If you have house loan with shitty bank

[Kusje]

This is my Citibank rate:

 

Please note that your contractual periods are as follows:

· Contractual period from 14 July 2014: SIBOR + 0.95%

· Contractual period from 14 July 2016 SIBOR + 0.85%

· Contractual period from 14 July 2018: SIBOR + 1.25% (Thereafter rates)

[Kusje]

 

I am with ANZ.

 

I went through the my loan T&C again, I didn't see a clause that allows them to reset the spread but there is a clause that puts a 0.1% floor to both the SOR and SIBOR which it reasonable to me.

 

 

 

I think you better check again.

 

 

 

 

3.1 (iii) All loans are granted on the express condition that the Bank may vary the rate of interest payable thereon at any time or from time to time by the Bank giving to the borrower and/or the mortgagor one month prior written notice...........

 

http://www.anz.com/resources/0/9/09d145004f8e97eb9e44df5fd4649a8e/singapore-property-loans-tc.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabian]

This is my Citibank rate:

 

Please note that your contractual periods are as follows:

· Contractual period from 14 July 2014: SIBOR + 0.95%

· Contractual period from 14 July 2016 SIBOR + 0.85%

· Contractual period from 14 July 2018: SIBOR + 1.25% (Thereafter rates)

Yours is not the package being disputed lah.

 

Your loan is this pattern.

 

findahomeloan.co/Package-Details?fahlpid=259

 

I'm referring to these types.

 

findahomeloan.co/Package-Details?fahlpid=303

 

http://findahomeloan.co/Package-Details?fahlpid=282

 

I think you better check again.

 

 

 

 

3.1 (iii) All loans are granted on the express condition that the Bank may vary the rate of interest payable thereon at any time or from time to time by the Bank giving to the borrower and/or the mortgagor one month prior written notice...........

http://www.anz.com/resources/0/9/09d145004f8e97eb9e44df5fd4649a8e/singapore-property-loans-tc.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

 

I checked the hard copy of my loan T&C which was signed at the conveyance lawyer office.

 

That pdf copy you posted is different from my hard copy.

 

 

 

 

 

[Voodooman]

 

I am with ANZ.

 

I went through the my loan T&C again, I didn't see a clause that allows them to reset the spread but there is a clause that puts a 0.1% floor to both the SOR and SIBOR which it reasonable to me.

 

ANZ current variable package is 0.98% (throughout the entire loan tenure)+ average of (3M SOR+3M SIBOR) or 0.98%+3M SOR.

 

Hypothetically:

If I am have a similar crap Citi package and

I am able to refinance after taking into consideration TDSR and

I intend to stick with the loan over the long term,

I'd switch to ANZ provided ANZ did not revise their clauses to include a similar one as Citi.

 

Because there is always a risk that Citi will jack up the spread again and again and again depending on that jackass sitting in Asia Sq who decides he needs to take the easy way out to hit his KPI by shafting customers in the ass by invoking that clause.

 

BOC also offers a similar type of loan but with a 1% spread (I am not sure if BOC has a similar clause as Citi) instead of 0.98% by ANZ.

 

But if I am on Citi's non-guaranteed fixed spread package and intend to repay the loan fully in 3 years, I'd switch to a 3yr fixed home loan for a peace of mind and certainty on my outlay for loan repayment.

How about this clause?

[Sabian]

How about this clause?

image.jpg

Looks like a very unresonable clause that allows the bank to shaft your ass when they feel they are not making money.

 

You gotta check with DBS on that.

 

My T&C has a specific line referring to the lowest minimum rate which I think is bec SOR either went to 0% or even negative on a net basis for the bank.

 

It doesn't mention that they can alter the spread which is fixed at 0.95% (for my loan) for the entire tenure of the loan.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sabian

[Voodooman]

Looks like a very unresonable clause that allows the bank to shaft your ass when they feel their are not making money.

 

You gotta check with DBS on that.

 

My T&C has a specific line referring to the lowest minimum rate which I think is bec SOR either went to 0% or even negative on a net basis for the bank.

