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Is BHP and Torque really impt , which should we look at ?


Charmaine12
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Diesel always makes u feel "fast and powerful" but somehow on paper stil lose to petrol specs.. but in sg high torque is good since u dont chiong 0-100 fast. The most 0-60kph etc

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based on my limited experience

high torque shiok for city driving

when hits nshw the low bhp lao kui

step accelerator cannot cheong

if any chance i will choose higher torque for driving in spore

but if the gearbox cannot make it also lao kui

as far as weight ... similar category car probably weight the same

to me torque > gearbox > bhp in priority

but in actual driving experience is the whole car

steering feel and suspension equally critical

Your Macan boh lao kwee, dont worry

Badge boh lao kwee

Torque boh lao kwee

Bhp also lao kwee

Price lagi boh lao kwee

 

Don t worry.

 

 

MUayhahahah

Most drivers (I would say 80 percent at least) never rev their engine beyond 2500 rpm or step on more than 50 percent throttle. When they buy a car they should just ignore any engine performance beyond half throttle, and 3000 rpm. In other words they should go diesel!

You forgot to add the word “cmi”

Most CMI drivers never rev.........more than 50% throttle...

 

They should go car less and not hog the roads, you mean

Edited by Throttle2
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Most drivers (I would say 80 percent at least) never rev their engine beyond 2500 rpm or step on more than 50 percent throttle. When they buy a car they should just ignore any engine performance beyond half throttle, and 3000 rpm. In other words they should go diesel!

Less than 2500rpm...How to drive like that?

Doesn't matter what car I drive, think minimum 3.5k rpm to move off.

 

Fuel economy also depend on length trips. These few days ran many errands and visits. FC just shot up to 15L/km.

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so is 120bhp and 200 torque sufficient for street drive and nshw?

Yes.

More important for NSHW are

 

Good

-Brakes

-Tyres

-Wipers

 

Most importantly

Good rest.

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It is a fallacy that torque is more important than hp.

 

At any given rpm, the torque and hp has a fixed linear relationship.

 

If you can have high hp at X rpm, it automatically means you have high torque at that same X rpm.

 

Just looking at hp curve you calculate torque curve or vice versa.

 

Getting back to torque vs hp.

 

You can have very high torque but near zero hp and your car wont move fast. (no engine is like that but I am just showing why HP is more impt than torque in theory)

 

If you have very high hp but near zero torque (for argument sake, some new engine type that gives you 1NM only but spins at over a million rpm), your car can still be _geared_ to accelerate damn fast because 1NM x million rpm = HIGH HP.

 

​BOTTOM line, HP is more important than torque because you can gear high hp to make whatever torque at the wheels you want. But with low HP, how you gear also no use.

I have to respectfully disagree on some points. But I am not particularly keen to jump into an discussion on whether hp or torque is better.

 

But i note horsepower is a derived figure, torque is what is actually measured. Everything goes back to torque. With no torque, there is no horsepower. While torque curve can be calculated from hp curve, it must be understood that the hp curve was derived from the torque curve in the first place. Never the other way round.

 

Gearing is important, it applies to high torque low rpm engines too, not just high rpm engines. But higher torque at any given rpm is always better, the problem is sustaining that high torque throughout the rev range.

 

Torque is determined by mechanical design, and the horsepower is then determined by how the torque is delivered within the rev range. Turbodiesels often have lower horsepower, because their redline is low. Small capacity turbo engine sometimes have low hp, because they have smaller responsive turbos that run out of efficiency when the rpm goes up leading to low torque at high rpms.

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Turbocharged

Torque tends to produce more of the feel of surging... I remember when I tested the DS5 diesel, that thing was dismal in the horsepower and century sprint specifications, but had a lot of torque (as is usual for a turbodiesel).

So when flooring... it felt like it was charging forward, but I could clearly see that I wasn't hitting 90 any time soon...  [sweatdrop]

 

 

 

And when someone rode with me in my turbopetrol for the first time, they spazzed out thinking I was powering up because it'd hit the peak torque even though I hadn't even climbed even a quarter-way through the tacho...

Edited by 7hm
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A 0.999L egoboast A4-size engine. [:p]

 

We haven't even mentioned those drivers who love travelling 30 on a 60 road, or 60 on the highway at lane 2. These drivers should save money and buy a 1L car.

 

Edited by Kangadrool
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I have to respectfully disagree on some points. But I am not particularly keen to jump into an discussion on whether hp or torque is better.

 

But i note horsepower is a derived figure, torque is what is actually measured. Everything goes back to torque. With no torque, there is no horsepower. While torque curve can be calculated from hp curve, it must be understood that the hp curve was derived from the torque curve in the first place. Never the other way round.

 

Gearing is important, it applies to high torque low rpm engines too, not just high rpm engines. But higher torque at any given rpm is always better, the problem is sustaining that high torque throughout the rev range.

