Jump to content

MyCarForum Logo
Search
Magnifying glass
  • Search this thread
  • Reply to this topic
62 replies to this topic | 285 praises

#1

Posted 05 September 2016 - 05:52 PM

Piyopico
  • THREAD STARTER
  • Piyopico
    Supercharged
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    6,292
      Joined: 08 March 2007
      Posts: 3,296
     
Understand there are legal minds here, so would appreciate your input.

I lease a few equipments and have been paying the fee for a few months to even up to 2 years cos they are leased separately.

Only a few equipment has got signed contracts, many equipment did not come with any written or signed contracts as the salesman either did not prepare any or he prepared contracts with company names that are not those that were requested. He was supposed to change the names and come back with new contracts to be signed.

So a few months to more than 2 years have passed. No contracts signed for many equipments but we have been paying the invoices.

1. For equipments without any contracts that were signed by us, is there an implied contract?
2. For those contracts that were signed by us but we noticed that the company details are incorrect and requested that they be amended, are they valid even though we never receive any copy?

Right now the leasing company insist we are under "contract" but is refusing to provide details f when they end and insist we refer to our own copies.

Am stuck, I dun have any contract to refer to.

3. Can they refuse to give me a copy of these "contracts"? I just need certainty as to the expiry dates.
4. Worth taking it thru the legal route cos it's not a lot of money involved and legal fees won't be cheap?

Appreciate comments especially those who have met cases like this.

Thanks.

#2

Posted 05 September 2016 - 06:01 PM

Jman888
  • Jman888
    Moderator
      Joined: 19 August 2002
      Posts: 45,639
     
both were at fault, your company didn't get thing right before accepting the equipment, they didn't complete the paper work.

were there any invoice billed every month? is your company going to terminate the lease before expiry?

nothing to go legal if both are still in good business term and need each other business. just have to sort out the terms and come to an agreement or compromise.
Vid praised this
骑白马的不一定是王子,可能是唐僧;带翅膀的也不一定是天使,有时候是鸟人。

#3

Posted 05 September 2016 - 06:44 PM

Piyopico
  • THREAD STARTER
  • Piyopico
    Supercharged
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    6,292
      Joined: 08 March 2007
      Posts: 3,296
     
I know both parties at fault. Relations strained. Easily can find replacements.

They reply in email they are not obligated to give us any contracts and they will only entertain our auditors or legal demand for evidence of any contracts. Does not sound right cos even if I do that they cannot come out with any contracts cos many equipments have none that were ever signed.

Am looking for win win solution but I just wanna know legally will the courts construe there are implied contracts? A fren that is trained legally but does not practice is of the view there are implied contracts.

Will seek outcome with least financial consequences. Makes no business sense to slog it out. Am prepared to fulfill the "implied contracts".

Edited by Piyopico, 05 September 2016 - 06:46 PM.


#4

Posted 05 September 2016 - 07:25 PM

Othello
  • Premium member
    Othello
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    23,963
      Joined: 25 August 2002
      Posts: 7,852
     

Just serve them a service termination notice and the contracts will magically appear lah 


Volvobrick, FourZero and Kangadrool praised this
New to iHerb? Use coupon code MCG340 for up to $10.00 off your first order.
http://www.iherb.com?rcode=mcg340

#5

Posted 05 September 2016 - 07:40 PM

Myxilplix
  • Myxilplix
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    14,612
      Joined: 22 May 2012
      Posts: 5,533
     

Am not a lawyer but sounds like there are implied contracts as there is consideration involved (their side has provided the equipment and your side has been making payments on it).

 

Pull up all correspondence and documents going as far back as possible. It usually helps when the matter is being reviewed, whether by your side or in the worst case a lawyer or court.

 

But seriously this type of thing can usually be sorted with a face-to-face meeting unless they're being total a**holes. Sounds like you're not trying to back out of anything, just trying to make sure all paperwork is put in order. But if they're being negative make sure all correspondence between both sides is being saved so that if it becomes a legal dispute there is evidence to show that your side is willing to come to the table and their side is not.

 

Not sure if this is purely a local issue but i'd also review all the terms and conditions of any agreements you have on hand (even those with the wrong company name) and keep an eye out for the law and jurisdiction clauses or how disputes are to be handled.

 


A line of paint on a road holds more authority than I ever will.

#6

Posted 05 September 2016 - 09:30 PM

Watwheels
  • Premium member
    Watwheels
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    40,033
      Joined: 21 May 2006
      Posts: 22,610
     

IMO until you find the contract and find out its contents and details your questions will remain unanswered. Nobody is that great to advise you w/o the necessary info. You die also must dig out the contract. Coz they already made it clear they won't give another copy to you.

