The Fall of Singapore - The Great Betrayal

[Duckduck]

 

amazing video... the expose is shocking...

[Thaiyotakamli]

dont need to watch but i know one of the betrayers is RadX

[Watwheels]

Why Churchill wants to cover up Sempill's atrocities? This disturbing to know. No wonder the Japanese had such advanced tech at the time. Aircraft carriers and fighter planes. Now I know why. So many suffered coz of one spy.

[Philipkee]

Some thing I have read cos of my interest in this topic.

 

1) it is not fair to blame the british for putting untrained troops and inferior aircraft. Prior to pearl harbour, it was peaceful in the east while there is war r in middle east and Europe. Logic dictates that the best forces go where the fighting is.

 

2) The British were not over confident. The expected Siam to assist and not switch sides.

 

3) The invasion from the north was so successful partly from assistance from the local populace. Japanese troops will find building materials near bridges that were blown up.

 

4) Sook ching happened because of people wearing hoods who pointed out to the Japanese who worked against them. As they wore hoods, logic dictates that they were locals. Who were they? I believe no one wanted to investigate lest we find out what we did not expect to find.

[Jasonjst]

Is a matter of time maybe by 2030 Singapore will eventually be take over by foreigner wat . Who do we blame ? This time round we got ourself to blame.

[Gitanic]

these freaking CBs knew that when things came to light they would already been dead.

[Duckduck]

Is a matter of time maybe by 2030 Singapore will eventually be take over by foreigner wat . Who do we blame ? This time round we got ourself to blame.

 

goes to show it doesnt matter how high level one is in garmen, if theres enuff $ given, theres a chance that high level garmen person will give out state secrets n become traitor. I wont b surprised its already happening now.

[Toothiewabbit]

Rats!!!! It's always about money!!!!

[Philipkee]

Did the british have chemical weapons in singapore? Anectodal evidence suggested they have but they were never used and never found. Perhaps the brits were afraid that the more exp japanese would use it as well.

 

Could force z have been saved? Yes. There was air cover but the admiral did not call for them. Question. The buffalo fighters. Were they adequate air cover? Turns out to be yes as the Japanese torpedo bombers would have been no match for the buffalos. Zeros were not used in the attack on force z.

 

Was the battle for malaya jungle warfare? Answer is no. Jungle warfare would have been like vietnam war or Emergency. The malayan campaign was fought mainly along the main roads and cities. The Japanese used jungles to outflank but battles were not really fought there.

 

The fact that the british troops were not trained in jungle warfare is not really accurate. They were more of untrained troops, not trained troops in desert warfare for example.

 

What if singapore had not fallen? I do not know what would have happened but unless the Japanese were decisively defeated, it could have been another guadacanal with both the british and japanese constantly sending reinforcements to win, with the ultimate loser the BIG loser.

 

There are people who said that Percival should have counter attacked. The question is would Singapore have been better served if percival had been a general who ordered his troops to fight to the last man? Who had one final battle in singapore city itself?

[Sabian]

Finally got a chance to watch the video.

 

Fascinating stuff.

[Philipkee]

Another thing that few know. Even the brits had a traitor. A captain patrick henan. One thing he did was inform the japs when british planes would take off and land cos they are most vulnerable then to be shot down.

[Fishy]

Some thing I have read cos of my interest in this topic.

 

1) it is not fair to blame the british for putting untrained troops and inferior aircraft. Prior to pearl harbour, it was peaceful in the east while there is war r in middle east and Europe. Logic dictates that the best forces go where the fighting is.

 

2) The British were not over confident. The expected Siam to assist and not switch sides.

 

3) The invasion from the north was so successful partly from assistance from the local populace. Japanese troops will find building materials near bridges that were blown up.

 

4) Sook ching happened because of people wearing hoods who pointed out to the Japanese who worked against them. As they wore hoods, logic dictates that they were locals. Who were they? I believe no one wanted to investigate lest we find out what we did not expect to find.

 

to add on, 1 Brit commander recommended building defences to which the incompetent Gen Percival rebutted "defences are bad for morale".

then an Australian commander Gen Bennett left his post just before the fall of SGP and escaped while his men became POW.

Such is the quality of commanders back in SGP ... they assigned such weak commanders to take charge while the more competent are in Africa and Europe. They obviously didnt think much of SGP and its importance (if any) and underestimated the enemy.

[Watwheels]

 

to add on, 1 Brit commander recommended building defences to which the incompetent Gen Percival rebutted "defences are bad for morale".

then an Australian commander Gen Bennett left his post just before the fall of SGP and escaped while his men became POW.

Such is the quality of commanders back in SGP ... they assigned such weak commanders to take charge while the more competent are in Africa and Europe. They obviously didnt think much of SGP and its importance (if any) and underestimated the enemy.

 

If you were the Japanese and you get to capture a high value POW such as a General. Won't you interrogate and torture him to give you all the information? Let's say you are more sinister dan that you dun torture him. You torture and kill his men in front of him. You see my point?

