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46 replies to this topic | 80 praises

#1

Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:45 PM

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The compact SUV segment is the probably the most competitive segment in the market today, with superb new entries such as the new CR-V (my personal favourite), new Tiguan, new CX-5, highly acclaimed Sportage, Tucson, facelifted X-Trail, Forester etc. And pricing in Singapore spans from SGD110k-ish for base versions of Forester/Tucson to almost SGD200k for the Tiguan R-line.

 

Putting aside the question of which is best, I wondered which is best value. Because of differing AD margins, OMV games, and pricing dynamics due to strong brand loyalties, the car pricing in Singapore can be quite out of line with the rest of the world. I wanted to figure out, for instance, how fair is the SGD160k being asked for the new CR-V, Tiguan etc?

 

Have set out the summary table in the spreadsheet link below, and the methodology below that. There are many possible methodologies, but this is a quick and dirty one that appears to provide reasonably defensible conclusions. 

 

Essentially, the quick and dirty conclusions appear to be:-

 

1. Median SUV is Nissan X-Trail, which is priced about at the average price of the segment for both Singapore and Australia

 

2. Best value compact SUVs in SIngapore are

- Forester XT: Priced 8% above average in Australia and 9% below average in Singapore

- Sportage 2.0 GT: Priced 7% above average in Australia and 10% below average in Singapore

 

3. For the new SUVs:

- CR-V: the 7 seater CR-V is considerably better value that the 5-seater.

- Tiguan 1.4: Not great value if priced at SGD160k. In Australia, this is priced below the equivalent X-Trail. 

- CX-5: Best value for a new SUV.

 

It was an interesting experiment for me, so thought I'd share the conclusions above. Am not saying this is the definitive guide, but its a useful perspective. 

 

Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Methodology:-

1. Australia pricing was used as the comp set because:-

- Both RHD countries

- Both countries import all the cars being compared, so no local content taxation distortions

- All cars compared are non-luxury models, so no luxury tax considerations in Australia

- All are Cat B cars, so no COE distortions in Singapore

 

2. Used mid to high spec cars for comps

- Pricing range is between AUD35 to 42k 

- No point comparing poverty spec versions because the versions sold in Singapore are all mid to high spec

 

3. Compared cars using identical / similar spec levels in both countries

- Had to make some manual adjustments for engine/features set differential in Australia for some cars

 

4. Used recommended retail price in Australia, and listed in Singapore 

- For Forester XT, last known pricing was about SGD127k, but other cars are mostly listed price

- Can amend spreadsheet if anyone can provide updated numbers

 

 

Edited by Fungyee77, 12 August 2017 - 09:52 PM.

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#2

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:03 PM

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Why compare with Australia? Totally different market. Uniquely Singapore issues with regards to new car purchases are - COE, OMV, CEVS, taxes, etc.

When we talk of value in Singapore, I consider the annual depreciation $ versus specifications & features of the cars. There is also the brand value to factor in too. How much $ to attach to MB or BMW vs Hyundai or Honda etc is very subjective. But badge goes a long way to perceived value of cars. As the Hokkien saying goes: "want cheap, want fresh & want big". Best value is subjective and dependent on personal biases too. Different folks perceive value differently. Buy car is emotional purchase, so the heart most times will rule over the head.

Edited by white_black, 12 August 2017 - 10:10 PM.

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#3

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:12 PM

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spore car price cannot compare to any country ... no way.
any car sold in the market increased by 300% in spore and yet the car is scrapped in 10 years
unique market
unique price
unique buying criteria
unique ownself shiok ownself
no comparison whatsoever
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#4

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:12 PM

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Why compare with Australia? Totally different market. Uniquely Singapore issues with regards to new car purchases are - COE, OMV, CEVS, taxes, etc.

When we talk of value in Singapore, I consider the annual depreciation $ versus specifications & features of the cars. As the Hokkien saying goes: "want cheap, want fresh & want big". Best value is subjective and dependent on personal biases, etc. Different folks perceive value differently. Buy car is emotional purchase, so the heart may dictate over the head.

 

Agree with of your points, and have taken the same into account, to the degree possible. 