 

Finding a lawyer won't make your problems disappear coz you will still need to provide a copy of the contract for him to study. He will look at you and give you the wtf look. He's not Sherlock Holmes. It's not the great mystery of the lost contract. If you get what I mean.


Edited by Watwheels, 05 September 2016 - 09:37 PM.

Night King

#7

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:16 PM

Piyopico
  • THREAD STARTER
  • Piyopico
    Supercharged
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    6,292
      Joined: 08 March 2007
      Posts: 3,296
     
My question relates to whether there is an implied contract for those equipments that I did not sign any physical contract.

If there is, I guess any contractual terms would follow as per those that are set in black and white.

The situation now is most are without any signed contracts.

#8

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:23 PM

Davidtch
  • Premium member
    Davidtch
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    17,948
      Joined: 18 March 2006
      Posts: 12,119
     

IMO until you find the contract and find out its contents and details your questions will remain unanswered. Nobody is that great to advise you w/o the necessary info. You die also must dig out the contract. Coz they already made it clear they won't give another copy to you.

 

Finding a lawyer won't make your problems disappear coz you will still need to provide a copy of the contract for him to study. He will look at you and give you the wtf look. He's not Sherlock Holmes. It's not the great mystery of the lost contract. If you get what I mean.

 

Read properly before reply.



#9

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:25 PM

Jman888
  • Jman888
    Moderator
      Joined: 19 August 2002
      Posts: 45,639
     

My question relates to whether there is an implied contract for those equipments that I did not sign any physical contract.

If there is, I guess any contractual terms would follow as per those that are set in black and white.

The situation now is most are without any signed contracts.

there could be a few older contracts for first few equipment leased, when you take more and more equipment, it is in a way implied that all standard terms apply to the new leases.

is the lease term typed in the monthly invoice? example for retail business, if each lease equipment is tie to the each store opened then it is easy to trace the beginning period of the lease (leaser maybe lazy to prepare new lease or delay in providing one).

anyway unless your company going to terminate all the lease equipment, then it is the leaser who need to show proof of the compensation for early termination as suggested by othello.
骑白马的不一定是王子,可能是唐僧;带翅膀的也不一定是天使,有时候是鸟人。

#10

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:30 PM

Vid
  • Premium member
    Vid
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    72,774
      Joined: 08 September 2010
      Posts: 17,366
     

I know both parties at fault. Relations strained. Easily can find replacements.

They reply in email they are not obligated to give us any contracts and they will only entertain our auditors or legal demand for evidence of any contracts. Does not sound right cos even if I do that they cannot come out with any contracts cos many equipments have none that were ever signed.

Am looking for win win solution but I just wanna know legally will the courts construe there are implied contracts? A fren that is trained legally but does not practice is of the view there are implied contracts.

Will seek outcome with least financial consequences. Makes no business sense to slog it out. Am prepared to fulfill the "implied contracts".

 

Return the equipment and find a new company to lease them. If the company does not even entertain a simple request for contract details, it is not worth doing business with.



#11

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:36 PM

Chongster
  • Chongster
    5th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    1,420
      Joined: 24 May 2007
      Posts: 1,303
     
those with contracts are the contracts all the same? Those without contracts, can the same contract terms apply? If so, their best position is that those without contracts are subject to the same terms as those with contract.

The fact that they are telling you to refer to your own copies obviously mean they also don't have any contracts and vindicates your version of the facts!
Little_prince praised this

#12

Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:50 PM

Piyopico
  • THREAD STARTER
  • Piyopico
    Supercharged
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    6,292
      Joined: 08 March 2007
      Posts: 3,296
     
The contracts can vary in terms and lease amount even though they are the same equipments.

Very vexing. Am tempted to repudiate all those without contracts but monetary wise it will not amount to a lot of difference.

How can I be held to terms that I dun even have a clear idea of? That is if I am held to any implied contract at all.
Little_prince praised this

#13

Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:04 PM

Chongster
  • Chongster
    5th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    1,420
      Joined: 24 May 2007
      Posts: 1,303
     

The contracts can vary in terms and lease amount even though they are the same equipments.

Very vexing. Am tempted to repudiate all those without contracts but monetary wise it will not amount to a lot of difference.

How can I be held to terms that I dun even have a clear idea of? That is if I am held to any implied contract at all.


Assuming your version of facts is true, then there is factually no written contract for those without contracts. There is maybe oral contract if you agree orally to certain terms. If not, There is likely a contract implied by conduct because you pay the rent.

Assuming it is a implied contract by conduct, only the price can be implied with certainty because you have been paying. The duration and notice period can only be implied or inferred from your other contracts or from industry standard if any. If you want to terminate and you can live with the term of your other contract, then just serve termination notice based on same terms as the average of your other contracts, or the term of the last signed contract. If there is no oral or written contract, the supplier can't argue that he deserves anything better than this.
Jungus and orion2006 praised this

#14

Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:37 AM

Kusje
  • Kusje
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    14,825
      Joined: 05 July 2007
      Posts: 7,210
     

My question relates to whether there is an implied contract for those equipments that I did not sign any physical contract.

