Penalties for crime must reflect public opinion: Shanmugam

[Mason016]

Senior counsel 1, Former AO turned academic 0.

 

https://www.facebook.com/donald.l.fc/posts/10154697073138299

 

 

[Yewheng]

Senior counsel 1, Former AO turned academic 0.

 

https://www.facebook.com/donald.l.fc/posts/10154697073138299

Fully agreed with him. That's what I also trying to bring across the point.

[Wind30]

I just read what is on the news, it happened quite long time back and that leave a very deep impression on what the judge is doing. Of coz there are other case, but these 2 case just come out of my mind 1st. So can imagine how deep the bad impression it is.

 

It is very dangerous to mix politics with law together and that's why I feel should just leave as it is no need to add in penalties must reflect public opinions.

Me too. The Lexus driver case has made me question our judicial process... it really made an impact on how I view our judges. So u are not the only one

[Yewheng]

Me too. The Lexus driver case has made me question our judicial process... it really made an impact on how I view our judges. So u are not the only one

The judicial system itself got no problem. It is the judge that is the issue. My view is, get rid of bad judge and things will improve.. Edited April 28, 2017 by Yewheng

[Karoon]

you all very smart can understand.

 

When I read I dun understand. Like it can be this but it might not be that.

 

Like that better don say.

[1fast1]

Senior counsel 1, Former AO turned academic 0.

 

https://www.facebook.com/donald.l.fc/posts/10154697073138299

 

I am rapidly losing respect for Shanmugam. And I did respect him before.

 

I think I'll just call him Sham for short from now on. Fitting.

[Benarsenal]

There's something called vocal minority and silent majority. Very clear example is GE. 70% still vote for incumbent even though so many complaints and problems.

 

Just because there's a (perceived) public uproar, doesn't mean that it's an actual reflection of public sentiment. Then who do you listen to then? 

[Playtime]

There's something called vocal minority and silent majority. Very clear example is GE. 70% still vote for incumbent even though so many complaints and problems.

 

Just because there's a (perceived) public uproar, doesn't mean that it's an actual reflection of public sentiment. Then who do you listen to then? 

 

The hidden dagger here is, "public uproar" can be genuine or can be manufactured.

 

case study.

 

TT Durai.

he was untouchable for a long time, then he stepped on the wrong toes and the ST went full hulk smash on its coverage. Whipping up public sentiments.

Then when the Durai saga took on a life of its own and started to touch some powerful backers, almost over night the coverage died. 

 

 

The power to whip up public sentiments for political ends have been well known, the power to use it as a weapon against targetted individuals is also well known.

 

As the chinese saying goes, guan zhi liang ke kou.

My first tot was, this is a possible attempt at weaponising "public uproars" for future use?

[Benarsenal]

The hidden dagger here is, "public uproar" can be genuine or can be manufactured.

 

case study.

 

TT Durai.

he was untouchable for a long time, then he stepped on the wrong toes and the ST went full hulk smash on its coverage. Whipping up public sentiments.

Then when the Durai saga took on a life of its own and started to touch some powerful backers, almost over night the coverage died. 

 

 

The power to whip up public sentiments for political ends have been well known, the power to use it as a weapon against targetted individuals is also well known.

 

As the chinese saying goes, guan zhi liang ke kou.

My first tot was, this is a possible attempt at weaponising "public uproars" for future use?

 

Exactly. Especially now when the "media" can so easily use their own agenda to create their own reaction.

 

All it takes is for a certain percentage of people to believe whatever ST chooses to put and publish and you get your public reaction. Same goes for "alternative" media sites like ASS/Mothership/TOC etc etc.

[Blueray]

3 bands for sentencing rapists spelt out

 

 

Court of Appeal's new framework requires judges to size up 'offence-specific' factors

 

The Court of Appeal yesterday laid down a comprehensive framework for sentencing rapists, in a move to promote a more consistent and transparent practice in meting out appropriate punishments.

 

The three-judge apex court - comprising Chief Justice Sundaresh Menon and Judges of Appeal Chao Hick Tin and Andrew Phang - set out three sentencing bands that correspond to how serious the rape is.

 

The levels of severity are based on the number and intensity of various aggravating factors in a case.

 

The sentencing range for Band 1 is 10 to 13 years' jail and six strokes of the cane; Band 2 is 13 to 17 years' jail and 12 strokes of the cane; and Band 3 is 17 to 20 years' jail and 18 strokes of the cane.

 

In doing so, the court dismantled the previous framework, which divided rapes into four categories: those with no aggravating or mitigating factors; those with specific aggravating factors; multiple rapes; and those committed by offenders who will remain a threat to society indefinitely.

 

This framework, set out by then Justice V.K. Rajah in 2006, had largely guided sentencing for rapists in the last 10 years.