[Fishy]

 

If you were the Japanese and you get to capture a high value POW such as a General. Won't you interrogate and torture him to give you all the information? Let's say you are more sinister dan that you dun torture him. You torture and kill his men in front of him. You see my point?

 

 

u have a point but to escape and hand over a command to BG while he as a MG escaped. i mean how would u feel if your CO left in the midst of fighting while u are there fighting? Morale issue or moral issue? difficult to justify. Even his incompetent commander Gen Percival stayed on and rallied the troops during captivity in the POW camps.

[Philipkee]

 

 

u have a point but to escape and hand over a command to BG while he as a MG escaped. i mean how would u feel if your CO left in the midst of fighting while u are there fighting? Morale issue or moral issue? difficult to justify. Even his incompetent commander Gen Percival stayed on and rallied the troops during captivity in the POW camps.

My dad used to tell me this.

 

What was the difference between General Bennett and Heneral MacArthur when they fled their respective commands during the Japanese invasion?

 

While MacArthur was ordered out and Bennett wasn't, this order meant nothing to the line troops.

 

What was the real difference?

 

"I shall return!"

 

THAT made all the differenc3e and that is why people from the Philippines can still hail MacArthur as a Hero.

[Coolad]

My dad used to tell me this.

 

What was the difference between General Bennett and Heneral MacArthur when they fled their respective commands during the Japanese invasion?

 

While MacArthur was ordered out and Bennett wasn't, this order meant nothing to the line troops.

 

What was the real difference?

 

"I shall return!"

 

THAT made all the differenc3e and that is why people from the Philippines can still hail MacArthur as a Hero.

 

The re-taking of Philippines was actually a military blunder due to insistent of MacArthur to "save his face and pride"

 

Nimitz's alternate strategy of taking Taiwan, virtual blockade of Japan coupled with bombing of the home islands would have ended the war earlier and with much less bloodshed...

 

Percival was 1 of the most misunderstood wartime figure... upon taking command of Malaya ... he wrote back to Britain high command on many many occasions on the inadequacy of the defense and troops quality/numbers. He was basically left to fend for his own. In fairness Britain was also fighting for its own survival facing the Nazi onslaught, and to spare something like Force Z was enuff evidence on the importance of Singapore in the Pacific theater... (this importance was again re-emphasized in the Allies counter-offensive time-table that Singapore was to be re-taken in late 1945, early 1946 time-frame)

[Philipkee]

 

The re-taking of Philippines was actually a military blunder due to insistent of MacArthur to "save his face and pride"

 

Nimitz's alternate strategy of taking Taiwan, virtual blockade of Japan coupled with bombing of the home islands would have ended the war earlier and with much less bloodshed...

 

Percival was 1 of the most misunderstood wartime figure... upon taking command of Malaya ... he wrote back to Britain high command on many many occasions on the inadequacy of the defense and troops quality/numbers. He was basically left to fend for his own. In fairness Britain was also fighting for its own survival facing the Nazi onslaught, and to spare something like Force Z was enuff evidence on the importance of Singapore in the Pacific theater... (this importance was again re-emphasized in the Allies counter-offensive time-table that Singapore was to be re-taken in late 1945, early 1946 time-frame)

Actually the British problem was that they kept sending reinforcements piecemeal, not enough to make a decisive difference. The Hurricanes could have been useful if they had been sent together instead of in dribs and drabs and getting bombed in the airfields.

 

Soldiers were even landing in Singapore on Feb 13 1942, just in time for the surrender.

 

Sending reinforcements shows the panic at British high command then and made the final defeat worse.

 

Japan was to make the same mistake in Guadacanal where they sent reinforcements to fight, but not enough to win and finally losing everything.

[Fishy]

 

The re-taking of Philippines was actually a military blunder due to insistent of MacArthur to "save his face and pride"

 

Nimitz's alternate strategy of taking Taiwan, virtual blockade of Japan coupled with bombing of the home islands would have ended the war earlier and with much less bloodshed...

 

Percival was 1 of the most misunderstood wartime figure... upon taking command of Malaya ... he wrote back to Britain high command on many many occasions on the inadequacy of the defense and troops quality/numbers. He was basically left to fend for his own. In fairness Britain was also fighting for its own survival facing the Nazi onslaught, and to spare something like Force Z was enuff evidence on the importance of Singapore in the Pacific theater... (this importance was again re-emphasized in the Allies counter-offensive time-table that Singapore was to be re-taken in late 1945, early 1946 time-frame)

 

 

True about Percivial notifying high command about the lack of troops and equipment but he was also indecisive and did not build up defences even when urged on by his staff. He claimed defences are bad for morale. He dismissed reports that Japs were landing on the north west of the island and did not adequately reinforce the north west. Further, he did not go ahead and implement Operation Madator, which at this point although i'm not sure if it would have made an impact to history had it been carried out.

 

Talk about military blunder and unnecessary bloodshed, the Australian invaded Borneo near the end of the war although it did liberate quite a few POWs.