 

Torque is determined by mechanical design, and the horsepower is then determined by how the torque is delivered within the rev range. Turbodiesels often have lower horsepower, because their redline is low. Small capacity turbo engine sometimes have low hp, because they have smaller responsive turbos that run out of efficiency when the rpm goes up leading to low torque at high rpms.

 

What are you disagreeing on though? I don't see your points rebutting any of mine?

 

My bottom line is that if you have only 2 headline numbers to choose from, higher hp can always be translated to high torque with gearing but not the other way around if the 3rd variable of rpm is stretched to logical extremes:

 

100hp and super low torque of 10NM

 

1000NM and super low hp of 10hp.

 

Seriously, as long as gearing is addressed, the first motor would outgun the second and that's my whole point.

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The dsg is a good responsive gearbox when it works. Too bad for being unreliable. Many manufacturers are switching back to normal torque converter boxes.

 

Are you sure wet clutch is unreliable?

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I have to respectfully disagree on some points. But I am not particularly keen to jump into an discussion on whether hp or torque is better.

 

But i note horsepower is a derived figure, torque is what is actually measured. Everything goes back to torque. With no torque, there is no horsepower. While torque curve can be calculated from hp curve, it must be understood that the hp curve was derived from the torque curve in the first place. Never the other way round.

 

Gearing is important, it applies to high torque low rpm engines too, not just high rpm engines. But higher torque at any given rpm is always better, the problem is sustaining that high torque throughout the rev range.

 

Torque is determined by mechanical design, and the horsepower is then determined by how the torque is delivered within the rev range. Turbodiesels often have lower horsepower, because their redline is low. Small capacity turbo engine sometimes have low hp, because they have smaller responsive turbos that run out of efficiency when the rpm goes up leading to low torque at high rpms.

Need to re-read physics text books....

 

HP = Torque X RPM (so called derived)

 

or Toque = HP / RPM (Also can be derived!!!)

 

Depends on what equipment you have on hand to measure.

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What are you disagreeing on though? I don't see your points rebutting any of mine?

 

My bottom line is that if you have only 2 headline numbers to choose from, higher hp can always be translated to high torque with gearing but not the other way around if the 3rd variable of rpm is stretched to logical extremes:

 

100hp and super low torque of 10NM

 

1000NM and super low hp of 10hp.

 

Seriously, as long as gearing is addressed, the first motor would outgun the second and that's my whole point.

spot on!

 

meaning a higher rev, high hp but with lower torque vehicle can be matched with suitable close ratio gearbox because gearing is a torque multiplier, enabling the car to accelerate quickly. (think vtecs, type R, bikes)

 

a low rev, low hp, even with super high torque vehicle, can let u lug a huge load around briskly, but won't get u any fast. (think lorry, trucks, diesels)

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What are you disagreeing on though? I don't see your points rebutting any of mine?

 

My bottom line is that if you have only 2 headline numbers to choose from, higher hp can always be translated to high torque with gearing but not the other way around if the 3rd variable of rpm is stretched to logical extremes:

 

100hp and super low torque of 10NM

 

1000NM and super low hp of 10hp.

 

Seriously, as long as gearing is addressed, the first motor would outgun the second and that's my whole point.

I am not trying to directly rebut your views (in case you are thinking so) but am just saying that how it has been positioned as torque vs horsepower , may mislead to think that they are fundamentally different properties. I know it was caveated that they have fixed linear relationships, but maybe the extreme examples are a little stretched.

 

Because actually, torque determines horsepower for any given angular rotation, so very high torque cannot possibly have negligible hp unless the angular displacement is constrained artificially low. And as a theoretical parallel to underdriven gearings for high rpm applications, there are also overdriven gearsets for high torque applications.

 

I like both hp and torque. End of the day, the choice shouldnt be about whether hp or torque is better, it is all linked to the torque anyway.

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Need to re-read physics text books....

 

HP = Torque X RPM (so called derived)

 

or Toque = HP / RPM (Also can be derived!!!)

 

Depends on what equipment you have on hand to measure.

Agree, theoretical back-derivation is always possible. Just that i believe torque is always what is measured first to determine horsepower. I may have misinterpreted his statement though, because i thought he was trying to say that a torque curve will come after a horsepower curve.

 

Anyway, it's true that its been a while since i last read physics textbooks. Haha.

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I am not trying to directly rebut your views (in case you are thinking so) but am just saying that how it has been positioned as torque vs horsepower , may mislead to think that they are fundamentally different properties. I know it was caveated that they have fixed linear relationships, but maybe the extreme examples are a little stretched.

 

Because actually, torque determines horsepower for any given angular rotation, so very high torque cannot possibly have negligible hp unless the angular displacement is constrained artificially low. And as a theoretical parallel to underdriven gearings for high rpm applications, there are also overdriven gearsets for high torque applications.

 

I like both hp and torque. End of the day, the choice shouldnt be about whether hp or torque is better, it is all linked to the torque anyway.

very well written
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