Citroen C4 Picasso

[Lycanthrope]

any good SE to intro .. thinking of asking whether can bring in manual version ...

[Sopskysalat]

I changed mine at 26k for $220 excludes GST. At 35k, C&C advised me to change at the next servicing. Since I am going to KL, I changed last week for $200 and workshop told me the spare parts is expensive.

 

So you tell me if it is expensive. Also, mine timing chain and not belt. Lastly, French car is a hate or love relationship. Some driving their third Citroen while I will not do twice for whatever reasons.

 

I feel driving a Chervelot, Opel Ford is better than Peugeot/Citroen/Renault as there is a bigger community out there to share technical knowhow etc. By far, VW has probably one of the most active forum on internet and their cars offer great flexibility in parts replacement and add on.

[Karoon]

test drove the c4 Picasso and its simply amazing.

even massage seats for the front two!

 

hopefully the 5 years warranty will put some worries to rest.  just thinking about how heavily govt will punish diesel car users by 2020.

 

either that, or the toyota wish (font colour reflects the excitement it inspires)

[Vtim]

The Zafira was also high on my list, along with the Grand Picasso and Stepwgn. Here are my notes:

 

Zafira: Plus - 5 year unlimited warranty; predictable handling; comfortable front seats, blind spot indicator. Minus - Less spacious interior, especially the narrow centre seat of the 2nd row; slightly noisy engine; no 3rd row aircon.

 

Grand Picasso: Plus - fuel efficient diesel; high torque; flexible storage compartments; nice interior touches (integrated child mirror, rear blinds...); free 5 year servicing. Minus - unresponsive touchscreen; reliability a question mark.

 

Stepwgn: Plus - Very spacious interior; larger boot; sliding doors; flexible rear tailgate; possibility to seat 8 pax. Minus - tall body (1.84m) may not enter all carparks; 2nd row not individual and cannot fold flat; CVT transmission; more expensive; question mark over PI.

 

In the end we went for the Grand Picasso. It's the lightest, most compact outside, most efficient and cheapest of the three to buy and own, and yet larger inside than the Zafira. On a day-to-day basis, we don't need all 7 seats, so things like behaviour in traffic, ease of parking and yes, ambience take precedence over ultimate size. Regarding reliability, I'm going in with my eyes open, so if anything happens, it won't be a surprise. But apart from small niggles here and there, there haven't been reports of the current model giving major problems. There's also a very active local whatsapp group who reponds immediately to questions. It's been 2 weeks now and I'm enjoying the 16km/l average, even with this crazy traffic!

 

160924_DSC_4120-1.jpg

 

Hey Bro, long time no see liao, so you now drives a C4GP BlueHDi.

 

I thinking of buying a used '15 Grand C4 Picasso 1.6A THP Sunroof to replace my 08 Honda Stream.

 

Heard it is softer in ride and roll a bit more than the Peugeot 5008.

Yes, zafira A was my first conti....now driving previous gen c4gp 1.6thp...haha

 

 

Hi, is the previous gen c4gp 1.6 THP using the EAT6 Aisin gearbox?

[Sopskysalat]

The one in picture is not 2015 model but you are right to say it is a previous generation unit.

THP version is petrol and not diesel in case you are confused.

EAT6 is used in THP and blueHDI models for gen2 picasso whereas e-HDI is paired with ETG6 which is an automated manual that you can read more from this thread which one forumer has great insight on.

 

If you are talking about the gen 1 which is the one in picture, then it is a previous generation Euro 5 THP prince engine mated to EGS6 box which is also an automated manual.

 

Automated manual has its merits - better efficiency, more direct transmission feel since it is coupled to engine directly while EAT6 is a torque converter and it relies on lock-up to push near 100% of its power to the transmission. EAT6 is quicker in shift and smoother compare to ETG6 but less fuel efficient though. But most will prefer a slight less efficient box than a obvious jerking gear change from 1-3 gears.

 

Though many will say diesel engine is better in term of torque but the THP is a better drive offering wider powerband, quieter engine but thirstier engine. So you decide on which one is best suited for the application.

 

Oh yeah, 5008 is a driver's car while GC4P is a passenger car.... GC4P built on EMP2 which offers high body rigidity but soft tuned suspension. When you drive it, it gives you a mixed feeling of apparent body roll on sudden cornering but the chassis gives you a stiff feel. Go try it to feel the different. 5008 is based on old platform though.

 

Suggest you read the whole thread from page one which some forumers offer great opinion of EAT6, THP vs diesel option etc.

