Chery A168, not too bad!

[Icearmour]

new and can't start a topic, so bringing up a dead thread :)..so have a question, does anyone have parts manual with part numbers for Chery A168, would like to get some parts from china taobao..

[Victor68]

It is actually very interesting to read comments by individual and their thoughts. However, somehow many people are not rationale when they made comparison.

 

 

What you pay is what you get. China is the 3rd country to send men out to space. You mean they can't built a proper car and don't have that technology?

 

Japanese cars cost more than Korean. Continue more than jap. Aren't the quality of each segment different? Toyota crown is rebrand here because of perception although they can produce same quality. Kiasu is also doing that now.

 

So it is all about how much you are willing to pay and is there a market for it. If answer is yes, you will have a singapore car to.orrow although proton failed.

[Alheych]

It is actually very interesting to read comments by individual and their thoughts. However, somehow many people are not rationale when they made comparison.

 

 

What you pay is what you get. China is the 3rd country to send men out to space. You mean they can't built a proper car and don't have that technology?

 

Japanese cars cost more than Korean. Continue more than jap. Aren't the quality of each segment different? Toyota crown is rebrand here because of perception although they can produce same quality. Kiasu is also doing that now.

 

So it is all about how much you are willing to pay and is there a market for it. If answer is yes, you will have a singapore car to.orrow although proton failed.

 

You will be surprised, but the cost of developing and building a rocket that sends people out to space may actually be lower than the cost of developing a new model and starting a production line for it... now we're just talking about economics.

 

Let's also remember that buying a car, in Singapore more than anywhere else, is not a purely economic decision as well. In Singapore, in fact, it's very very irrational. No car, not the cheapest QQ, is a bargain in terms of absolute price. The 100% ARF ensures this.

 

So... how a car makes you feel when you step out of it on a wet Monday morning becomes a very real consideration. In this aspect, rocket scientists don't work. It takes a Steve Jobs - who doesn't ask you what you want and build it; but build it and make you want it.

[Victor68]

You will be surprised, but the cost of developing and building a rocket that sends people out to space may actually be lower than the cost of developing a new model and starting a production line for it... now we're just talking about economics.

 

Let's also remember that buying a car, in Singapore more than anywhere else, is not a purely economic decision as well. In Singapore, in fact, it's very very irrational. No car, not the cheapest QQ, is a bargain in terms of absolute price. The 100% ARF ensures this.

 

So... how a car makes you feel when you step out of it on a wet Monday morning becomes a very real consideration. In this aspect, rocket scientists don't work. It takes a Steve Jobs - who doesn't ask you what you want and build it; but build it and make you want it.

My dear friend. With china market, are kidding they can't sell the car if it matches everything the European can produced? It is all branding and perceptions. What I am trying to say is, there is no lacking in technological knowhow but changing mindset is very difficult.

 

People are getting smarter today. Motorola and Nokia were once kings but the Korean brought them down. The world is changing and we need em race that change.

[Alheych]

What I am trying to say is, there is no lacking in technological knowhow but changing mindset is very difficult.

 

 

I totally agree, and that's my point too.

 

How did Samsung take over the world? They had an entire country as a testbed for their devices. Koreans are fiercely patriotic and would support their homegrown brands, be willing to give chance to the company to improve, and be enthusiastic in participating in experiments (eg scanning pictures as a form of shopping for groceries while waiting for the train).

 

Does China have that kind of testbed? Granted, they have an even bigger country. But if you give a PRC a choice between a Chery A160 and a Mercedes A160, which one would they desire? Koreans somehow managed to imbue the mentality of pride in taking part in a country's cause in their citizens, so they actually do desire the local products.

[Mercury1]

You mean they can't built a proper car and don't have that technology?

 

What kind of technology are you referring too?

 

 

It is actually very interesting to read comments by individual and their thoughts. However, somehow many people are not rationale when they made comparison.


What you pay is what you get. China is the 3rd country to send men out to space. You mean they can't built a proper car and don't have that technology?

Japanese cars cost more than Korean. Continue more than jap. Aren't the quality of each segment different? Toyota crown is rebrand here because of perception although they can produce same quality. Kiasu is also doing that now.

So it is all about how much you are willing to pay and is there a market for it. If answer is yes, you will have a singapore car to.orrow although proton failed.

 

[Victor68]

You mean they can't built a proper car and don't have that technology?

 

What kind of technology are you referring too?

What I am saying is. If you are willing to pay the same price as any other cars, surely china can build a better one. They have all the skills and technology, they just don't have that branding yet. This may not be possible say in singapore.

[Mercury1]

Actually I don't see it that way, all things being equal china manufacturers still lack the expertise to built a car similar to say a normal German sedan. For arguments sake 

 

The leading car manufacturers today are there cause they underwent a lot of R&D to get there, from a lab perspective this yielded new alloys that are stronger & lighter for engine block casting, engine efficiency using valve-tronics/VVTI/VTEC, evolutionary chassis design for strength and flexibility and a whole lot more. All this has to be tested which required numerous rounds around the nurburgring  fine tweaking & tuning to reach final product bearing in mind the previous experience permits the company's product development life cycle to be much shorter.

 

Anyway stripped down to its core car manufacturers components what makes a great car are the engine, chassis, suspension.  Gearbox and brakes are typically outsourced to specialized companies like ZF or Brembo. Despite that they need to be well engineered to ensure all parts work well together, the software component ensures the gearbox switches at optimal to the engine and the car's stability control ensures the braking systems are well controlled in adverse conditions.

