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80 replies to this topic | 301 praises

#1

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

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http://www.straitsti...yment-practices

 

Looks like the practice of hiring non local is rampant.

 

I get a sense that we were really suppress and was ousted out of a role in an organisation due to preferential behavior.

 

I wonder where was that meritrocacy and the idea that if you study, work hard, and do good, you have a bright future.

 

Now it seems to be depends who you know and who is the hiring manager ?

 

Should Name and Shame them

 

********************

About 50 companies that were unfair to Singaporeans when hiring workers have been taken to task, Manpower Minister Lim Swee Say said yesterday.

More than 500 Employment Pass applications from these employers have been rejected by the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) or withdrawn by the companies, he said.

These firms are among the 250 on the Fair Consideration Framework watch list, which tracks firms not doing enough to hire and groom Singaporeans. The framework was introduced in 2014 to get companies to look for suitable Singaporeans before hiring foreign professionals.

At the end of last month, there were 250 companies - in industries ranging from information and communications technology to professional services - on the watch list, up from 100 at the start.

 
 

These companies get guidance over six months from the Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices to improve their employment practices.

 

 


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#2

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:29 AM

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split this thread for more discussion on the topic itself.


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骑白马的不一定是王子,可能是唐僧;带翅膀的也不一定是天使,有时候是鸟人。

#3

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:47 AM

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http://www.straitsti...yment-practices

 

Looks like the practice of hiring non local is rampant.

 

I get a sense that we were really suppress and was ousted out of a role in an organisation due to preferential behavior.

 

I wonder where was that meritrocacy and the idea that if you study, work hard, and do good, you have a bright future.

 

Now it seems to be depends who you know and who is the hiring manager ?

 

Should Name and Shame them

 

********************

About 50 companies that were unfair to Singaporeans when hiring workers have been taken to task, Manpower Minister Lim Swee Say said yesterday.

More than 500 Employment Pass applications from these employers have been rejected by the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) or withdrawn by the companies, he said.

These firms are among the 250 on the Fair Consideration Framework watch list, which tracks firms not doing enough to hire and groom Singaporeans. The framework was introduced in 2014 to get companies to look for suitable Singaporeans before hiring foreign professionals.

At the end of last month, there were 250 companies - in industries ranging from information and communications technology to professional services - on the watch list, up from 100 at the start.

 
 

These companies get guidance over six months from the Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices to improve their employment practices.

 
 

 

 

Why they do not show the name list of these company ?

Also, did the Manpower ministry increase the penalty since the number of companies on the watch list have more then double ?  


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#4

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:49 AM

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hmmm...PE coming?


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RESPECT is only for the DEAD!

#5

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:55 AM

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How many of these companies are SMEs?

And why are they flouting the rules? Does MOM look into why? Or that tok kok king knows why?

So why are these companies so desperate to hire foreign workers?

Answer: Because there are no cheaper alternatives. Hiring S'poreans are expensive and employers have to contribute their cpf...more expensive.

Why don't they publish the truth too? Why make these companies look so guilty?


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The chosen one will bring balance to the Force...I mean Singapore. Even star wars do not reserve "the chosen one" to a sith lord or a jedi or a wookie.

#6

Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:56 AM

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hmmm...PE coming?

 

More like performance review time?  [laugh]



#7

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:01 AM

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hmmm...PE coming?

 

This bodes well then.

 

At least it means we have a PE haha.


That is all.

#8

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:03 AM

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This bodes well then.

 

At least it means we have a PE haha.

 

hmmmm...all i can say is

 

I like your positivity haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa [thumbsup]  :D  :D



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#9

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:08 AM

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I got fresh grads with zero work experience asking for 4k+ per month starting pay. Small company we want to hire also dunno how to hire, then valid foreigners kenna restricted with quota. End up cannot hire anyone. Suck balls. 

