Changing shock absorbers or suspension

[Ken4555]

Dear Suspension experts....

 

for an FF car.... should the suspension settings be the same for all fours? or front slightly harder?

 

pls advise... many thanks.....

[Paulthong]

I am driving a 6 yo Hyundai coupe with 70+K mileage. The ride seems very harsh. Can feel every slight bump very jarringly. Consulted my outside workshop mechanic as to whether I can change to 'bigger' springs for a more comfortable ride (me old man so don't really speed much...prefers comfort over performance).

 

He said not advisable due to stability issues as it is the normal characteristic of this model. But after the 'push' test he said the front right shock absorber is jammed. Recommends changing both front absorbers and quoted about $400+.

 

Questions are (hopefully some experts here can advise), 1, is it really not advisable to change to bigger springs for a more comfortable ride, 2, original or which brand s/absorber is best for my preference, and 3, expected reasonable cost for parts and labour for changing 2 front s/absorbers.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Hamburger]

I am driving a 6 yo Hyundai coupe with 70+K mileage. The ride seems very harsh. Can feel every slight bump very jarringly. Consulted my outside workshop mechanic as to whether I can change to 'bigger' springs for a more comfortable ride (me old man so don't really speed much...prefers comfort over performance).

 

He said not advisable due to stability issues as it is the normal characteristic of this model. But after the 'push' test he said the front right shock absorber is jammed. Recommends changing both front absorbers and quoted about $400+.

 

Questions are (hopefully some experts here can advise), 1, is it really not advisable to change to bigger springs for a more comfortable ride, 2, original or which brand s/absorber is best for my preference, and 3, expected reasonable cost for parts and labour for changing 2 front s/absorbers.

 

Thanks in advance!

no such thing as bigger spring but firmer one

[Weiiix]

anyone interested in getting shock absorbers pls pm me with your model...

 

will check the price with my supplier, price will be cheaper than local market...

 

thanks...

[Yc86]

Dear Suspension experts....

 

for an FF car.... should the suspension settings be the same for all fours? or front slightly harder?

 

pls advise... many thanks.....

 

Not an expert but it depends.. generally it is almost always stiffer because the front is heavier both statically (when the car is not moving, or in steady state cornering) and dynamically (weight transfer in braking loads up the front).

 

But by how much stiffer depends on literally a thousand variables.

[Ken4555]

Not an expert but it depends.. generally it is almost always stiffer because the front is heavier both statically (when the car is not moving, or in steady state cornering) and dynamically (weight transfer in braking loads up the front).

 

But by how much stiffer depends on literally a thousand variables.

 

do you know for stock OEM suspension for FF cars, is the front also stiffer?

 

cause when i got my 1set of coilovers for my FF car, the mech adjusted all mid settings for all fours... i drove for a week to 'set-in' the new suspension and realised the ride to be ok with all settings the same...

 

guess daily driving and maybe the occassional spirited drive does not require track settings... haha

[Yc86]

do you know for stock OEM suspension for FF cars, is the front also stiffer?

 

cause when i got my 1set of coilovers for my FF car, the mech adjusted all mid settings for all fours... i drove for a week to 'set-in' the new suspension and realised the ride to be ok with all settings the same...

 

guess daily driving and maybe the occassional spirited drive does not require track settings... haha

 

Yes, for FF cars, OEM suspension, the fronts are also generally stiffer than the rear (due to the front being heavier).

eg, did a quick search and the civic (eg or ek?) has a stock spring rate of 3.2-3.6kg/mm for the front and 2-2.2kg/mm for the rear.

 

But what your mechanic is setting is the damping rate, not the spring rate. spring rate is fixed by the diameter of wire, length of spring, material and number of coils, and cannot be changed unless you change the entire spring out.

 

With damping, the damping rate also follows the spring rate, and the front's are generally stiffer than the rear for FF. However with the damping adjustment on the coilovers, there are alot of questions also:

 

- The resolution of the adjustment, or how big of a difference one turn or click makes

- Whether the shock has a different set of damping rates for the front and rear of the car from factory.

- Whether these rates are matched or in the ballpark of the spring rates (as some dealers offer a choice of springs).