 

 

Hey Bro, long time no see liao, so you now drives a C4GP BlueHDi.

 

I thinking of buying a used '15 Grand C4 Picasso 1.6A THP Sunroof to replace my 08 Honda Stream.

 

Heard it is softer in ride and roll a bit more than the Peugeot 5008.

 

 

Hi, is the previous gen c4gp 1.6 THP using the EAT6 Aisin gearbox?2017-04-19_222448.jpg

 

[Vtim]

The one in picture is not 2015 model but you are right to say it is a previous generation unit.

THP version is petrol and not diesel in case you are confused.

EAT6 is used in THP and blueHDI models for gen2 picasso whereas e-HDI is paired with ETG6 which is an automated manual that you can read more from this thread which one forumer has great insight on.

 

If you are talking about the gen 1 which is the one in picture, then it is a previous generation Euro 5 THP prince engine mated to EGS6 box which is also an automated manual.

 

Automated manual has its merits - better efficiency, more direct transmission feel since it is coupled to engine directly while EAT6 is a torque converter and it relies on lock-up to push near 100% of its power to the transmission. EAT6 is quicker in shift and smoother compare to ETG6 but less fuel efficient though. But most will prefer a slight less efficient box than a obvious jerking gear change from 1-3 gears.

 

Though many will say diesel engine is better in term of torque but the THP is a better drive offering wider powerband, quieter engine but thirstier engine. So you decide on which one is best suited for the application.

 

Oh yeah, 5008 is a driver's car while GC4P is a passenger car.... GC4P built on EMP2 which offers high body rigidity but soft tuned suspension. When you drive it, it gives you a mixed feeling of apparent body roll on sudden cornering but the chassis gives you a stiff feel. Go try it to feel the different. 5008 is based on old platform though.

 

Suggest you read the whole thread from page one which some forumers offer great opinion of EAT6, THP vs diesel option etc.

 

I am eyeing at 2 differ gen of C4GP, the pic I post is previous Gen 2013 model 1.6 THP petrol which is on sale, I just need to confirm it is EAT6 which is effectively fully auto box using Torque Converter from Aisin, which is very very reliable.

 

There is another one on sale which is the 2015 model 1.6 THP petrol and faced lift in 2017 model which is also EAT6.

 

I prefer the EAT6 box as compare to the ETG6 or ESG6 which is basically Automatic Manual gearbox which Alfa Romeo 159 was the 1st production car to adopt which is call Selespeed IIRC.

[Sopskysalat]

I may be wrong but gen 1 is EGS6. Check the gear knob. Automated manual usually comes with selection of RNAM while torque converter has PRNDM.

 

Although EAT6 is smooth and reliable but it is dumbwit which is a characteristic of Aisin 6speeder? I reckon since i tried a few others make which pair with an Aisin 6spd such as Chevrolet, Opel and Volvo etc. Why? It tends to hold gear and resist shifting up say after high revs and drop gear unnecessary. But if you do lots of expressway, it is good due to its tall gearing at 6th. If i can remember, slightly over 3k rpm at 160km/hr making it very fuel efficient doing long drive. And at 110km/hr, the instantaneous FC around 5L/100 for the THP version.

 

Oh, i tried opel astra 1.0t with easytronic 3.0 last week. OMG, it has so much power that you will not think it is a 1L engine pair with an automated 5spd manual which I will take it anytime over the Aisin 6 spd used in its bigger 1.4T mode. But this is outside the context of what is discussed here.

 

Nothing beats DSG (6 speed), ZF8 and Aisin 8spd.... though... haha

 

I am eyeing at 2 differ gen of C4GP, the pic I post is previous Gen 2013 model 1.6 THP petrol which is on sale, I just need to confirm it is EAT6 which is effectively fully auto box using Torque Converter from Aisin, which is very very reliable.

 

There is another one on sale which is the 2015 model 1.6 THP petrol and faced lift in 2017 model which is also EAT6.

 

I prefer the EAT6 box as compare to the ETG6 or ESG6 which is basically Automatic Manual gearbox which Alfa Romeo 159 was the 1st production car to adopt which is call Selespeed IIRC.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sopskysalat

[Sopskysalat]

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2697506-cat-a-diesel-mpv-touran-vs-5008-vs-scenic-vs-grand-picasso/page-7?do=findComment&comment=5618190

 

read this... if not read the whole thread too.

[Vtim]

I may be wrong but gen 1 is EGS6. Check the gear knob. Automated manual usually comes with selection of RNAM while torque converter has PRNDM.

