Penalties for crime must reflect public opinion: Shanmugam

[Windwaver]

lol... okok  back to the topic 

 

since the gahmen like to ask for so much feedback...   and EDMW have too many passionate people who speak with no repercussions...  

 

why dont we have a thread here...    let the sane ones thrash it out..  

 

tell SPF...  to keep track of the thread.. and answer ..  

 

Yes, an EDMW in mycarforum sounds good.

 

Must create more jobs for lawyers ma.

[Philipkee]

as much as EDMW is a collective of people bearing similar opinions, there are many others outside of EDMW who think the same.

If for every public outcry, there will be a judicial review, our judges and lawyers will be damn busy, reviewing the same case again and again until the public is no longer 'crying'.

 

If need be, why not jury system? since we all like to be judge, lawyer and jury, all in one.

Jury system might not be possible or even a good thing because in Singapore we are so small and everyone so connected over the Internet. It is close to impossible to have a jury which is untainted or who can be neutral even before the case starts. In places like USA there is at least the option of holding the trial in another place.

 

For the "normal cases" yea it is good but for those sensational ones like the chc one, honestly speaking, how many will focus on evidence of kh guilt while ignoring evidence of his innocence and vice versa instead of strictly looking at the arguments and make a decision based in strictly on what is presented in court and not based on any preconceived notions?

 

So jury system also has its flaws. May have been useful before the days of Internet but now the social media can rile up people even before the case goes the hero court so any potential juror, esp in a place as small as Singapore, is probably already having preconceived notions even before the first day of trial.

[DACH]

Are these people turning into the juridical system here into another kind of populism when the same group of people frowns upon their own defined "populism" when it comes to political competition?

What is happening to the country that allow these so called "leaders" to change the juridical system based on their whim and fancy? The system that was set up by the older generation of leaders decades ago.

[Lala81]

How come suddenly so many people here now are now arguing that ill informed public opinion don't matter?

 

Just cos Shanmugan brought it up?

 

I thought a lot of people were insinuating the judges gave a biased ruling on the KH case? (And yes I've read both threads enough to know who are the guys claiming both sides of the argument)

 

 

Frankly ... it just seems to me that a lot of people think their own opinion is esteemed 

Myself included 

[Lala81]

Though Shanmugan is right, if the injustice is perceived by too many, like as in the CHC or sexual predator case. It diminishes the rule of law.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Lala81

[Shull]

Can take public opinion into account when passing unpopular laws and legislations too?   

[Yewheng]

The law design itself it is actually quite good. It is the people who exercise the law that is not good. So when some sentence are passed, it creates debate because of the judge that give sentence that does not make sense. Like the Lexus driver hit cyclist and get away due to Lexus driver said she thought she hit a tree brunch. Then there is another case where this person is crossing the road and check clear on the direction of the car is coming, never did the person expect there is this car reversed and hit him. Judge rules the car driver no wrong and pin point fault to the person who cross the road who did not keep a look out for reverse driver. What the logic is this.

So these judge is the problem. So get rid of them and set good example to ensure other judge better be a good judge.

I think sharmugam come out and say penalties for crime must reflect on public opinion is because of public outcry where there are just cases of judge give sentence which does not make sense. Like for the above 2 classic case and now KH case. So now must set in place for public opinion.

But for what I feel, actually it is not necessary to set in place for public opinion but get rid of bad judge and that will solve the problem.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Yewheng

[Jungus]

Yarlor, action speaks louder than words mah....

More than 7 years long dragging till today than talk about sentiment or out cry, it's typically NATO work.

7 years prosecuting a case all the way to appeal and onwards to criminal revision is NATO to you?!

 

Wow, you must be a real man of action....

[Jungus]

The law design itself it is actually quite good. It is the people who exercise the law that is not good. So when some sentence are passed, it creates debate because of the judge that give sentence that does not make sense. Like the Lexus driver hit cyclist and get away due to Lexus driver said she thought she hit a tree brunch. Then there is another case where this person is crossing the road and check clear on the direction of the car is coming, never did the person expect there is this car reversed and hit him. Judge rules the car driver no wrong and pin point fault to the person who cross the road who did not keep a look out for reverse driver. What the logic is this.

 

So these judge is the problem. So get rid of them and set good example to ensure other judge better be a good judge.

 

I think sharmugam come out and say penalties for crime must reflect on public opinion is because of public outcry where there are just cases of judge give sentence which does not make sense. Like for the above 2 classic case and now KH case. So now must set in place for public opinion.

