Yet Another Car Catches Fire...

[Jamesc]

My MIL head damage no one will notice any difference.

1 hour ago, mersaylee said:

I only know @Jamesc would not risk any of his loved ones in the car and won't hesitate to use his head-strong mil to smash the window (if not windowS) to get everyone out safe...head damage could be dealt with later...😁

 

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Beehive3783 said:

Ah yes, 12V socket no problem for sure.

Well, I also tap my car cam from fuse box because i only have 1x 12 V socket

My car only got 1 12v socket in front.

It is used to charge Cellink battery.

Cellink battery powered car cam.

[Heartlander]

If car makers want to do something about it, they could come together and establish a compact setup panel placed in a corner of the cabin that is fuse-protected and extended from the hidden fuse box. This panel will have spring-loaded terminals that will allow car owners to tap the power easily for any gadget in the car be it car cams, ioniser, fan, ICE, etc, safely reducing the risk of shoddy workmanship possibly triggering a fire later on.  It should be easy to do. If only some prominent figure willing to promote it.

[Tcx607]

1 hour ago, Mkl22 said:

unlikely it is the car camera. current draw is so low.

I guess you may like to refer to the ohm's law. The lower the voltage dc12v, the higher the current (assume the load remain the same)

i.e. if the load is 12 ohm, the current drawn = 1Amp. Compare to dc48v, the current drawn = 0.25 Amp

[Mkl22]

28 minutes ago, Tcx607 said:

I guess you may like to refer to the ohm's law. The lower the voltage dc12v, the higher the current (assume the load remain the same)

i.e. if the load is 12 ohm, the current drawn = 1Amp. Compare to dc48v, the current drawn = 0.25 Amp

So what is the current draw then, if you disagree. ?

[Beehive3783]

1 hour ago, Heartlander said:

If car makers want to do something about it, they could come together and establish a compact setup panel placed in a corner of the cabin that is fuse-protected and extended from the hidden fuse box. This panel will have spring-loaded terminals that will allow car owners to tap the power easily for any gadget in the car be it car cams, ioniser, fan, ICE, etc, safely reducing the risk of shoddy workmanship possibly triggering a fire later on.  It should be easy to do. If only some prominent figure willing to promote it.

Or they can just integrate the car cam into the car like what Tesla has done with their TeslaCam.

[Gizmore]

A few possible causes I can think of.

1. Fuse is not properly seated in socket. Vibration results in arcing around the fuse contact area that cause fire. 

2. Wrong current rated fuse use. I.e. Max current from fuse box is rated at 10A but a 20A fuse is used. 

2. Fuse wire tap are not connected properly. Most of the time, the wires are stripped and twisted together only and then covered with electrical tape. The wires are bundled together, cable tied and stuff around in the fuse box area. Over time, the electrical tape can unwrap by itself due to heat and that exposes the bare wire. With vibration, it could make contact with vehicle chassis which is a direct short. 

3. Thin electrical cables use to connect system which requires high current. Powerful amplifier ICE will require lots of power (high-current). If improper wire gauge is used, then the wire could overheat, melt and cause fire. 

4. Direct taping of 12V from car battery. No fuse utilize. 

[Heartlander]

14 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said:

Or they can just integrate the car cam into the car like what Tesla has done with their TeslaCam.

I am thinking of flexibility to install after market products safely, not just car cam. What Tesla did would kill the competition among car cam makers if all car makers do likewise.

[Beehive3783]

1 hour ago, Tcx607 said:

I guess you may like to refer to the ohm's law. The lower the voltage dc12v, the higher the current (assume the load remain the same)

i.e. if the load is 12 ohm, the current drawn = 1Amp. Compare to dc48v, the current drawn = 0.25 Amp

Would you like to go further into the cross sectional area of wire used, max current before the wire starts to burn and power generated from the current x voltage?

[Heartlander]

In fact another better idea is to get all car makers to pre-install the wiring for car cams at front and back with standard termination for power and video signals, with provision under the glove box for the DVR processing unit if need to. Then car owners will just need to connect the devices and viola.Quite easy to do since most car cams uses USB type C or micro USB connector for power and 3.5mm plugs for audio/video signals.

This would reduce the fire risk tremendously.

[Adrianli]

4 hours ago, Macrosszero said:

There's a workaround - use the 12v power outlet. Most car owners opt for a cleaner installation that taps the fuse box and car manufacturers don't like that.

The car manufacturer or AD cannot reasonably say that you are at fault for using the 12v socket as intended. Otherwise put there for show only?