 

It's not an isolated thing too, my friends also tell me similar things. Young local kids nowadays no big $tarting $alary no tok, without even considering what they can bring to the organization. Their whole life they've been told they are special by their parents. so now they rather just live off parents' $$$ waiting for their "big break".  Alot don't bother working at all. Got $$$ open cafe/blogshop/etc. 

 

And those that can make it? Of cos go to the big tech companies, i won't blame them. Small SMEs in SG ho cham.


Edited by Mockngbrd, 05 September 2017 - 10:12 AM.

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#10

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:20 AM

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I got fresh grads with zero work experience asking for 4k+ per month starting pay. Small company we want to hire also dunno how to hire, then valid foreigners kenna restricted with quota. End up cannot hire anyone. Suck balls. 

 

It's not an isolated thing too, my friends also tell me similar things. Young local kids nowadays no big $tarting $alary no tok, without even considering what they can bring to the organization. Their whole life they've been told they are special by their parents. so now they rather just live off parents' $$$ waiting for their "big break".  Alot don't bother working at all. Got $$$ open cafe/blogshop/etc. 

 

And those that can make it? Of cos go to the big tech companies, i won't blame them. Small SMEs in SG ho cham.

 

Just curious. How much do you think an average fresh grad from (a) local uni (b) SIM/kaplan/etc is worth? Let's say average is about 50th percentile in terms of competency. I'm not sure if thats a second lower or around there.

 

Obviously they would have to create more value for your company than you pay to them.


Edited by Kusje, 05 September 2017 - 10:21 AM.

That is all.

#11

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:28 AM

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How many of these companies are SMEs?

And why are they flouting the rules? Does MOM look into why? Or that tok kok king knows why?

So why are these companies so desperate to hire foreign workers?

Answer: Because there are no cheaper alternatives. Hiring S'poreans are expensive and employers have to contribute their cpf...more expensive.

Why don't they publish the truth too? Why make these companies look so guilty?

I think many companies answer would be no locals want to work in the job they are hiring. As it seems like when companies desperately hire foreign workers, they always say they could not hire any locals cause they dont want to do the job. Then second most reason being used is locals are asking high pay which they could not afford to pay. So in the end, who fault le? Lol.


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#12

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:43 AM

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Just curious. How much do you think an average fresh grad from (a) local uni (b) SIM/kaplan/etc is worth? Let's say average is about 50th percentile in terms of competency. I'm not sure if thats a second lower or around there.

Obviously they would have to create more value for your company than you pay to them.

Might be out of point but bear with me.

Newly passed out registered nurses with a degree commands a basic pay of $2500-3000. Of cos this excludes shift allowances and bonuses. Bonuses should not be considered cos they vary greatly from private sector to public sector so I focus on the basic salary.

I have been a nurse for about 17 years and my basic is more than $5k less than $5.5k and I have both a degree and advanced diploma in my field.

So when I hear stories of basic degree graduates asking for $4k starting pay I just wonder if their expectations are too high. I know that the field is different but perhaps because still the expectations are so different.

I think it is because nursing students tend to start from bottom up meaning even with a degree, a fresh graduate will still have to start from the ground up (from staff nurse to senior staff nurse) and hence we are more accepting of lower initial pay. But of cos some run to other countries once they get the experience so that they get higher pay but that's another story.

For degree holders in other fields perhaps it's because after graduation the post applied for is not a ground post but a management level post or there is assumption of management responsibility hence the expectation of higher pay.

So unless the mindset of new graduates change (start from bottom instead of from somewhere in the middle) there will always be this mismatch between salary expectations so of graduates and what SME employers will give.

And my final statement. Fresh graduate salary of $4k? I only hit that basic after over 10 years as a nurse.

What about doctors? I HEARD when they pass out their salaries are also very low. It's only because they have allowances that the pay seems higher but the hours are terrible. The real money is when they become senior MO or registrar and above when their loans are paid up and their salary is much higher (but it also means they have years of experience already and not a fresh graduate). Same as nurse they start out from bottom as well. But their pay rise is faster than the nurse but that's another topic.