 

But for what I feel, actually it is not necessary to set in place for public opinion but get rid of bad judge and that will solve the problem.

Your first example is a criminal case where there is this principle that benefit of doubt goes to accused. I'm guessing that's what happened there....

 

The 2nd example is a civil case. Here I'm betting your facts are wrong...

 

Besides, these cases are pretty old. Given the number of cases since, if these are your best shots then I think we not so bad lah...

[Yewheng]

Your first example is a criminal case where there is this principle that benefit of doubt goes to accused. I'm guessing that's what happened there....

 

The 2nd example is a civil case. Here I'm betting your facts are wrong...

 

Besides, these cases are pretty old. Given the number of cases since, if these are your best shots then I think we not so bad lah...

[2BDriver]

Through your elected law maker lor.

You think MP is your father ???

Suka suka boleh minta tolong ???

Where is your your mentality with constitutional law governing our nation ???

[Yewheng]

You think MP is your father ???

Suka suka boleh minta tolong ???

Where is your your mentality with constitutional law governing our nation ???

Yes, never mix politics with law together. The public opinion thing is more towards politics already. So quite dangerous to add in that.

[2BDriver]

Yes, never mix politics with law together. The public opinion thing is more towards politics already. So quite dangerous to add in that.

This is the problem with our shallow minded, MP debating constitutional laws in Parliament and pass it, talk like he can suka suka changing the penal codes endorsed.

Sg. Shallow minded people had make all these stupid complains without knowing the governance had taken placed since 50 over years ago.

Edited April 27, 2017 by 2BDriver

[2BDriver]

The original question was "Can take public opinion into account when passing unpopular laws and legislations too? [mad]"

 

Only MPs can pass laws in Singapore, who else can ? My father ? Don't look him too up lor.

Then...

What the hell you talking about seeking MP helps ???

Are you insane ????

[2BDriver]

Seeking help ? Wu sala boh ? He asked get public opinion, the public opinion in passing law is through your MP's actions and vote. He is the representation of your opinion. You are the public.

The case dragged farking 7 year's, you talking about renewals or what ?

Any law maker would aware in this case long ago, not to mentioned man on the street in shocked of knowing it involved 50 millions of CBT !

Seeking help ? Wu sala boh ? He asked get public opinion, the public opinion in passing law is through your MP's actions and vote. He is the representation of your opinion. You are the public.

The requisition of public opinions are just lip service !

A man like my ah gong will settle it within the people's will and not talking out for opinions.

Edited April 27, 2017 by 2BDriver

[2BDriver]

Through your elected law maker lor.

You name me which particular law passed in our 50 over year's of constitutional law governing with regards to citizens requisition ???

If you can't ? Then shut up !

[Yewheng]

Yes although the case had been dragging very long and public have very strong opinion on this case. On the surface setting penalties for crimes must reflect public opinion seems good as KH will sure get what he deserved for the sentence. But there is one problem. That is if public opinion can affect judge sentence, aren't it is become politics? The judge supposed to be natural and no matter what pressure, he must ensure he be fair and not just because of public opinion say so.

 

That being said, because of past cases where judges seems to be come to verdict that makes no sense. Thats why many want public opinion to be included and reflected for judge consideration for penalties. This one simple, remove bad judge lor. No need go all the way to set public opinion to reflect on penalties.

[2BDriver]

Yes although the case had been dragging very long and public have very strong opinion on this case. On the surface setting penalties for crimes must reflect public opinion seems good as KH will sure get what he deserved for the sentence. But there is one problem. That is if public opinion can affect judge sentence, aren't it is become politics? The judge supposed to be natural and no matter what pressure, he must ensure he be fair and not just because of public opinion say so.

 

That being said, because of past cases where judges seems to be come to verdict that makes no sense. Thats why many want public opinion to be included and reflected for judge consideration for penalties. This one simple, remove bad judge lor. No need go all the way to set public opinion to reflect on penalties.

Mr.YEWHENG, THE J's are human too, the questions are...

Bending or not ?

If not ? There are no public grievance !!

Sleep early lah. Shut eye better.

You are here to express your opinions, and got shut down with your shallow mindedness of constitutional governance, you asking me to close my eyes to sleep ?

I will make myself hard enough for you to debate what's wrong !

Hokkien dialect says... Pah geh geh tan lu !

Edited April 27, 2017 by 2BDriver