They can turnaround and say that the equipment you use to plug-in is not up to standard. I remember reading here in MCF, someone's ciggy plug wire melted while he was charging the phone using a China brand ciggy plug. Lucky he smelt and saw it in time to unplug the melted device, otherwise it would have caused a fire.

AD can say the ciggy plug only purpose was to light a cigarette and nothing else. LPPL.

[Volvobrick]

3 hours ago, Mkl22 said:

unlikely it is the car camera. current draw is so low.

That's when it is operating normally. IF it malfunctions and has a short circuit, the current shoots up. That's what the fuse is for - to burn out and cut off the abnormal high current.  BUT if indeed some equipment is already shorted and the tech replaced the blown fuse with one with higher ampere rating, the shorted part will continue to burn instead of the fuse!

 

  

[Volvobrick]

11 minutes ago, Heartlander said:

In fact another better idea is to get all car makers to pre-install the wiring for car cams at front and back with standard termination for power and video signals, with provision under the glove box for the DVR processing unit if need to. Then car owners will just need to connect the devices and viola.Quite easy to do since most car cams uses USB type C or micro USB connector for power and 3.5mm plugs for audio/video signals.

This would reduce the fire risk tremendously.

Just record down what the reversing cam and the safety front cam (eg lane following cam) sees. Like Tesla.  Only need to add SD card reader.  Strange the car manufacturers are so backwards.

[Macrosszero]

45 minutes ago, Adrianli said:

They can turnaround and say that the equipment you use to plug-in is not up to standard. I remember reading here in MCF, someone's ciggy plug wire melted while he was charging the phone using a China brand ciggy plug. Lucky he smelt and saw it in time to unplug the melted device, otherwise it would have caused a fire.

AD can say the ciggy plug only purpose was to light a cigarette and nothing else. LPPL.

Nowadays they don't even provide a heating-coil plug for it, so the purpose is patently for powering in-cabin devices. You could probably dive into the owner's manual to find the specifications/limits for the 12v point and ensure whatever it is you're plugging in is within those limits if you wanted to argue the case it was a material failure.

[Unfazed]

On 3/8/2021 at 6:44 PM, Yewheng said:

If you read that article.. when he open fuse box then see fire.. all the while is smoke. So actually the fire he saw is not big, proberly small fire. However he no fire extinguisher and tried to flag down motorist but no one stopped. So my saying is not wrong. Up to you.. if one day if you just so happened that need it but don't have. Don't regret lor.. there are many known incident that people put out small fire in the car with portable fire extinguisher. So if you want to argue that..

 😀 thank you ah...your presence is strongly felt here.

[Macrosszero]

6 hours ago, Mkl22 said:

unlikely it is the car camera. current draw is so low.

But it could be a short from poorly connected and thinly insulated wiring.

[Yewheng]

2 hours ago, Unfazed said:

 😀 thank you ah...your presence is strongly felt here.

This is forum.. just for discussion.. good or bad, sometimes idea just suddenly pop up from someone comment. Who knows..

[Atrecord]

On 3/9/2021 at 11:06 AM, Beehive3783 said:

When it comes to legal claims, it's all very smelly and subjective. You will know if you have ever been involved in any motor insurance claims.

1. The car owner has to prove beyond doubt that the fuse changed by the PM mechanic directly caused the fire, which for this case I don't know if the cause of fire will be investigated by SCDF.

2. I believe it is documented very clearly that for BMWs sold by PM, aftermarket electrical or electronic installations are not allowed and will not be covered by warranty. I know this because I have two ex-colleagues who bought BMWs a few years ago and they were specifically informed about this clause concerning warranty coverage which is 3 years or 5 years (i cannot remember). In fact, their car cams are BMW branded and supplied/installed by PM (but just crappy ones from china la :D). These are covered by warranty.

2.1 It is unclear if the owner did install aftermarket Blackvue car cam, but it will definitely be a point of contention if not endorsed by PM prior to installation. If the Blackvue cam was supplied and installed by PM (not likely), then PM should have the records as such.

3. From PM's point of view, they will also look for any loophole to jump out of liability. Think of it this way (from their point of view). The owner mentioned that a fuse was changed by PM mechanic recently, but did he do any other work to the electrical system before or after that? Not mentioned and PM will never know. So for PM to deny any claim at this point in time is perfectly reasonable, from their point of view.

 

sigh... such is the reality.

i believe none of the ADs will install or endorse car cam with parking mode. They will at best throw in those cams that does not use up battery of the vehicle when engine is off.

Like this, will never have peace of mind to be able to install cams with parking mode for new cars already... 😥