Anyone tried motorbike engine oil for car?

[Spade]

I heard people got do before... does it work? Genie what are your thoughts on this?

[Silver_blade]

I don't think you can...at least not for modern cars. Most motorcycle here are running on 2-stroke engine.

 

Anyway, why would anyone want to do that?

Edited January 27, 2006 by Silver_blade

[Spade]

referring to 4T oil

[Fleaz]

most bikes are already using 4 stroke engine

[Fleaz]

motorcycle oils could be too thick

[Thwwx]

Actually many motorcycle oils are repackaged car oils until around the API SG generation. Then they start to slowly diverge. Passenger car oils' development is driven by increasing demands for fuel efficiency and emissions, leading to thinner and thinner formulas and increasingly restricted levels of barrier lubricant ZDDP in later API grades in order to cater for catalytic converters. High levels of ZDDP in an engine that consumes significant amount of oil is said to gradually but prematurely kill off the catalyser element.

 

This reduced ZDDP has limited impact on passengers cars as engineers slowly design around the limitations. The output levels are not spectacular either. However race engines and motorcycle engines continue to demand high levels of barrier protection. Both produce high hp per cc using high rpm. Modern normally aspirated stock production motorcycle engines with >12.4 comp ratio , producing 200+bhp per liter at 15,000 rpm are common, it is as close to F1 engines as production engines get.

 

In addition, motorcycles are wet clutch shared sump, meaning the oil has to share the duty of lubricating the transmission. To do that, shear resistance is a must. They either come in thicker grades for shear buffer or are made of very high performance base oils. Walk into a popular motodiam and you'll see top end ester based grades from Motul, Maxima and Silkolene alongside thick 20W50 mineral oils for the ah pek bikes.

 

If you do some research, you can actually get some really good stuff at around the $20/L price level. Performance motorcycle oils tend to exceed regular passenger car motor oils (M1, Castrol eg) in shear resistance, EP protection and high temp handling. Look out for the ester based stuff. I have seen some ester based Maxima oil at Mustafa, the back labels states it is fine for all 4 stroke engines, even turbocharged. The only caveat is the high ZDDP, a plus for engine protection but deteriorates the catalyser over time if your engine is an oil burner.

 

Some of the oil geeks overseas are also gaining interests in well blended motorcycle oils to put in their cars:

 

http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f...95/m/4061023001

Edited July 25, 2006 by Thwwx

[Mercs]

Doubt can work...

[Elfenstar]

Have a look at what Scaglietti said. Thats why they shouldn't be swapped around.

[Legendary]

I heard people got do before... does it work? Genie what are your thoughts on this?

 

Why would u wanna do that? Might as well use cooking oil, cheaper...

[Relagsingh]

if talking about 4T, can use but not very suitable. some gear oil like those from mobil can be used for both bike and car's gearbox.

[Elfenstar]

thats coz gearbox and motor oils use different benchmarks for viscosity. A 90 weight g/box oil is abt the same as a 30 weight motor oil.

 

theoretically 4 stroke motorcycle engine oils, manual g/box oils and 2 stroke motorcycle g/box oils of the same weights can be used interchangeably. What you're mentioning is the gear oils for the latter 2. The problem with using 4 stoke motorcycle oils is that the extreme pressure additives corrode any brass components in the latter 2.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Thwwx]

Why will the EP additives in 4T do any harm to gearbox components when it is designed to be used to lubricate a motorcycle's shared sump gearbox?

[Elfenstar]

thats why i used the word theoretical. it should be fine if not better but unless someone more affay with specific qualities of 4 stroke motorcycle oil as well as gearbox requirements sames something, its better to err on the side of caution.

[Thwwx]

Well, now as a person who is "more affay with specific qualities of 4 stroke motorcycle oil as well as gearbox requirements", I am saying that the motorcycle 4T are suitable for cars. The only concern being the ash requirements of modern cars for the benefit of guaranteeing the catalyser's function for a period of time.

 

However, unless your car is bellowing smoke from burnt oil like a 2 stroker, you won't have an issue. Almost all 'performance oils' (we're talking about Redline, Motul) flout the API SM limits of Zn/Ph, which makes them as bad as the motocycle oils when it comes to 'compatibility' for modern cars.

[Elfenstar]

its not so much the zddp issue. its the lack of friction modifiers that make 4 stroke oils "lousier" than that of car engine oils (i.e. they are less slippery). If you want to use it in the gearbox then fine, its worth the risk unless you have brass synchros and non-synth oils then u're in corrosion trouble.

[Thwwx]

Friction modifiers, that's another mythical difference between car and bike oils. The EC rated oils are all 30wt and below while JASO MA min friction spec oils are 40wt and up. The EC rating is primarily determined by the viscosity, it common knowledge that the thinner oils, not some 'frictionally enhanced' 40wt that gives rise to better fuel efficiency. Ask why Toyota is going 20wt.

 

There are race oils made for bikes that are 0W30 and even 0W10 but they aren't JASO MA compliant because they're too slippery at that viscosity and needs modified clutch to work. Such differences has got nothing to do with the quality of the oil, but rather the intended application, just like your 50wt turbo oil won't be giving u impressive milage (will you call your Motul 300V 15W50 'lousier'?).

 

http://www.maximausa.com/products/4stroke/maxum4ultra0.asp

 

Really what corrosion are we talking about here? Bike oils are regular function engine oil made to protect a 4 stroke engine + fortified to deal with aggressive cam, high comp, high rpm which puts alot of stress on camlobes and EP gearbox duty as well. They're made tougher (high shear resistance) with better EP characteristics. You make it sound like gearoil. Bike 4T aren't GL-5 rated gearoils and don't have the compatibility issues like GL-4 versus GL-5.

 

Car oils were once formulated like bike oils (minus the shear resistance part) until the API started to get influenced by emission requirements post API SG.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Thwwx

[Elfenstar]

Well lets compare apples to apples. Using a 0W30 car oil with FM's vs a 0W30 (doesn't matter if its MA or MB) bike oil, which oil will have more frictional resistance? The reason i wrote it as "lousier" is because its not an inferior oil but if offer inferior properties as compared to an equivalent car engine oil. swap vehicles around and it likewise a car engine oil would be "lousier" than a bike oil. Even a MB rated m/cycle oil has less FM's than car oils with them.

 

Also have a re-read of what i said, i was talking abt car g/boxes for corrosion. EP additives do a wonderful job on white metals. Many car gearboxes unfortunately come with brass synchros which have substantially higher wear and corrosion rates due to these same additives.GL5 gear oils have even more EP additives which makes them substantially worse in these gearboxes. If a car g/box has no bronze, copper or brass parts and specifies a GL4 and below oil there should be no issues though.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Robin]

i think cannot lah.. will spoil the car engine. cause maybe the motorcycle oil not made to withstand the pressure and friction in a larger car engine