 

For all we know, the difference between each click might be barely noticable. Whether the driver can feel the difference is also another story, how much 'slack or slop' there is in the system, etc. If the car is very rigid and tight, it is easier for the driver to feel, compared to a more lazy car.

 

I think the best way would be to experiment with the dampers. Try turning all of them full soft, or full hard, and see if there is any noticeable difference first.

If the shocks are by default set according to the spring rates, then having all of them with the same settings is fine.

[Ichibawa]

do you know for stock OEM suspension for FF cars, is the front also stiffer?

 

cause when i got my 1set of coilovers for my FF car, the mech adjusted all mid settings for all fours... i drove for a week to 'set-in' the new suspension and realised the ride to be ok with all settings the same...

 

guess daily driving and maybe the occassional spirited drive does not require track settings... haha

 

I am no expert but just relaying what I know. Technically, the bigger the diameter of the piston rod & outer tube, the firmer is the ride. Generally, struts will have much bigger piston rods than telescopic type.

 

As for ride comfort, it all bears down to each individual as our butt dyno doesn't always tally. Like what bro YC86 said, play with all setting before finalizing on the one you like most.

[Ken4555]

thanks for your very very helpful post... i shall play around with my damping settings then... the front is easy to adjust, but the back is a hassle... also i wanna lower my ride an inch more, so maybe i 'harder' abit for the damping (more infront then the back) and lower at the same time all fours... when adjust until ok ok then go do proper camber adjustments and alignment...

 

thanks bro.. have a wonderful week ahead... happy New Year

[Ken4555]

I am no expert but just relaying what I know. Technically, the bigger the diameter of the piston rod & outer tube, the firmer is the ride. Generally, struts will have much bigger piston rods than telescopic type.

 

As for ride comfort, it all bears down to each individual as our butt dyno doesn't always tally. Like what bro YC86 said, play with all setting before finalizing on the one you like most.

 

i think nowadays these mono tube coilovers are very advanced... but for a coilover to have 30 damping settings, its good maybe for the trackie but for a daily ride novice like me give me more headache... more choice = more confused... sob sob...

 

but will try and error a few times and hope for the best...

 

 

[Yc86]

thanks for your very very helpful post... i shall play around with my damping settings then... the front is easy to adjust, but the back is a hassle... also i wanna lower my ride an inch more, so maybe i 'harder' abit for the damping (more infront then the back) and lower at the same time all fours... when adjust until ok ok then go do proper camber adjustments and alignment...

 

thanks bro.. have a wonderful week ahead... happy New Year

 

no probs bro, happy new year 2011

 

Harder is not always better and too stiff shocks actually reduce grip and you have a very harsh ride.

Then again, we don't know how hard is hard unless we have a numerical value.

 

have fun

[Yuan]

no probs bro, happy new year 2011

 

Harder is not always better and too stiff shocks actually reduce grip and you have a very harsh ride.

Then again, we don't know how hard is hard unless we have a numerical value.

 

have fun

 

And it seems to a lot of people that harder is better.

 

Not necessarily so. Hardness is a subjective issue among drivers.

[Moredhel]

And it seems to a lot of people that harder is better.

 

Not necessarily so. Hardness is a subjective issue among drivers.

 

Actually, I've no issues with being hard.

 

Nor maintaing that hardness over a period of time.

 

Makes it easier to accurately control the direction.

[Yc86]

Actually, I've no issues with being hard.

 

Nor maintaing that hardness over a period of time.

 

Makes it easier to accurately control the direction.

 

That sounded wrong without looking at previous posts.

[Hongliang]

Hi!

 

Has anybody changed their shock absorbers in JB before? Is it recommended to change there in terms of Value? Any recommendations for shops to change at?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Thedream]

Yes, for FF cars, OEM suspension, the fronts are also generally stiffer than the rear (due to the front being heavier).

eg, did a quick search and the civic (eg or ek?) has a stock spring rate of 3.2-3.6kg/mm for the front and 2-2.2kg/mm for the rear.

 

But what your mechanic is setting is the damping rate, not the spring rate. spring rate is fixed by the diameter of wire, length of spring, material and number of coils, and cannot be changed unless you change the entire spring out.

