one is CEV, combat engr vehicle. Used to clear minefield and other obstacles. the short short gun is big big calibre one, i think 160 mm, bigger than the FH-55. But not really si bey destructive, as it is used to clear obstacles only, not blast the enemy kms away...

 

i think it has the same 'base' as the AVLB behind it.

The m60 based cev and avlb phrase out liao... Now using similar platforms with leopard chassis

That simulator v slow meh? i thought it was decently fast... Used it twice only, once before we started our M113 driving lesson (which was easier i think), then later when we went to the back as troops.

 

For the former, just make sure got safety belt on, then hug the 2 brake levers only.

 

For the latter, those standing on top need to quickly dive down and depend on those sitting down inside there (with seat belts) to grab hold of you tight... of course those sitting down one easier...

 

 

when we went there for the drill, saw got AI trainee troops. Among them got 2 vehicles got one lady each, with the rest all NS guys. Bloody hell, we were saying sure damn shiok when the sections do the overturning drills lor...

 

 

That simulator belonged to SOA, not 46... think is used only at the beginning of every course before the trainees start going into the M113 for movements. After that no need every again. At least it was like that for me during my time.

Its not that slow lah, sorry if I say until like very slow. Its just that it's not as fast enough compared to a real vehicle overturn. This one still got time to self correct.

[Gizmore]

It was reported the ROC tank crew all got concussed and/or injured when their vehicle overturned and dropped onto the river below.

 

Now take a look at the interior of a M60 tank (hull of the CM11):

 

 

I think even with a Kevlar helmet also no use with all these sharp and hard points all over.

 

安息吧，國軍軍士們

 

It looks very similar to SM1. 

 

Crammed like mad with ancient looking buttons all over.

[Atrecord]

The m60 based cev and avlb phrase out liao... Now using similar platforms with leopard chassis

Its not that slow lah, sorry if I say until like very slow. Its just that it's not as fast enough compared to a real vehicle overturn. This one still got time to self correct.

 

i also think should phase out already... even i also MR so long liao 

 

That's true - if really going very fast and overturn, sure got no chance one lah...

what is more unimaginable is that inside my M113, if really go for war, can have all sorts of explosives (bangalore, TNT flakes, different different charges, electric and non-electric detonators), stores, and even sometimes barbed + concentina wires, monkey ramps, etc. inside...

 

Don't even think what will happen if really overturn...

[Macrosszero]

I've been inside a Leopard 1 and as large as it is, the interior is no less claustrophobic and packed.

[Spurman]

That one is CEV, combat engr vehicle. Used to clear minefield and other obstacles. the short short gun is big big calibre one, i think 160 mm, bigger than the FH-55. But not really si bey destructive, as it is used to clear obstacles only, not blast the enemy kms away...

 

i think it has the same 'base' as the AVLB behind it.

Both r now obselete unfortunately. No more in active

[Pocus]

It was reported the ROC tank crew all got concussed and/or injured when their vehicle overturned and dropped onto the river below.

 

Now take a look at the interior of a M60 tank (hull of the CM11):

 

 

I think even with a Kevlar helmet also no use with all these sharp and hard points all over.

 

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Lol its the same for all lah lol, amx13 bionix m113 all also cramped and many sharp edges, if you dun wear helmet its a deathwish...

 

The best armor vehicle I seat so far is the bronco attc, this one is more like a car and spacious. Got comfort bucket seats too. The rest of the tanks like sitting on stool while driving.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Pocus

[Sabian]

agree...

 

last time during NSF my unit asked me to go support reservist armour brigade exercise

 

put me into an M113 without training and still did river crossing

 

M113 was driven by a reservist uncle who liked to chiong

 

if the M113 overturned, i probably would be dead

 

Put on your helmet and seat belt lah. If overturn, you won't be flung out.

 

If river crossing, make sure you put on your safety vest.

 

Sibei kiasee...you non swimmer is it?

i also think should phase out already... even i also MR so long liao

 

That's true - if really going very fast and overturn, sure got no chance one lah...

what is more unimaginable is that inside my M113, if really go for war, can have all sorts of explosives (bangalore, TNT flakes, different different charges, electric and non-electric detonators), stores, and even sometimes barbed + concentina wires, monkey ramps, etc. inside...

 

Don't even think what will happen if really overturn...

By right, everything shd be strapped down mah.

 

By left, all shagged cannot think.

 

And who the fxxk packs the concertina wire inside??? Isn't it strapped to the front of the M113?

Edited August 17, 2016 by Sabian

[Kopites]

i also think should phase out already... even i also MR so long liao

 

That's true - if really going very fast and overturn, sure got no chance one lah...

what is more unimaginable is that inside my M113, if really go for war, can have all sorts of explosives (bangalore, TNT flakes, different different charges, electric and non-electric detonators), stores, and even sometimes barbed + concentina wires, monkey ramps, etc. inside...

 

Don't even think what will happen if really overturn...

To be frank have you ever see any AI with helmet on inside the vehicle? Seat belt buckled up?

[Atrecord]

To be frank have you ever see any AI with helmet on inside the vehicle? Seat belt buckled up?

 

I've not gone into any AI vehicle during training...