 

It doesn't mention that they can alter the spread which is fixed at 0.95% (for my loan) for the entire tenure of the loan.

It is a standard clause and most banks have it, market practice lah. Some banks even have a clause in their standard T&C stating the bank has total discretion to vary its standard T&C at any time by revising their standard T&C and posting it on their website.

 

It is not even worth the paper it is written on. LOL.

 

Looks like ANZ is quite a gentleman bank.

[Sabian]

It is a standard clause and most banks have it, market practice lah. Some banks even have a clause in their standard T&C stating the bank has total discretion to vary its standard T&C at any time by revising their standard T&C and posting it on their website.

 

It is not even worth the paper it is written on. LOL.

 

Looks like ANZ is quite a gentleman bank.

The jury is still out on whether they are gentleman bank or not.

 

There are also other banks with such clauses but never invoke them.

 

Only 2 I know so far are shittybank and substandard bank.

 

Banks are playing cat and mouse game with credit card too. The recent voyage card from OCBC and optimum card from anz are crap.

 

And OCBC frank card is becoming a joke with so many online exclusions

[Kusje]

It is a standard clause and most banks have it, market practice lah. Some banks even have a clause in their standard T&C stating the bank has total discretion to vary its standard T&C at any time by revising their standard T&C and posting it on their website.

 

It is not even worth the paper it is written on. LOL.

 

Looks like ANZ is quite a gentleman bank.

 

ANZ has the same clause also (from the T&C I found on their website). I posted it above....

That pdf copy you posted is different from my hard copy.

 

Which year did you sign your loan?

 

And please also check if your hardcopy has another clause hidden somewhere saying to refer to some "general terms and conditions" or something to that effect.

[Enye]

So many hidden t&c for private loans

 

Better to take hdb loan if eligible

 

😂

[ShepherdPie]

actually , what is the fuss ?

 

the increase is 0.05 which work out still cheaper that any new loan ( fixed or floating) .

 

after the increase in SOR , it's still lower than 1.88 offer by posb.

 

Really not happy, then switch lor. But i dun see any other bank fare better in terms of $$. If you speaking of "principles". I dont believe its going to be different between foreign or local bank.

 

 

If you were with DBS, OCBC or UOB , chances are you probably paid more for the past years accummulated.

 

 

In any case, the interest rate will be going up was a given, 0.05 increase is very little compare to 0.3 increase on sibor /sor rate.

Edited March 17, 2015 by ShepherdPie

[Kusje]

actually , what is the fuss ?

 

the increase is 0.05 which work out still cheaper that any new loan ( fixed or floating) .

 

after the increase in SOR , it's still lower than 1.88 offer by posb.

 

Really not happy, then switch lor. But i dun see any other bank fare better in terms of $$. If you speaking of "principles". I dont believe its going to be different between foreign or local bank.

 

 

If you were with DBS, OCBC or UOB , chances are you probably paid more for the past years accummulated.

 

 

In any case, the interest rate will be going up was a given, 0.05 increase is very little compare to 0.3 increase on sibor /sor rate.

 

The fuss is that the banks can suka suka change the interest rates.

 

Everyone already knows that SIBOR can fluctuate so that is a given but for the banks to change the spread as well is not reasonable because their profit is supposed to be included in the spread. Under current T&C, what's the point of a borrower doing any evaluation of the loan packages at all? If I evaluate and say that DBS is better than OCBC and then tomorrow DBS changes my spread and OCBC is better then how? Or DBS decides to charge 5% interest when the market rate is 1.6%? Under T&C, this is acceptable!

 

I can't change banks without a penalty right?

[Spring]

 

The fuss is that the banks can suka suka change the interest rates.

 

Everyone already knows that SIBOR can fluctuate so that is a given but for the banks to change the spread as well is not reasonable because their profit is supposed to be included in the spread. Under current T&C, what's the point of a borrower doing any evaluation of the loan packages at all? If I evaluate and say that DBS is better than OCBC and then tomorrow DBS changes my spread and OCBC is better then how? Or DBS decides to charge 5% interest when the market rate is 1.6%? Under T&C, this is acceptable!