- COE for the compared list is the same

- OMV is accounted for comparing like for like on specs

- Australia is a proxy, but a reasonably good proxy for the comps set. You can use UK/US as well, and will reach similar conclusions, but there are more taxation/local content distortions.

 

Agree also that heart rules over head for many. The very decision to buy a car in Singapore, after all, is proof of heart over head. 

 

But for those cheapos like me, who are trying to figure out what's the best value alternative, this may be a useful guide. 



#5

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:21 PM

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I think it is very difficult to compare without setting some perimeters. For example price range, 5 or 7 seater, maintenance and FC.


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#6

Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:25 PM

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I think it is very difficult to compare without setting some perimeters. For example price range, 5 or 7 seater, maintenance and FC.

Yes agree.

Parameters used are:-
- Compact SUVs from leading players
- Mid to high spec
- A$35 to $42k

#7

Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:27 PM

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Eh, didn't know CRV cheaper than Forester XT in australia  ... why KM sell so expensive here?  [hur]


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#8

Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

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demand bro ...
subaru no demand la ...
honda ... vtec kick in yo ... buyer swear by toyota > honda > nissan
what's wrong to collect more? muahahaha

Eh, didn't know CRV cheaper than Forester XT in australia ... why KM sell so expensive here? [hur]


Edited by Wt_know, 13 August 2017 - 04:55 PM.


#9

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:07 PM

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demand bro ...
subaru no demand la ...
honda ... vtec kick in yo ... buyer swear by toyota > honda > nissan
what's wrong to collect more? muahahaha
 

 

No leh... Forester thread very active, shows strong demand  [;)]

 

New CR-V impressive, but pricing and KM SE attitude a bit of a turn-off...macham take it or leave it...

 

After i see overseas pricing, tempted to leave it  [wave]


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#10

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:18 PM

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firstly, MCF does not represent the market
secondly, even it is ... we can talk all we want ... when comes to sign on the dotted line with our hard earned money ...
people will buy toyota > honda > nissan / mazda ... where is subaru?

Edited by Wt_know, 13 August 2017 - 05:18 PM.


#11

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:32 PM

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Eh, didn't know CRV cheaper than Forester XT in australia ... why KM sell so expensive here? [hur]

Forester xt is lowest price in Singapore. In almost every other country it's priced much closer to its peers.

#12

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:35 PM

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i believe subaru forester only strategy is "pricing"
there is no other way to "attract" buyer
soccer mum and dad looking for suv dont matter the "power"
even i like power i will not buy forester xt because of CVT
no matter what people say ... i am not buying to CVT .... at least not for now where i have other choice
if i accept CVT i will get Vezel ... no horse run [thumbsup]

Forester xt is lowest price in Singapore. In almost every other country it's priced much closer to its peers.


Edited by Wt_know, 13 August 2017 - 05:40 PM.


#13

Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:40 PM

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i believe subaru forester only strategy is "pricing"
there is no other way to "attract" buyer
soccer mum and dad looking for suv dont matter the "power"
even i like power i will not buy forester xt because of CVT
no matter what people say ... i am not buying to CVT .... at least not for now where i have other choice

Although I didn't buy in the end. I think it's the cheapest brand new 240bhp car here even with 5k CEVs penalty. Many like me were tempted. Yeah CVT dulls the drive somewhat but at least it should be more reliable than a DSG.

#14

Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:07 PM

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Although I didn't buy in the end. I think it's the cheapest brand new 240bhp car here even with 5k CEVs penalty. Many like me were tempted. Yeah CVT dulls the drive somewhat but at least it should be more reliable than a DSG.

 

Yep, agree. Inclusion of Subaru's Eyesight system would have made it perfect. 



#15

Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:37 PM

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Eh, didn't know CRV cheaper than Forester XT in australia ... why KM sell so expensive here? [hur]

If you watch reviews from other countries such as oz, us and gb. You will know that forester is not exactly cheap there compare to other makes.
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#16

Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:12 PM

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spore car price cannot compare to any country ... no way.
any car sold in the market increased by 300% in spore and yet the car is scrapped in 10 years
unique market
unique price
unique buying criteria
unique ownself shiok ownself
no comparison whatsoever

 

 

Want to compare cost, best to Singapore cost...

