New Audi A3 Sedan - "only premium petrol sedan under Cat A"

[Ngbernie]

I think what a drivers car should be is probably based on individual driving preferences. However, preferences aside, the minimum power specs definately play a part. Eg; when driving an entry conti like 3 series and you floor the accelerator, it moves like a tortoise(slow). It's borderline luxury(basic), only it's handling is decent. Overall? Drivers car? Probably not. But still everyone buys it.(common among wannabes who actually think they are driving a real conti)

 

Comparing to its similar class, bought by ppl who don't buy based on badge, the "cold door" contis like SAAB 9-3/Alfa 159/Volvo s60, would leave it in the dust. (and have a more engaging drive) Anyone who thinks an entry BMW/VW/Audi etc has a good drive, you frankly need to try a lot more cars.

 

True, Alfa probably has lost some of its drive after being taken over by fiat. Nonetheless still an engaging spirited drive that 3 series or a4 can only hope to have. SAAB was bankrupt but it held on to it's saabishness without being influenced by GM(watch top gear). Race one along the expressway and it will be home before a 3series/a4/ vw even reaches the next exit.

 

 

2 points.

1. Most Singaporeans do not buy "a drivers car". In a market where cars cost 3-4x of other countries, they buy value. They look for comfort, looks, brand, resale value, fuel efficiency etc. Some of these factors contrasts against what makes a drivers car - power, handling.

 

(When an altis costs 120+k, a VW at a similar price and Audi/BMW at 20-30k more represents better value. Hence we see more entry-level continental cars. Not because they are badge whores or wannabes.

7-8 years ago, the market was flooded with altis, lancers, vios because they were priced at 40k+ compared to 70-90k for contis. That represented 30-50% savings. Japanese cars offered better value then)

 

2. "Race one along the expressway and it will be home before a 3series/a4/ vw even reaches the next exit"

I'm not sure which 3-series and Audi/VW you are referring to, or which V-8/V-10 car you are comparing against. I can only assume it's the 316 and the 1.4TSi's. You should really try driving the BMW and Audis before asking people to test more cars. The last I checked, the top of the range 5/6-cyl Saabs/Alfas and ALL volvos are no faster than 4-cyl 328i/2.0TSi. If Saab/alfa/volvo built something as fast, it would cost more to buy, maintain and depreciate twice as fast.

 

Unless you do not exercise practical judgement when you buy a car, it's not difficult to understand why Singaporeans are veering towards entry level conti cars at this moment

[Myxilplix]

Remember, handling is what you're left with when you've run out of grip.

[Hydrocarbon]

How dare everyone else buy cars I don't approve of!

 

Wanted to praise you for this but can't.

 

Live and let live ba, if someone wants a 320, let the guy drive a 320. Can't add much other than that to this convo, seeing that I haven't driven as many cars as some of the others around, but as long as when I'm driving the car, my face is and my heart is (excited), why the hell else care about other people's opinion of me?

 

True drivers car or not, not the issue. Most of the times on the road, it's what's between the seat and the steering wheel more than what badge the car has.

[Nameless26]

 

 

2 points.

1. Most Singaporeans do not buy "a drivers car". In a market where cars cost 3-4x of other countries, they buy value. They look for comfort, looks, brand, resale value, fuel efficiency etc. Some of these factors contrasts against what makes a drivers car - power, handling.

 

(When an altis costs 120+k, a VW at a similar price and Audi/BMW at 20-30k more represents better value. Hence we see more entry-level continental cars. Not because they are badge whores or wannabes.

7-8 years ago, the market was flooded with altis, lancers, vios because they were priced at 40k+ compared to 70-90k for contis. That represented 30-50% savings. Japanese cars offered better value then)

 

2. "Race one along the expressway and it will be home before a 3series/a4/ vw even reaches the next exit"

I'm not sure which 3-series and Audi/VW you are referring to, or which V-8/V-10 car you are comparing against. I can only assume it's the 316 and the 1.4TSi's. You should really try driving the BMW and Audis before asking people to test more cars. The last I checked, the top of the range 5/6-cyl Saabs/Alfas and ALL volvos are no faster than 4-cyl 328i/2.0TSi. If Saab/alfa/volvo built something as fast, it would cost more to buy, maintain and depreciate twice as fast.