 

I can't change banks without a penalty right?

 

Well said and fully agreed. Customers know that SIBOR, SOR etc can fluctuate but no one or at least most did not know that banks could arbitrarily change their spread and its thanks to the internet that this awareness is known too all borrowers.

 

It's not a matter of 0.05% or whatever, it's the principle binding all contracts and also a case of customers being at the mercy of banks in a heavily loaded contract in bank's favour which is unfair practices IMO

[F10_Blackhawk]

 

The fuss is that the banks can suka suka change the interest rates.

 

Everyone already knows that SIBOR can fluctuate so that is a given but for the banks to change the spread as well is not reasonable because their profit is supposed to be included in the spread. Under current T&C, what's the point of a borrower doing any evaluation of the loan packages at all? If I evaluate and say that DBS is better than OCBC and then tomorrow DBS changes my spread and OCBC is better then how? Or DBS decides to charge 5% interest when the market rate is 1.6%? Under T&C, this is acceptable!

 

I can't change banks without a penalty right?

 

Legally speaking, they can change it as it's provided for in the T&C. No use crying over it. Not happy, complain louder but not here in MCF. Go MAS, Case, MSM etc which I believe it's already been picked up by MSM. let's see if there is any reaction or not but I feel nothing much will come out of it.

 

That's why in some less developed countries which I shall not name, they buy cars and properties with cold hard cash. It's so hard to convince the people to take financing....they just dun trust banks.

[Porker]

See lah tell yall pay full cash yall don't want muayhahahaha 😂

[macrotrust2]

Ai ya complain what- Bank lend you money and you expect them to help you to save money.

 

Go to the SGX future market to hedge vs rising interest rate. There are many interest rate future contract and strategy to hedge and not forgetting option. Do it the professional way, if you have million dollar mortgage loan.

 

If your housing loan is the underlying asset, there are many derivative instruments to use and they are not expensive to hedge..

[Enye]

Ai ya complain what- Bank lend you money and you expect them to help you to save money.

 

Go to the SGX future market to hedge vs rising interest rate. There are many interest rate future contract and strategy to hedge and not forgetting option. Do it the professional way, if you have million dollar mortgage loan.

 

If your housing loan is the underlying asset, there are many derivative instruments to use and they are not expensive to hedge..

越陷越深

😅

[Voodooman]

Ai ya complain what- Bank lend you money and you expect them to help you to save money.

 

Go to the SGX future market to hedge vs rising interest rate. There are many interest rate future contract and strategy to hedge and not forgetting option. Do it the professional way, if you have million dollar mortgage loan.

 

If your housing loan is the underlying asset, there are many derivative instruments to use and they are not expensive to hedge..

Got min lot size?

 

Why so troublesome? I bought a interest rate cap long time ago from CPF. 2.5% p.a. and it is free.

[Kusje]

Got min lot size?

 

Why so troublesome? I bought a interest rate cap long time ago from CPF. 2.5% p.a. and it is free.

 

Isn't the CPF rate 2.6% at the moment?

 

Also, it isn't capped at 2.6%. CPF loan interest rate is linked to the CPF interest rates that you receive on your OA (currently at 2.5%). This rate is legislated to be at a min of 2.5% but it can be higher depending on prevailing interest rates.

 

The computed OA interest rate – derived from the major local banks’ interest rates from November 2014 to January 2015 – worked out to be 0.21 per cent per annum. As this was below the legislated minimum of 2.5 per cent per annum, the OA interest rate will be maintained at the minimum amount, the CPF Board said in a news release.

 

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cpf-interest-rates-to/1664252.html

 

Once saving rates go above 2.5%, the CPF loan interest rate will most likely always be lower than bank interest rates since banks are unlikely to give you more interest for deposits than they are charging for interest on loans. However, this still shows that your loan is by no means capped at 2.5%.