 

With damping, the damping rate also follows the spring rate, and the front's are generally stiffer than the rear for FF. However with the damping adjustment on the coilovers, there are alot of questions also:

 

- The resolution of the adjustment, or how big of a difference one turn or click makes

- Whether the shock has a different set of damping rates for the front and rear of the car from factory.

- Whether these rates are matched or in the ballpark of the spring rates (as some dealers offer a choice of springs).

 

For all we know, the difference between each click might be barely noticable. Whether the driver can feel the difference is also another story, how much 'slack or slop' there is in the system, etc. If the car is very rigid and tight, it is easier for the driver to feel, compared to a more lazy car.

 

I think the best way would be to experiment with the dampers. Try turning all of them full soft, or full hard, and see if there is any noticeable difference first.

If the shocks are by default set according to the spring rates, then having all of them with the same settings is fine.

 

I agree that the front suspension is usually set to a higher spring rate than the rear. But my understanding is that the front should still be more willing to compress than the rear, because the weight in front overcomes the higher spring rate.

 

The settings for coilovers are usually not the same for front and rear. i.e. setting the middle setting on front and rear coilovers do not mean the same damping for front and rear. Usually, the front coilover has a higher damping range than the rear. So setting both front and rear to the middle setting may not be wrong, as the front actually is set at a higher damping force.

 

some good advice by Yc86. To state the obvious, testing should not be done while cruising, but rather through corners, acceleration, deceleration, and even bumps...

[Hobbit]

Hi sorry for the Hijack,

My Car is slightly slanted to the driver side, i measured from floor to the car fender on the left side is 23' and on the right is 22' , visually i can even see it is tilted to the driver side, my question is could it be the absorber that is giving way ? i went Motor image they quote me $390 to change one absorber (Front) is it expensive ?

 

Any recommendations or comments? im currently driving a subaru R1 (2007).

 

Really need help here :(

[Yc86]

I agree that the front suspension is usually set to a higher spring rate than the rear. But my understanding is that the front should still be more willing to compress than the rear, because the weight in front overcomes the higher spring rate.

 

The settings for coilovers are usually not the same for front and rear. i.e. setting the middle setting on front and rear coilovers do not mean the same damping for front and rear. Usually, the front coilover has a higher damping range than the rear. So setting both front and rear to the middle setting may not be wrong, as the front actually is set at a higher damping force.

 

some good advice by Yc86. To state the obvious, testing should not be done while cruising, but rather through corners, acceleration, deceleration, and even bumps...

 

hmm.. don't understand the term 'more willing to compress'. if the front is stiffer than the rear, it means that more force is required to compress it a set distance (eg 1cm). You can have a 100kg weight compressing a 10kg/mm spring, and a 50kg weight compressing a 5kg/mm spring, and both will compress by 1cm. But yes, if you take into account the CG height, location and max lat/longitudinal G force, then the result might be different. unless you mean the velocity or rate of compression, which is the damper's job not the springs, and yup the fronts have to be higher than the rear also.

 

haha~ tbh i don't think there will be any difference between 1 or 2 or even 5 clicks. u'd have to have a very sensitive butt to feel those things. Might be psychological at first, but after that u get used to it.

 

Hi sorry for the Hijack,

My Car is slightly slanted to the driver side, i measured from floor to the car fender on the left side is 23' and on the right is 22' , visually i can even see it is tilted to the driver side, my question is could it be the absorber that is giving way ? i went Motor image they quote me $390 to change one absorber (Front) is it expensive ?

 

Any recommendations or comments? im currently driving a subaru R1 (2007).

 

Really need help here :(

 

Before you order the shock absorbers.... is your car parked on a straight and level road? If not, one side of the car will be higher than the other, so it's normal. Then, is your corner weight the same? This you need a scale balance under each wheel. If any of this is not symmetrical to +- say 5 or 10kgs, your car will lean to one side slightly. considering that in the R1 the CG is relatively higher, this effect might be more pronounced.

 

It is the springs that support the car's weight, not the shock absorber. Thus there is no reason to change them if your car is not perfectly level. Another more serious reason i can think of is that your front strut tower has deformed or 'mushroomed'.. In that case, the car will not sit level also. Happened to my car before.