 

Unless you do not exercise practical judgement when you buy a car, it's not difficult to understand why Singaporeans are veering towards entry level conti cars at this moment

 

Sometimes, the specs of a car don't represent the everything. A SAAB 9000 would beat a Ferrari testerosa or 911 between 80-120. (says jeremy clarkon) Its good in mid range, not the century sprint. That's why I said "highway, not traffic light". Anyway, I've tested the 5 series/ Merc e200/ and a 2.5l A6. None of them came even close to a 9-5 in terms of power. 328i? I wouldn't even bother. And I'm not even talking about the Aero version.

The only VW that could pose a threat to an Aero, would be R32. The rest are trash. Same goes for BMW, at least a 335.

As for Alfa, a 328 would match it. But definately not 320/A4 and most VW. "the entries"

[Nameless26]

You are correct if you are comparing solely on price, that the entry premium contis are slow and do not offer much sporty performance and creature comforts over the Saab and Alfa. This is excepting the A4 1.8T multitronic. This is their lowest base model for the B8 sedan, and it still offers an acceptable level of performance and comfort comparable to Saab 9-3, 9-5 and Alfa 159.

 

But if based on comparable engine class, then the situation changes.

 

Saab 9-3, 9-5, Alfa 159, etc must be compared to at least A4 1.8T MU, 320i F30, and C200 7-G CGI.

 

When you look at acceleration timings, the Germans, at this comparable base level, do beat the Saab and Alfa. On the skidpad for testing of handling, the lateral Gs also beat the Swede and Alfa.

 

We are not even talking about the more highly-strung A4 2.0T Quattro S-tronic, the 328i (2.0L turbo), or the C250 (1.8L turbo) which will smoke the Saab and Alfa flat in straight line acceleration.

 

That said, if price and value for money performance is the overriding factor in the purchase of a conti sedan, I would always choose pre-owned almost new units of the A4 1.8/2.0T, BMW 320i/328i, or Merc C200/250 instead of brand new Saab and Alfa, if going for the same price.

 

Unless your final criteria is that all car choices must be brand new, then I got nothing else to say, you are absolutely correct that Saab and Alfa are better value for money than 316i or C180 1.6L kompressor for performance concerns. But not by much, I must remind you!

 

Bro, The 3 series/A4/ C Class are with the 9-3. The 9-5 belongs to the middle boys, the 5series,A6. Etc. In this range, there's no doubt about it that A 9-3 or 159 would smoke any of the entry lvl contis. They dominate the segment. if talking about 328i, you need to compare with 9-3Aero. If you talk about 335, you need to compare with SAAB TurboX. An A4 2.0 Quattro would be eaten for breakfast.

And in the mid range, you'd need a 550i to smoke an Aero. A 520 wouldnt come anywhere close to a stock 9-5

 

I don't compare stats, I test drive the cars. Stats aren't relative. If a stock 320/A4/class could out accelerate a stock 9-3 or Alfa 159 in a genuine drag race. I'll eat the iPad im typing on. And yes,316 is entry. So are 320/328/ A4 anything. The bhp doesn't set them apart. A 3 whatever is still a 3series, entry lvl.(unless it's an M3 or Alpina).

 

I've never driven a Volvo, but based on the last time I drove a BMW, even a Volvo would smoke it.

[Proton_neutron]

In the end, the best marketing team from whichever car brands win the sales, win the profits.

 

Alfa Romeo - I'm looking forward to the 169. Fiat is developing it now. Give Fiat some time. They just bought over Chrysler, forming he FCA [Fiat-Chrysler-Automobile] group. Expect concept model to be unveiled in mid-2015; I believe the 169 will share chassis and engines with the Chrysler 300 (just in time for a new look new model).