 

Although EAT6 is smooth and reliable but it is dumbwit which is a characteristic of Aisin 6speeder? I reckon since i tried a few others make which pair with an Aisin 6spd such as Chevrolet, Opel and Volvo etc. Why? It tends to hold gear and resist shifting up say after high revs and drop gear unnecessary. But if you do lots of expressway, it is good due to its tall gearing at 6th. If i can remember, slightly over 3k rpm at 160km/hr making it very fuel efficient doing long drive. And at 110km/hr, the instantaneous FC around 5L/100 for the THP version.

 

Oh, i tried opel astra 1.0t with easytronic 3.0 last week. OMG, it has so much power that you will not think it is a 1L engine pair with an automated 5spd manual which I will take it anytime over the Aisin 6 spd used in its bigger 1.4T mode. But this is outside the context of what is discussed here.

 

Nothing beats DSG (6 speed), ZF8 and Aisin 8spd.... though... haha

 

Thanks for the info on the gear part, I need to go down to take a look at the gear knob, don't really trust what used car dealer describe on SGCARMART.

 

Was also told by Furrynadz that the ECU programming on the C4GP is more on the "relax & cruise" side whereas on the 5008 it will be more on the "lively" side so I would expect the Auto mode on the C4GP to be slower to up and down shift, this has nothing to do with the Aisin box itself per say.

 

My 08 stream's ECU was also hacked into by one of the Civic members and have selected another store mapping inside instead of the default factory settings for export country as told to me by Joey of Harmony Motor which had dyno tune my previous Trajet. So my Stream's both up and down shift is faster than stock, RPM will max out at around 6100RPM before up shift every time I pedal to the metal, throttle response is faster (don't have to install after market e-throttle). All this was done after I have driven in stock condition for about a year.

 

Actually, I prefer manual gearbox since I started owning a car in '89 but because I needed a 7 seater (having 4 kids) so no choice. In the 90's I owned 2 Alfa Romeos 33, one is Twin Carb and the other their very first fuel injected version, front brake pads need to be changed almost every 6 to 7 mths, clutch pads were replaced yearly because I always dump the clutch during pickup, back then the only launch control is my left foot on the clutch...hahaha..

 

So, I am down to 3 choice for the moment, would prefer a used petrol version of 5008 follow by C4GP and lastly VW Touran.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Vtim

[Zafira18]

Thanks for the info on the gear part, I need to go down to take a look at the gear knob, don't really trust what used car dealer describe on SGCARMART.

 

Was also told by Furrynadz that the ECU programming on the C4GP is more on the "relax & cruise" side whereas on the 5008 it will be more on the "lively" side so I would expect the Auto mode on the C4GP to be slower to up and down shift, this has nothing to do with the Aisin box itself per say.

 

My 08 stream's ECU was also hacked into by one of the Civic members and have selected another store mapping inside instead of the default factory settings for export country as told to me by Joey of Harmony Motor which had dyno tune my previous Trajet. So my Stream's both up and down shift is faster than stock, RPM will max out at around 6100RPM before up shift every time I pedal to the metal, throttle response is faster (don't have to install after market e-throttle). All this was done after I have driven in stock condition for about a year.

 

Actually, I prefer manual gearbox since I started owning a car in '89 but because I needed a 7 seater (having 4 kids) so no choice. In the 90's I owned 2 Alfa Romeos 33, one is Twin Carb and the other their very first fuel injected version, front brake pads need to be changed almost every 6 to 7 mths, clutch pads were replaced yearly because I always dump the clutch during pickup, back then the only launch control is my left foot on the clutch...hahaha..

 

So, I am down to 3 choice for the moment, would prefer a used 5008 than C4GP and lastly VW Touran.

2013 c4gp is definately a EGS gearbox. EAT aisin gearbox only come in late 2015 which is the pre facelift for current model.

Yes, i like the egs gearbox and very good in overtaking in highway. Between EGS and current EAT gearbox, u can see the new model has better hp and torque compare to previous model but the 0-100km/hr and top speed cant beat the previous model. And not forgetting the current mod is almost 200kg lighter than previous model.

My 2010 is coming to 6.5 yrs this month and going back agent for a clutch replacement....still enjoy the ride..

[Sopskysalat]

wow... you should not be driving a MPV but a race car lah...

First, you can programme TCU but with limitation.

Shift faster can be a result of upshifting at lower speed instead of having to shift at higher pre-determined speed.

You can't change mechanical system to shift "faster" but i reckon the "faster shift" is a result of lower speed upshift.