If there is, I guess any contractual terms would follow as per those that are set in black and white.

The situation now is most are without any signed contracts.

 

If there is nothing signed and just an "implied contract", how can any party determine when the lease ends?

 

Just send the item back to them and stop paying the invoices lor.


That is all.

#15

Posted 06 September 2016 - 01:35 AM

Porker
  • Porker
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    35,020
      Joined: 03 August 2004
      Posts: 22,719
     

My question relates to whether there is an implied contract for those equipments that I did not sign any physical contract.

If there is, I guess any contractual terms would follow as per those that are set in black and white.

The situation now is most are without any signed contracts.

Yes I believe Singapore's contract law allows implied contract. Please check with a lawyer to verify your recourse.
FourZero praised this

#16

Posted 06 September 2016 - 08:39 AM

Adrianli
  • Premium member
    Adrianli
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    36,690
      Joined: 29 June 2003
      Posts: 17,554
     

Recently, my company also intend to change travel service provider. The current one was with us for ages and the signed contract was already lost. So we talked to them and came to an agreement of the termination date.

 

Just sit down and talk to the other party face to face and tell them your intention. Then come to an agreement when is the last day of the contract, same for my company.

 

 

 

For us, the new travel service provider was not able to accommodate our needs, just barely one month into new contract. Both companies terminated the contract and now we are back with the original travel service provider who had served our needs for so many years. They know what we need and able to accommodate us.

 

All these was from Business Improvement Dept. For me, I think they eat full full, nothing better to do. One big round and go back to original provider. :a-fun:  :a-no: I prefer this original travel provider, just an email and they arrange my travel. The new one must register at their website lah, put in ur preference lah, then when u want to travel, they get three routes lah, a few emails here and there lah. :a-whiteflag:  [:|]


Othello praised this

#17

Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:01 PM

Chongster
  • Chongster
    5th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    1,420
      Joined: 24 May 2007
      Posts: 1,303
     

Recently, my company also intend to change travel service provider. The current one was with us for ages and the signed contract was already lost. So we talked to them and came to an agreement of the termination date.

Just sit down and talk to the other party face to face and tell them your intention. Then come to an agreement when is the last day of the contract, same for my company.



For us, the new travel service provider was not able to accommodate our needs, just barely one month into new contract. Both companies terminated the contract and now we are back with the original travel service provider who had served our needs for so many years. They know what we need and able to accommodate us.

All these was from Business Improvement Dept. For me, I think they eat full full, nothing better to do. One big round and go back to original provider. :a-fun: :a-no: I prefer this original travel provider, just an email and they arrange my travel. The new one must register at their website lah, put in ur preference lah, then when u want to travel, they get three routes lah, a few emails here and there lah. :a-whiteflag: [:|]


You working at AHTC???

#18

Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:18 PM

Ingenius
  • Premium member
    Ingenius
    Supercharged
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    6,799
      Joined: 19 September 2009
      Posts: 2,661
     
I feel ts should just consult a lawyer about the matter.
Argueing with a fool proves there are two.

#19

Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:28 PM

Sp4wn
  • Premium member
    Sp4wn
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    16,095
      Joined: 03 September 2011
      Posts: 6,387
     

Yes I believe Singapore's contract law allows implied contract. Please check with a lawyer to verify your recourse.

 

i agree. I remember reading a case where the tenant claimed there is no tenancy agreement with the landlord, but they kept paying the rental for a few more years after the TA expired, and the judge came to the conclusion that there was indeed an implied contract, and in TS case, you paid money for goods/services rendered.

 

with that being said, if you want to end on a good note, just ask them what is their termination policy.

 

secondly, you can always tell them you need the copies because of XYZ reason, and if such documents are not provided within X amount of days, it will be very difficult to carry on business with them, and that yours is simply a reasonable request to ask for copies.

 

if in doubt, escalate to their upper management.

 

if you are dealing with the boss, then something is not right somewhere.



#20

Posted 06 September 2016 - 12:40 PM

Jamesc
  • Premium member
    Jamesc
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    97,684
      Joined: 21 January 2007
      Posts: 12,320
     

Don't bother with these high price lawyers,

 

you get better advice in MCF and for free.  [thumbsup]

 

If someone gave me something

 

without making me sign it,

 

money, equipment, gold bars etc

 

I won't be giving it back as there

 

is no proof that I received it. 

 

:D

 

 

 

 


Edited by Jamesc, 06 September 2016 - 12:47 PM.

The Secret to Happiness
is to Simplify and
not to Multiply.


Back to Lite & EZ  ·  Non-Car Related Top Reply to this topic



Quick Reply



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users