 

BMW- The ultimate driving machine. To me, it was a joke that BMW dropped the 2.5L 6-cyl and went for 2.0IL4 turbos. But they had no choice, not when it comes to meeting the EU CO2 emission standards. You want their IL6, go for their _35i models. The new 2014 Mini Cooper will get 1.5turbo 3-cyl engine producing 136bhp while Cooper S models will get the 2.0T 184bhp (same engine as 320i and 520i). 3-cyl will get the characteristic howl of the IL6. But I've heard plenty of horror stories of my friend's and relative's 523i; Failure of i-Drive. BMW still has loads to improve on their electronics.

 

Mercedes- They're not bad, their new C-Class will probably flood the roads again. However, their E200 and E250 are cash cows on our roads. Or maybe the lucky few who can afford the S$597,888 S500L. Mercedes will always sell well, thanks to their rich heritage and long brandname.

 

Audi&VW- One is a glorified, more atas version of the other. Back in the low COE price days, when a Golf 1.4TSI was going for S$86k, people who were driving their Japanese sedans were tempted to try VW with their DSG gearboxes, and they did, but they came back disappointed. The engine may be powerful, but reliability brought them back to the Japanese route. The Golf and Jetta were once popular cars on our roads, but their days are gone. I'm not worried that VW cars will be eating much into our current limited COE quotas, because they won't. Audi A3 1.4TSI sedan? Well, it's for those who miss the previous A4. It's like the Toyota Vios of the A4. Smaller, more compact, for people who don't want a big car to drive about in. Sure, there will be buyers of the A3 sedan, but not many, so they won't be eating much into the quota.

 

Volvo- Seriously, you think the facelift Volvos will sell?? They look older than the pre-gen and although their engines are actually quite torquey, their facelift design seriously cmi. Looks sell, and it's a pity Volvo designers forgot about this.

 

COE for CAT A shot up mainly due to Mercedes C180 1.6T 156bhp 7G-Tronic sales. Now that it's gone, the only true contender would be the 2014 Altis.

 

The 2014 Altis is spacious and quite well made. People who currently own the 2004-2006 Altis will obviously drive it till its 10th year as it's a waste to trade in or sell their car for this new Altis.

 

I expect COE price for CAT A to drop to between $55k-60k come August.

[Wt_know]

i don't think so.

 

1. conti introduce new line up that is <130bhp such as a1/a3 & vw ... merc and bmw will come shortly

 

2. buyer (ie: badge whore) who can only afford the most basic entry level of conti bmw/merc/audi will continue to buy what car is available in cat A if cat B run up insanely

 

no matter what brand, what bhp, what car ... as long as demand > supply, coe will remain high

unless you are saying the buyers who are buying conti in cat A give up buying car if the car they wish to buy had move to cat B

 

there is a hokkien saying, no fish prawn also can ... cannot afford fish does not mean prawn price will go down

 

I expect COE price for CAT A to drop to between $55k-60k come August.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2014 by Wt_know

[Proton_neutron]

Like I said, the days when VW was quite popular on our roads, is over.

 

Audi A1 is more lifestyle car (VW Polo underneath). A3 is a glorified Golf (which doesn't sell in huge numbers since it was introduced here way back in 2005 even). The A3 sedan is something new and may draw people to the Audi brand and downgraders from A4 (looking for smaller sedan).

 

BMW and Mercedes, unless they are willing to pay extra to specially detune the ECU chip from factory.... Then I'll be wrong.

 

Otherwise, just my 2cents worth of opinion!

[Wt_know]

buyer for a1/a3/vw will suddenly said altis/civic is the best car because that's the car within their reach if cat b run insanely

my point is cat a demand will not reduce ... if demand > supply, how can cat a coe drop?

 

btw, i do find the conti AD is much more aggresive than the Jap/Korea AD

i think because their profit margin is higher and also their continuous profit from servicing is very profitable

Edited February 1, 2014 by Wt_know

[Twich]

buyer for a1/a3/vw will suddenly said altis/civic is the best car because that's the car within their reach if cat b run insanely

my point is cat a demand will not reduce ... if demand > supply, how can cat a coe drop?