 

Also, with DSG, you can't shift faster than DSG but be prepared to fix it if it breaks down. ETG/EGS/DSG are not build to last more than 200k like Old Auto. You will need to prepare for overall of DSG at 120k mileage while 80k for ETG/EGS (estimated figure).

 

5008 has firmer suspension and probably stiffer steering while Citroen gives softer suspension and lighter steering (stiffened at higher speed). What C4P offers is its stiffer body that is firmed and of higher rigidity.

 

Touran is good car too. For a real driver car for MPV in my opinion, it is a Ford S-Max 240ps ecoboost or a Sharan. The former drives like a Mondeo (same platform). 

 

Thanks for the info on the gear part, I need to go down to take a look at the gear knob, don't really trust what used car dealer describe on SGCARMART.

 

Was also told by Furrynadz that the ECU programming on the C4GP is more on the "relax & cruise" side whereas on the 5008 it will be more on the "lively" side so I would expect the Auto mode on the C4GP to be slower to up and down shift, this has nothing to do with the Aisin box itself per say.

 

My 08 stream's ECU was also hacked into by one of the Civic members and have selected another store mapping inside instead of the default factory settings for export country as told to me by Joey of Harmony Motor which had dyno tune my previous Trajet. So my Stream's both up and down shift is faster than stock, RPM will max out at around 6100RPM before up shift every time I pedal to the metal, throttle response is faster (don't have to install after market e-throttle). All this was done after I have driven in stock condition for about a year.

 

Actually, I prefer manual gearbox since I started owning a car in '89 but because I needed a 7 seater (having 4 kids) so no choice. In the 90's I owned 2 Alfa Romeos 33, one is Twin Carb and the other their very first fuel injected version, front brake pads need to be changed almost every 6 to 7 mths, clutch pads were replaced yearly because I always dump the clutch during pickup, back then the only launch control is my left foot on the clutch...hahaha..

 

So, I am down to 3 choice for the moment, would prefer a used 5008 than C4GP and lastly VW Touran.

 

[Sopskysalat]

Old THP and new THP is a different of 10bhp with the same torque.

I like automated manual for low speed due to direct feel but at higher speed, traditional torque converter like a EAT6 should lockup, thus offering the same direct transmission of power from engine to wheel.

 

Why the different in top speed is strange because if you look at UK specification for the same setup, the top speed is higher than the listed figure in C&C. On top of that, they are many factors affecting top speed too such as gear ratio and engine. Most importantly, we don't buy car with higher top speed but the way it drive, perform and reliability of it.

 

Torque converter auto is getting better such as ZF8 which was already good some 5 years ago. EAT6 is good but not as good as the 8 speeder such as Aisin 8sp and ZF8. I have seen how 9G-Tronic perform and must as it is not as impressive as ZF8 though... 

 

 

-----------------------

 

2013 c4gp is definately a EGS gearbox. EAT aisin gearbox only come in late 2015 which is the pre facelift for current model.
Yes, i like the egs gearbox and very good in overtaking in highway. Between EGS and current EAT gearbox, u can see the new model has better hp and torque compare to previous model but the 0-100km/hr and top speed cant beat the previous model. And not forgetting the current mod is almost 200kg lighter than previous model.
My 2010 is coming to 6.5 yrs this month and going back agent for a clutch replacement....still enjoy the ride..

[Vtim]

2013 c4gp is definately a EGS gearbox. EAT aisin gearbox only come in late 2015 which is the pre facelift for current model.

Yes, i like the egs gearbox and very good in overtaking in highway. Between EGS and current EAT gearbox, u can see the new model has better hp and torque compare to previous model but the 0-100km/hr and top speed cant beat the previous model. And not forgetting the current mod is almost 200kg lighter than previous model.

My 2010 is coming to 6.5 yrs this month and going back agent for a clutch replacement....still enjoy the ride..

 

 

I see, thanks for the info. Yes, I realised the newer version is much lighter, maybe will try to get the 2015 version.

[Vtim]

wow... you should not be driving a MPV but a race car lah...

First, you can programme TCU but with limitation.

Shift faster can be a result of upshifting at lower speed instead of having to shift at higher pre-determined speed.

You can't change mechanical system to shift "faster" but i reckon the "faster shift" is a result of lower speed upshift.

 

Also, with DSG, you can't shift faster than DSG but be prepared to fix it if it breaks down. ETG/EGS/DSG are not build to last more than 200k like Old Auto. You will need to prepare for overall of DSG at 120k mileage while 80k for ETG/EGS (estimated figure).

