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29 replies to this topic | 24 praises

#1

Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:38 PM

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http://www.straitsti...n-facade-checks

It is rather amazing that we have introduced so many new products and designs without giving thought to maintenance. now suddenly they expect the lowly maintenance guys to be experts and be able to view defects using binoculars on the facade!

Surely these maintenance guys won't know if the product will be flammable or the internal clippers have corroded. I would have hold QP responsible for the design and approving authority to ensure adequate maintenance processes are in placed before approving them. many renown designs were never given thought on maintenance. now it is others to pick up these sh#t.
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#2

Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:48 PM

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This comes too late lah.

 

I used to work in Centennial Tower from 2004 till 2013.

 

During that time, marble slab on the facade of the building drops twice.

 

Lucky, no dead body.



#3

Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

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All these are just facades...
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Together We stand Alone

#4

Posted 29 November 2017 - 04:58 PM

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What spoil patch what.. from lift to mrt to facade... nothing went wrong they act blur...


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Back to the same old days...


#5

Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:37 PM

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agree on the earlier designers not so focused on maintenance. i find that designers with some site project management experience will be able to have better designs with consideration to buildability and safe maintenance. 

 

recently BCA has been emphasizing on DfS (Design for Safety)... 


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#6

Posted 29 November 2017 - 07:35 PM

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This comes too late lah.

 

I used to work in Centennial Tower from 2004 till 2013.

 

During that time, marble slab on the facade of the building drops twice.

 

Lucky, no dead body.

Oh, you worked there before.

 

They have closed off the whole outdoor area since then, re-facade the building with metal sheets and recently just reopened the outdoor area.


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#7

Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:30 PM

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Using that as an example. So who design the detailing of the installation and why would the slab falls? Is it workmanship, design, material or nobody fault? 

 

So how many more buildings in the same situation and are the authorities looking into them? Surely we need to know our exposure and how to mitigate them or we chose to wait and see?


Donkey years ago, the mosaic pieces fells off buildings and they started to replace them. So this time we wait?

 

Next maybe glass facade which is almost everywhere.  [bigcry]  



#8

Posted 30 November 2017 - 03:13 PM

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Using that as an example. So who design the detailing of the installation and why would the slab falls? Is it workmanship, design, material or nobody fault? 

 

So how many more buildings in the same situation and are the authorities looking into them? Surely we need to know our exposure and how to mitigate them or we chose to wait and see?


Donkey years ago, the mosaic pieces fells off buildings and they started to replace them. So this time we wait?

 

Next maybe glass facade which is almost everywhere.  [bigcry]  

 

usually for general design and main details, done by developer's designer (can be in-house or employ design consultant). construction details is usually by contractor or sub-con and supposed to be checked and approved by developer's project management team. 

 

the slabs may fall due to any of the reasons you mentioned. need to investigate further for each case. 

 

either authority (BCA) or owner of building has to take the initiative to conduct the design/workmanship checks. usually MCST employed by owner of building takes care of building maintenance but if it is latent design problem or poor workmanship then hard to detect until something happens. 


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#9

Posted 30 November 2017 - 03:26 PM

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usually for general design and main details, done by developer's designer (can be in-house or employ design consultant). construction details is usually by contractor or sub-con and supposed to be checked and approved by developer's project management team. 

 

the slabs may fall due to any of the reasons you mentioned. need to investigate further for each case. 

 

either authority (BCA) or owner of building has to take the initiative to conduct the design/workmanship checks. usually MCST employed by owner of building takes care of building maintenance but if it is latent design problem or poor workmanship then hard to detect until something happens. 

 

I no engineer.  But i could guess why it fails.

 

These marble slabs was screwed onto iron rod (which is the base). 

 

Over time, these iron rod oxide and bend towards marble slabs.  I saw some of this bend iron road on the building.

 

It will bend to the extent that will unscrew or unlock the marble slabs.



#10

Posted 30 November 2017 - 05:05 PM

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I no engineer.  But i could guess why it fails.

 

These marble slabs was screwed onto iron rod (which is the base). 

 

Over time, these iron rod oxide and bend towards marble slabs.  I saw some of this bend iron road on the building.

 

It will bend to the extent that will unscrew or unlock the marble slabs.

 

in this case, the issue is in both design and maintenance. bad design to use iron rod which will oxidise over time, and maintenance team did not spot this issue before the marble slabs gave way... 


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#11

Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:29 PM

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In a way, this is good but create another layer of red tape.

Over the years, the construction industry is being pushed by authorities to own self check own self then send final report to authorities.

The process is troubling, we can expect problems to crop up, hopefully will not be as bad as our trains.

Edited by Ash2017, 30 November 2017 - 09:30 PM.

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#12

Posted 01 December 2017 - 01:56 AM

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In a way, this is good but create another layer of red tape.

Over the years, the construction industry is being pushed by authorities to own self check own self then send final report to authorities.

The process is troubling, we can expect problems to crop up, hopefully will not be as bad as our trains.


there are simply too many projects ongoing for the authority to be able to look into each and every one with the same high detail. nonetheless there are Design Codes and Codes of Practice which we need to adhere to when doing design works, coupled with QP endorsement, AC certification if necessary, and submission to technical agencies for their approvals.

there is already a lot of red tape in place currently, and all in the sake of safe and proper design.

imo there are more problems with proper site supervision and management of site works rather than latent design flaws which would have been cleared by authorities already.

Edited by kdash, 01 December 2017 - 01:57 AM.