 

Assuming the china manufacturers received an overwhelming demand to make a car like a 3 series at the same price, same comfort, same emission rate, fuel efficiency etc even they had the materials at hand they wouldn't know the alloy composites & mix or heat treatment to manufacture the engine block/crankshaft, software and fine tuning needed to ensure the cars stability and external components work well together and a host of other things. The only way to duplicate this would literally mean acquiring all the R&D from the original company and blueprints to something even close to the original. The alternative is to put forth their own R&D into this which would takes years of research and testing like what the previous company's have done.

 

China still buys certain Russian jet engines for their fighter jets, reason is China has never been able to successfully match what the Russian engines can offer despite throwing 10's of billions into research, similar to the same reason why duplicating an car engine is challenging. Alloy compositions.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/why-chinas-air-force-needs-the-su-35/

 

 

 

 

What I am saying is. If you are willing to pay the same price as any other cars, surely china can build a better one. They have all the skills and technology, they just don't have that branding yet. This may not be possible say in singapore.

 

[Sunny]

Like proton said their quality as gd as bmw?

[Mercury1]

Just to add, F1 is the premier ground for car manufacturers to push the limit of their engineers, in F1 rules constantly change and companies strive to achieve more power, less weight, less fuel and a lot of this technology developed thru 1000's of hours of simulations on computers and wind tunnels result in something which goes into our everyday cars.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7MOlYhLZDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Bb9KkQwKM

[Victor68]

If you have been to China and visit some of the best hotels, entertainment outlets and spas, etc. You would be surprise of their quality as they do command premium price to sustain and plenty of customers.

 

Of course they would not be able to produce equivalent quality immediately. If there are willing buyers, there will be sellers with the right products to match. Nothing special even with German's products. Quality has been dropping to compete with cheating even coming in.

 

Take for example even for Honda, the Mobillo and City are way apart from the higher end models. Why? price sensitive due to competition and not that they don't have technology or expertise.

[Mercury1]

I've been to China since the early 90's those days we traveled as a pillion rider on motorcycles for 100's of kms across dirt roads lol it was quite a memory. These days my uncle picks us up in his Audi and we travel across brand new highways spanning across the mountains, I also go often to the major cities and am also impressed by their progress. 

 

But okay lets say right this instance all the conti car owners in China suddenly wanted the same product from a china car maker at the same price they paid for a conti car, what is the product development time frame in your view will it take them to deliver it something equivalent to a fully loaded 5 series? 

 

As for the honda example, majority of the honda models are priced below 140 range. which models are you comparing them too?

 

 

If you have been to China and visit some of the best hotels, entertainment outlets and spas, etc. You would be surprise of their quality as they do command premium price to sustain and plenty of customers.

 

Of course they would not be able to produce equivalent quality immediately. If there are willing buyers, there will be sellers with the right products to match. Nothing special even with German's products. Quality has been dropping to compete with cheating even coming in.

 

Take for example even for Honda, the Mobillo and City are way apart from the higher end models. Why? price sensitive due to competition and not that they don't have technology or expertise.

 

[Mercury1]

Saw this article today was reminded of a post I made some time ago

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2171987/chinas-new-j-20-stealth-fighter-engine-no-show-zhuhai-air-show

 

Actually I don't see it that way, all things being equal china manufacturers still lack the expertise to built a car similar to say a normal German sedan. For arguments sake 

 

The leading car manufacturers today are there cause they underwent a lot of R&D to get there, from a lab perspective this yielded new alloys that are stronger & lighter for engine block casting, engine efficiency using valve-tronics/VVTI/VTEC, evolutionary chassis design for strength and flexibility and a whole lot more. All this has to be tested which required numerous rounds around the nurburgring  fine tweaking & tuning to reach final product bearing in mind the previous experience permits the company's product development life cycle to be much shorter.

 

Anyway stripped down to its core car manufacturers components what makes a great car are the engine, chassis, suspension.  Gearbox and brakes are typically outsourced to specialized companies like ZF or Brembo. Despite that they need to be well engineered to ensure all parts work well together, the software component ensures the gearbox switches at optimal to the engine and the car's stability control ensures the braking systems are well controlled in adverse conditions.

 

Assuming the china manufacturers received an overwhelming demand to make a car like a 3 series at the same price, same comfort, same emission rate, fuel efficiency etc even they had the materials at hand they wouldn't know the alloy composites & mix or heat treatment to manufacture the engine block/crankshaft, software and fine tuning needed to ensure the cars stability and external components work well together and a host of other things. The only way to duplicate this would literally mean acquiring all the R&D from the original company and blueprints to something even close to the original. The alternative is to put forth their own R&D into this which would takes years of research and testing like what the previous company's have done.

 

China still buys certain Russian jet engines for their fighter jets, reason is China has never been able to successfully match what the Russian engines can offer despite throwing 10's of billions into research, similar to the same reason why duplicating an car engine is challenging. Alloy compositions.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/why-chinas-air-force-needs-the-su-35/

 

[suryahalim657]

such a low price, dont expect so much

[HappyDriver24]

now its the time to buy...but wait... who is the AD selling it?

 

[Vinceng]

You can head to the Seat showroom to check if they have any Chery cars left for sale.