 

5008 has firmer suspension and probably stiffer steering while Citroen gives softer suspension and lighter steering (stiffened at higher speed). What C4P offers is its stiffer body that is firmed and of higher rigidity.

 

Touran is good car too. For a real driver car for MPV in my opinion, it is a Ford S-Max 240ps ecoboost or a Sharan. The former drives like a Mondeo (same platform). 

 

I used to bring family up north for short holidays, so basically torque is more important to me for overtaking rather than all out top speed. Max done on my 2L Trajet with 4 adults (Mum + Maid) + 4 kids is only around 180kmh on speedo (170kmh on GPS) but that was about 9 or 10yrs back.

 

actually, the gear box response in shifting for my Stream is slightly faster than stock after the ECU hacking, I often drop to D3 and D2 during corners in my daily drive and I can feel the difference. The stock shifting timing do have a lag which I wasn't comfortable with.

 

Ford S-max 2L Ecoboost was actually my top choice but the price is not within my reach, there was one that was sold about 1 mth back, '13 model selling $104k IIRC. With RaceChip Ultimate, it can go up to 302BHP & 435NM. Only think that hold me back is the DCT box, not sure how is the condition and oversea forums have complaints about the failure of the DCT box before it is due for maintenance schedule. For local, it will cost around $8k to $12k to replace the GETRAG 6DCT450 box.

 

In another 2 years I can withdraw part of my CPF liao so I do not want to spend too much $$$ on car, I need one is because of my job that require me to drive around. I may be retrench any time 2 years from now so I prefer to get a used car, if kanna retrench than I just scrap the car without having to pay very high penalty for outstanding amount owed to the bank.

 

All my previous car are all NA, so I was thinking of trying out a T/C 7 seater for a change before I get much older..hahaha...

[Sopskysalat]

In my opinion, keeping the car stock is important for various reason including ensuring it to be in good working condition that will translate into lower maintenance and cost. Powershift is one with high probability of issues and that explains why Ford has reverted back to torque converter. Scarifies on fast shifting for longevity and comfort. Talk to Regent Motor and their service agent will not deny the high cases of transmission problem. 

 

Get one you love and drives well...

 

I used to bring family up north for short holidays, so basically torque is more important to me for overtaking rather than all out top speed. Max done on my 2L Trajet with 4 adults (Mum + Maid) + 4 kids is only around 180kmh on speedo (170kmh on GPS) but that was about 9 or 10yrs back.

 

actually, the gear box response in shifting for my Stream is slightly faster than stock after the ECU hacking, I often drop to D3 and D2 during corners in my daily drive and I can feel the difference. The stock shifting timing do have a lag which I wasn't comfortable with.

 

Ford S-max 2L Ecoboost was actually my top choice but the price is not within my reach, there was one that was sold about 1 mth back, '13 model selling $104k IIRC. With RaceChip Ultimate, it can go up to 302BHP & 435NM. Only think that hold me back is the DCT box, not sure how is the condition and oversea forums have complaints about the failure of the DCT box before it is due for maintenance schedule. For local, it will cost around $8k to $12k to replace the GETRAG 6DCT450 box.

 

In another 2 years I can withdraw part of my CPF liao so I do not want to spend too much $$$ on car, I need one is because of my job that require me to drive around. I may be retrench any time 2 years from now so I prefer to get a used car, if kanna retrench than I just scrap the car without having to pay very high penalty for outstanding amount owed to the bank.

 

All my previous car are all NA, so I was thinking of trying out a T/C 7 seater for a change before I get much older..hahaha...

 

[Vtim]

In my opinion, keeping the car stock is important for various reason including ensuring it to be in good working condition that will translate into lower maintenance and cost. Powershift is one with high probability of issues and that explains why Ford has reverted back to torque converter. Scarifies on fast shifting for longevity and comfort. Talk to Regent Motor and their service agent will not deny the high cases of transmission problem. 

 

Get one you love and drives well...

 

yes, latest Ford S-Max 2L Petrol Ecoboost 240BHP is using full auto tranny (Torque Convertor)

[Lycanthrope]

good move  .. currently driving the S-Max with the dual clutch GB .. had problems with the GB ... now waiting for the parts to arrive .. 

 

good drive ..but tranny sucks ...Literally can feel the tranny is suffering whenever there is traffic jams

 

yes, latest Ford S-Max 2L Petrol Ecoboost 240BHP is using full auto tranny (Torque Convertor)

 

[Vtim]

found a Oct 2013 Peugeot 5008 1.6 Turbo Luxury, hope to drive it by Friday