Two cents.

Edited by Philipkee, 05 September 2017 - 10:48 AM.

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#13

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:46 AM

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I got fresh grads with zero work experience asking for 4k+ per month starting pay. Small company we want to hire also dunno how to hire, then valid foreigners kenna restricted with quota. End up cannot hire anyone. Suck balls. 

 

It's not an isolated thing too, my friends also tell me similar things. Young local kids nowadays no big $tarting $alary no tok, without even considering what they can bring to the organization. Their whole life they've been told they are special by their parents. so now they rather just live off parents' $$$ waiting for their "big break".  Alot don't bother working at all. Got $$$ open cafe/blogshop/etc. 

 

And those that can make it? Of cos go to the big tech companies, i won't blame them. Small SMEs in SG ho cham.

 

In the grand scale of things... you see fresh grads asking for 4k starting as exorbitant.

I actually see it in terms of value adding to the company.
(ie... its does not make sense if the senior with 2yrs experience makes 8k for eg... 4k in this point would be very fair) 

 

And i am of the opinion that experience is an over-rated premium. 

 

Loyalty is but a facade. Money talks. 


Respect is earned.. does not come with your god damn title..

#14

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:49 AM

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Maybe era different lo, last time fresh graduate pay maybe starts at $2500, but now even it starts off as $3500 also consider not high liao. So cannot be compared last time and now. Same theory like people in their early 40s could earn around $4k +, but people in their 30s now already earning $3500 or even close to $4k due to different era born.


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#15

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:49 AM

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tiagong drive uber/grab no need experience can earn easily 6k....that's why fresh grads no need to work in 4k jobs?

 

:D



#16

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:50 AM

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bottomline shd be

 

no $100k a yr no tok.....

 

 

and then this become haolian thread



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#17

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:51 AM

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How many of these companies are SMEs?

And why are they flouting the rules? Does MOM look into why? Or that tok kok king knows why?

So why are these companies so desperate to hire foreign workers?

Answer: Because there are no cheaper alternatives. Hiring S'poreans are expensive and employers have to contribute their cpf...more expensive.

Why don't they publish the truth too? Why make these companies look so guilty?

 

sorry hor... now foreign workers also not cheap.....


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#18

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:52 AM

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In the grand scale of things... you see fresh grads asking for 4k starting as exorbitant.

I actually see it in terms of value adding to the company.
(ie... its does not make sense if the senior with 2yrs experience makes 8k for eg... 4k in this point would be very fair) 

 

And i am of the opinion that experience is an over-rated premium. 

 

Loyalty is but a facade. Money talks. 

 

I'm your opposite, i am of the opinion that experience is a justifiable premium..

 

But i do agree loyalty dun count much nowadays.


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#19

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:54 AM

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In the grand scale of things... you see fresh grads asking for 4k starting as exorbitant.

I actually see it in terms of value adding to the company.
(ie... its does not make sense if the senior with 2yrs experience makes 8k for eg... 4k in this point would be very fair) 

 

And i am of the opinion that experience is an over-rated premium. 

 

Loyalty is but a facade. Money talks. 

 

wah 2 year exp can get 8k?

 

which company or industry pays so well?

 

then for 40 year old chap with 20 years exp then easily 50k per month .....the mythical mcf middle income exposed!

 

 

:D



#20

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:54 AM

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In the grand scale of things... you see fresh grads asking for 4k starting as exorbitant.

I actually see it in terms of value adding to the company.
(ie... its does not make sense if the senior with 2yrs experience makes 8k for eg... 4k in this point would be very fair) 

 

And i am of the opinion that experience is an over-rated premium. 

 

Loyalty is but a facade. Money talks. 

 

 

note to self

 

dun work for SuPerBoRed...he like singtel..no value loyalty [furious]  [furious]

 

[laugh]  [laugh]



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