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#13

Posted 01 December 2017 - 06:33 AM

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Could be also due to the recent Grenfell tower fire in London 'cos of the cladding issue 

 

Technology has moved too fast and not time tested, last 15 years or so back was the rivet change thing for windows and was like a mad rush to change to SS rivets  


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#14

Posted 01 December 2017 - 07:06 AM

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there are simply too many projects ongoing for the authority to be able to look into each and every one with the same high detail. nonetheless there are Design Codes and Codes of Practice which we need to adhere to when doing design works, coupled with QP endorsement, AC certification if necessary, and submission to technical agencies for their approvals.

there is already a lot of red tape in place currently, and all in the sake of safe and proper design.

imo there are more problems with proper site supervision and management of site works rather than latent design flaws which would have been cleared by authorities already.

 

This is why we need to be more stringent when it comes to safety. Designer design concept and let the supplier of the cladding do shop drawing for approval. That is the key, on what ground the approval is made? Does the responsibility goes back to the person designing and submitting the shop drawings or the approving authority? How to ensure installation are according to drawings is another issue. What happen along the way the QP decides to switch material, does he need to go back to approving authority or as QP he decides? Can a single individual QP decides on such major matter?

 

The mention of maintenance team unable to spot the defects need to be addressed. i have not come across an in-house 'maintenance team' that knows how to spot such defects. Even the expert needs to go up there on a BMU to check. I don't want to mention names but such checks were carried out by experts over a year for a particular building and subsequent incidents still occur. inherent defects may not be visible from outside. Not all marble/granite slabs sit in a metal tray, there are design that utilize pins method to hold these slabs together. Each piece of the marble/granite slab exceed 20 kg or more. Beside the mosaic falling off buildings, metal cladding falling off in the late 70 due to corrosion. 

 

The key to this is. We want to be innovative but we should not compromise safety. Any new concepts must be evaluated thoroughly by a panel before approving. Yes, you may call that 'red tape' but safety cannot be compromised. Too much glass and light weight panels are being used in today construction. That is my view.
 



#15

Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:17 AM

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This is why we need to be more stringent when it comes to safety. Designer design concept and let the supplier of the cladding do shop drawing for approval. That is the key, on what ground the approval is made? Does the responsibility goes back to the person designing and submitting the shop drawings or the approving authority? How to ensure installation are according to drawings is another issue. What happen along the way the QP decides to switch material, does he need to go back to approving authority or as QP he decides? Can a single individual QP decides on such major matter?

The mention of maintenance team unable to spot the defects need to be addressed. i have not come across an in-house 'maintenance team' that knows how to spot such defects. Even the expert needs to go up there on a BMU to check. I don't want to mention names but such checks were carried out by experts over a year for a particular building and subsequent incidents still occur. inherent defects may not be visible from outside. Not all marble/granite slabs sit in a metal tray, there are design that utilize pins method to hold these slabs together. Each piece of the marble/granite slab exceed 20 kg or more. Beside the mosaic falling off buildings, metal cladding falling off in the late 70 due to corrosion.

The key to this is. We want to be innovative but we should not compromise safety. Any new concepts must be evaluated thoroughly by a panel before approving. Yes, you may call that 'red tape' but safety cannot be compromised. Too much glass and light weight panels are being used in today construction. That is my view.

currently shop drawing approvals is by the QP(D) and monitoring on site by QP(S). there is no requirement to report to authorities for cladding detail. if there is a switch of material, the onus will be on the QP(D) to evaluate and approve.

agree that oftentimes the maintenance team is unable to detect any defects or wear and tear on facade until it becomes serious, and many cases it is due to the latent design. if the design is such that the connection details are hidden from sight and not easily accessible by maintenance team, then cannot blame them for not being able to spot.

agree that safety should always come first, which is why garment is now pushing for DfS... but hard to change the mindset of the industry, especially when DfS may call for additional costs.

bro, you sound experienced in this industry. are you an engineer by training?
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#16

Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:36 AM

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Seekali realize all is 自己人 :XD:
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#17

Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

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I've seen a big piece of some kind of metal sheet "floating" down 30-40 storeys in the wind like a kite .. can't imagine what will happen if it hits a person downstairs. We were in a meeting room in the opposite building, and all of us stare at it in disbelief.


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#18

Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:57 AM

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currently shop drawing approvals is by the QP(D) and monitoring on site by QP(S). there is no requirement to report to authorities for cladding detail. if there is a switch of material, the onus will be on the QP(D) to evaluate and approve.

agree that oftentimes the maintenance team is unable to detect any defects or wear and tear on facade until it becomes serious, and many cases it is due to the latent design. if the design is such that the connection details are hidden from sight and not easily accessible by maintenance team, then cannot blame them for not being able to spot.

agree that safety should always come first, which is why garment is now pushing for DfS... but hard to change the mindset of the industry, especially when DfS may call for additional costs.

bro, you sound experienced in this industry. are you an engineer by training?

i happen to be a very kepo person lah.

I've seen a big piece of some kind of metal sheet "floating" down 30-40 storeys in the wind like a kite .. can't imagine what will happen if it hits a person downstairs. We were in a meeting room in the opposite building, and all of us stare at it in disbelief.

it can and have slice through a person.

#19

Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:07 AM

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Seekali realize all is èªå·±äºº :XD:

haha hard to say...

I've seen a big piece of some kind of metal sheet "floating" down 30-40 storeys in the wind like a kite .. can't imagine what will happen if it hits a person downstairs. We were in a meeting room in the opposite building, and all of us stare at it in disbelief.

thats a scary sight... worse than 高楼抛物

i happen to be a very kepo person lah.
it can and have slice through a person.

i see... 👍
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#20

Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:52 AM

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Yeah, jin scary. It was a rather busy business district.

 

haha hard to say...
thats a scary sight... worse than 高楼抛物
i see... 👍

 


Fortunately, there wasn't people walking below it at the point in time. Morning time, local peasants are still indoors drinking kopi or taking smoke break.

 

i happen to be a very kepo person lah.
it can and have slice through a person.

 


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