 

Attached is the latest car price/cost compiled by LTA in the month Jun 2017...  You can compare all the OMV/ARF etc... from there you can calculate the depreciation cost per year....

Attached Files


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#17

Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:37 PM

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Want to compare cost, best to Singapore cost...

 

Attached is the latest car price/cost compiled by LTA in the month Jun 2017...  You can compare all the OMV/ARF etc... from there you can calculate the depreciation cost per year....

 

Yes, I think its important, but evaluating prices in Singapore does not tell you where the potential arbitrages are. 

 

For instance, if you were in Malaysia and did comprehensive research on Malaysian prices, you would find that the BMW X5 xDrive40e is priced at MYR388k, and the Vellfire 2.5L is priced at MYR355k. That is your reality, and you make the decision based on that reality. 

 

But if you took the trouble to check the prices globally, or even just in SIngapore, you find that the same Vellfire is priced at SGD170k vs SGD400k+ for an equivalent X5. So if you had MYR400k to spend and wanted the best value buy, you only have access to that information to execute an arbitrage buy if you did global price benchmarking. 

 

Similarly, with no benchmarking, the Singapore pricing reality is that the CRV is priced at a SGD20-30k premium to the Forester XT. But with global benchmarking, its clear that the XT is priced in line with or more than the CRV in most markets. So again, if you are looking for a value buy, it would make more sense to buy a XT than a CRV. 

 

Again, many don't care, and say its heart over head. But for me, best value is perhaps more important than best, on balance. 


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#18

Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:30 AM

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if forester can take CX-5 shell and the 6sp auto transmission

that would be perfect for me ... no brainer for me to choose

 

if you think best value is FXT ...  you sure buy right

if you are not ... means ... something you don't like about FXT? [sly]

 

Yes, I think its important, but evaluating prices in Singapore does not tell you where the potential arbitrages are. 

 

For instance, if you were in Malaysia and did comprehensive research on Malaysian prices, you would find that the BMW X5 xDrive40e is priced at MYR388k, and the Vellfire 2.5L is priced at MYR355k. That is your reality, and you make the decision based on that reality. 

 

But if you took the trouble to check the prices globally, or even just in SIngapore, you find that the same Vellfire is priced at SGD170k vs SGD400k+ for an equivalent X5. So if you had MYR400k to spend and wanted the best value buy, you only have access to that information to execute an arbitrage buy if you did global price benchmarking. 

 

Similarly, with no benchmarking, the Singapore pricing reality is that the CRV is priced at a SGD20-30k premium to the Forester XT. But with global benchmarking, its clear that the XT is priced in line with or more than the CRV in most markets. So again, if you are looking for a value buy, it would make more sense to buy a XT than a CRV. 

 

Again, many don't care, and say its heart over head. But for me, best value is perhaps more important than best, on balance. 

 


Edited by Wt_know, 14 August 2017 - 11:31 AM.


#19

Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:33 PM

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Toyota CHR 1.8 Hybrid G Led, for looks, performance, FC, great ride.

FC, price, safety features, reliability, value for money, name it, got it...except no sunroof. But black top, this car pulls it off very well.

#20

Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:11 AM

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Why compare with Australia? Totally different market. Uniquely Singapore issues with regards to new car purchases are - COE, OMV, CEVS, taxes, etc.

When we talk of value in Singapore, I consider the annual depreciation $ versus specifications & features of the cars. There is also the brand value to factor in too. How much $ to attach to MB or BMW vs Hyundai or Honda etc is very subjective. But badge goes a long way to perceived value of cars. As the Hokkien saying goes: "want cheap, want fresh & want big". Best value is subjective and dependent on personal biases too. Different folks perceive value differently. Buy car is emotional purchase, so the heart most times will rule over the head.

My thought is Since we are unique, then we should remove those unique factors from the equation (aka make them constant).

So instead of basing the comparision base on absolute value, why not change it to relative?

Example in many other countries, forester is equivalent to it's peer (CRV) or should i say more ex than many. If i remember correctly, it might be similar or slighty cheaper than the lexus RX by few k.

So in term of value, i will rank it at higher ranking than others as it is so much cheaper than it's peers here


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