 

Yesterday, Justice Chao noted that the old framework was a response to the "limitations" of the single benchmark sentence of 10 years' jail and six strokes of the cane set in 1993, which did not provide enough guidance.

 

The framework has "brought a measure of consistency" in the sentences imposed in rape offences but "suffers from several problems" that needed reform, he said.

 

For one thing, the four categories did not cover the full spectrum of circumstances in which rape may be committed, resulting in a "clustering of sentencing outcomes", he said.

 

Also, Category 2 lacked "conceptual coherence" and covered a wide range of situations of varying gravity. Cases can run the gamut from the violent rape of a young toddler to the rape of a domestic helper by her employer.

 

He noted that good sentencing guidelines should ensure consistency, maintain a level of flexibility and discretion for sentencing judges, encourage transparency in reasoning, and create a "coherent picture of sentencing for a particular offence".

 

As such, a "fundamental change" to the way the sentencing framework for rape is structured is required.

 

A judge who is sentencing a rapist should now look at "offence-specific" factors related to the way in which the crime was committed and the harm caused, to decide which band the offender falls under. Aggravating factors include group rape, premeditation, an abuse of trust, violence, and rape of a vulnerable victim.

 

Cases with no or very limited aggravating factors fall into Band 1; cases with two or more aggravating factors fall into Band 2; and extremely serious cases, based on the number and intensity of aggravating factors, fall into Band 3.

 

After determining the band, the judge should look at the circumstances of each offender to calibrate the sentence upwards or downwards. "Offender-specific" factors include whether there was remorse and the age of the offender.

 

Justice Chao made it clear that the benchmark sentences applied to convictions following trial. In cases where the offender pleads guilty, the court can assess the value of the plea as a mitigating factor. He noted that the new framework "does not effect a radical change in the sentencing benchmarks".

 

"For the most part, it seeks only to rationalise existing judicial practice to promote a more systematic, coherent, consistent and transparent approach towards sentencing in this area," he said.

 

The chance to review the sentencing framework arose from the case of cobbler Terence Ng Kean Meng, 46, who was appealing against his sentence of 13 years' jail and 12 strokes of the cane for statutory rape. (He had another sex charge and the total sentence was 14 years' jail and 14 strokes but he did not appeal against the other charge.)

 

In 2013, when he was 42, he befriended a 13-year-old schoolgirl and invited her to his flat.

 

After finding out she had run away from home, he offered to be her godfather. Her parents agreed.

 

They began spending time together and she agreed to have sex with him.

 

Applying the new framework to Ng's case, the court found the original sentence was appropriate and dismissed his appeal.

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/3-bands-for-sentencing-rapists-spelt-out

[Datsun366]

I saw a foreign dad or a father who spoke Japanese to his daughter. Or someone i assume to be his daughter.

Now, it was in the urinal area of a male bathroom.

He brought her close and her face was less than a foot from his wee wee while he buang air.

Perhaps as a legitimate father he might be carrying over defensive skills from the old country. 

Never have i thought to bring my kindergarten age daughter to pee with me or stand so close to me next to a row of urinals in use.

Is it a crime?

I was like no i am not going to expose myself to a little girl.

What do you think?

Its a Suntec urinal btw.

[Playtime]

1 hour ago, Datsun366 said:

I saw a foreign dad or a father who spoke Japanese to his daughter. Or someone i assume to be his daughter.

Now, it was in the urinal area of a male bathroom.

He brought her close and her face was less than a foot from his wee wee while he buang air.

Perhaps as a legitimate father he might be carrying over defensive skills from the old country. 

Never have i thought to bring my kindergarten age daughter to pee with me or stand so close to me next to a row of urinals in use.

Is it a crime?

I was like no i am not going to expose myself to a little girl.

What do you think?

Its a Suntec urinal btw.

I heard the Japanese do bath together as a family.. so the concept of nudity and it's relation to sexuality may be different. 🤔

[Kusje]

2 hours ago, Datsun366 said:

I saw a foreign dad or a father who spoke Japanese to his daughter. Or someone i assume to be his daughter.

Now, it was in the urinal area of a male bathroom.

He brought her close and her face was less than a foot from his wee wee while he buang air.

Perhaps as a legitimate father he might be carrying over defensive skills from the old country. 

Never have i thought to bring my kindergarten age daughter to pee with me or stand so close to me next to a row of urinals in use.

Is it a crime?

I was like no i am not going to expose myself to a little girl.

What do you think?

Its a Suntec urinal btw.

No need to oversexualize the body. A penis is just a penis. 

If he's the only one looking after the daughter, don't bring her into the toilet then leave her outside with the real perverts?

BTW, just realize I could understand this post of yours - good job.