 

but in my own, ha ha... spot on - seat belt might not even be wrapped (had to use masking tape to tape it up during inspection), so no need talk about buckled up...

 

As for helmet, well what happens is this:

- if just after flanking, whole body perspiring, confirmed, guaranteed, chopped, stamped helmet off.

- if vehicle moving, wind blowing (= conducive for coma session), then there is good chance will put on helmet, close eyes, and let the head shake here turn there, etc. This way, even if knock against the vehicle or any other stuff, also won't feel (much) pain. 

[Atrecord]

Put on your helmet and seat belt lah. If overturn, you won't be flung out.

 

If river crossing, make sure you put on your safety vest.

 

Sibei kiasee...you non swimmer is it?

By right, everything shd be strapped down mah.

 

By left, all shagged cannot think.

 

And who the fxxk packs the concertina wire inside??? Isn't it strapped to the front of the M113?

 

Actually before the AI troopers can be operational, need to pass the required test, which include vehicle drills. So it's actually against TSR for someone not trained, to be stationed in the M113.

 

And yes, always start with by right, all swee swee one...

 

I'm not AI, but AP, so we deal with a lot of engineer stores. When rushed for time already, anything also can happen: if need to build mine field, vehicle can be loaded with lots of anti-tank mines. If need build wire obstacles, can have wires inside lor (and we're not talking about just 1 or 2 only that can be strapped to the front). Always wait for 3-tonners sure fail missions...

 

come to think of it, last time damn garang... if now, forget it... 

[Sabian]

Actually before the AI troopers can be operational, need to pass the required test, which include vehicle drills. So it's actually against TSR for someone not trained, to be stationed in the M113.

 

And yes, always start with by right, all swee swee one...

 

I'm not AI, but AP, so we deal with a lot of engineer stores. When rushed for time already, anything also can happen: if need to build mine field, vehicle can be loaded with lots of anti-tank mines. If need build wire obstacles, can have wires inside lor (and we're not talking about just 1 or 2 only that can be strapped to the front). Always wait for 3-tonners sure fail missions...

 

come to think of it, last time damn garang... if now, forget it... 

I know. I am from MTR.

 

In his case, he lan lan has to take the ride prob bec someone with more chocolate bars told him to mount up. So to make the best of a crappy situation, belt up and helmet on. Or else, throw the TSR at the higher up and refuse to get in.

 

I mean if that was an actual operational scenario, kpkb and refuse to get in, even if that was your only ride out?

 

I know you AP guys damn siong (esp the OVM stuff and AP tools) when attached to your AI combat teams. Was doing OVM during my NSF and it's a pain when issuing store to AP platoon.

 

In my vehicle, helmets must be on when vehicle is in motion. Seat belts, I know at least 2 of my guys buy into my message about safety.

 

Timing wise, I always make allowances for safety. I am an NSF and so are the rest of my crew, my job firstly is to make sure they come home alive and kicking and training comes in a close second. As long as the gist of the training sinks in, it's good enough for me.

 

After that incident in the mid-late 90s during Wallaby involving an M113 and a personnel of another vehicle, I don't know why but that incident had a rather big impact on me and how I viewed training safety.

[t0y0ta]

I've not gone into any AI vehicle during training...

 

but in my own, ha ha... spot on - seat belt might not even be wrapped (had to use masking tape to tape it up during inspection), so no need talk about buckled up...

 

As for helmet, well what happens is this:

- if just after flanking, whole body perspiring, confirmed, guaranteed, chopped, stamped helmet off.

- if vehicle moving, wind blowing (= conducive for coma session), then there is good chance will put on helmet, close eyes, and let the head shake here turn there, etc. This way, even if knock against the vehicle or any other stuff, also won't feel (much) pain. 

 

Agreed.

 

AI never wear seatbelts... the M113 is cramped enough inside, everyone need to stretch here and there to get comfortable... and usually seatbeat is taped up or muddy.

 

But helmet sometimes yes, if they know they may have to dismount anytime.

[Vulcann]

You armour folks are really       . RESPECT!!!

 

Imagine fighting in a claustrophobic environment and facing enemies equipped with all sorts of AT weapons against your vehicle. Heck even a lowly private soldier armed with LAW can take out lightly armoured AFVs such as dinosaur M113s. 

 

Not to mention also kena from APDS shots from MBTs or AT-missiles from choppers/fixed wing assets. 

 

Watched many war movies and seems dying in a burning AFV is the worst way to go...Fury is a good though gross movie for those who want to know more about this aspect.

 

Only time folks envy you guys is probably during an arty attack. All that thick slab of steel or other protective materials surrounding the crew sure beats the heck of the open environment facing infantry blokes out there.  

 

Of course tracked or wheeled platform is a good way to move around as compared to walking with heavy loads in the sun/rain.

 

That said, I would rather take my chances as a riflemen (which I was trained) then to be a tankee.

 

 

 

 

[Othello]

Actually before the AI troopers can be operational, need to pass the required test, which include vehicle drills. So it's actually against TSR for someone not trained, to be stationed in the M113.

 

 

now I'm reminded also. Like Enye, I was also asked to follow a M113 for river crossing during an exercise. I was a tankee, and a spare crew at that time. Followed my CSM vehicle