 

btw, i do find the conti AD is much more aggresive than the Jap/Korea AD

i think because their profit margin is higher and also their continuous profit from servicing is very profitable

Audi and VW are good cars. Only agents are able to service these cars.

Conventional wisdom never go wrong. All conti cars can write off besides Mercedes. Very simple theory.

[Proton_neutron]

buyer for a1/a3/vw will suddenly said altis/civic is the best car because that's the car within their reach if cat b run insanely

my point is cat a demand will not reduce ... if demand > supply, how can cat a coe drop?

 

btw, i do find the conti AD is much more aggresive than the Jap/Korea AD

i think because their profit margin is higher and also their continuous profit from servicing is very profitable

 

Exactly. The dealer profit margin from mainstream Japanese cars isn't that much. The only reason why prices are high for CAT A is because it's been artificially pushed up due to the strong bidding power from Mercedes and BMW.

 

Now that they're kinda out of CAT A (assuming they don't have specially tuned ECU to bring down their bhp to below 130), mainstream Japanese car dealers will start to bid lower. Unless the demand for their new cars start to set in (which I highly doubt it as it's more worth to just drive their existing 8-9 years old car to its 10th), and it'll be from 2015 anyways when the start of de-registering for most cars bought during the 6% YOY growth kicks in.

[Twich]

buyer for a1/a3/vw will suddenly said altis/civic is the best car because that's the car within their reach if cat b run insanely

my point is cat a demand will not reduce ... if demand > supply, how can cat a coe drop?

 

btw, i do find the conti AD is much more aggresive than the Jap/Korea AD

i think because their profit margin is higher and also their continuous profit from servicing is very profitable

Not Mercedes.

[Siewss]

One question: Is the S-tronic 7 speeder the same as the VW DSG 7 speeder?

[Wt_know]

hopefully cat a down to $40k then can get a3 hatchback zoom zoom in the city

Edited February 1, 2014 by Wt_know

[GLZT]

 

Exactly. The dealer profit margin from mainstream Japanese cars isn't that much. The only reason why prices are high for CAT A is because it's been artificially pushed up due to the strong bidding power from Mercedes and BMW.

 

Now that they're kinda out of CAT A (assuming they don't have specially tuned ECU to bring down their bhp to below 130), mainstream Japanese car dealers will start to bid lower. Unless the demand for their new cars start to set in (which I highly doubt it as it's more worth to just drive their existing 8-9 years old car to its 10th), and it'll be from 2015 anyways when the start of de-registering for most cars bought during the 6% YOY growth kicks in.

 

I believe they have a 122bhp CLA.

[GLZT]

 

Exactly. The dealer profit margin from mainstream Japanese cars isn't that much. The only reason why prices are high for CAT A is because it's been artificially pushed up due to the strong bidding power from Mercedes and BMW.

 

Now that they're kinda out of CAT A (assuming they don't have specially tuned ECU to bring down their bhp to below 130), mainstream Japanese car dealers will start to bid lower. Unless the demand for their new cars start to set in (which I highly doubt it as it's more worth to just drive their existing 8-9 years old car to its 10th), and it'll be from 2015 anyways when the start of de-registering for most cars bought during the 6% YOY growth kicks in.

 

Mod pls remove, double post.

Edited February 1, 2014 by GLZT

[Astrid]

All conti cars can write off besides Mercedes. Very simple theory.

Agree.

Even older COE Mercs command a premium in that specific category of cars here!

[Hamburger]

The (current, FIAT-owned) ALFA, GM-based (and bankrupted) SAAB and Geely-owned Volvo drivers' car???

Agree. He couldn't be more wrong!

 

I took a SAAB 9-5 through its paces along South Buona Vista many moons ago. It was damn front-heavy of a bloody LWB FWD car ... handled like a pig!

 

 

 

well, Saab are never meant to be a driver's car. She is more about safety and pace, and of course character.

 

yes, i drive a Saab and I love it. And yes, it dont handles like i hoped for.