China 歼-20 first flight new photos

[Beregond]

9 minutes ago, Arogab said:

I wonder how many have they finally produce to date. They must  have the capability to mass produce then can boast about it

About 150 only. Its not an easy plane to build, Its also very expensive even for china( even when china production cost is much cheaper then USA )

Similarly F22 is so expensive to build and maintain that usa cut its production and focus on the smaller and cheaper f35.  

 

[Arogab]

17 hours ago, Beregond said:

About 150 only. Its not an easy plane to build, Its also very expensive even for china( even when china production cost is much cheaper then USA )

Similarly F22 is so expensive to build and maintain that usa cut its production and focus on the smaller and cheaper f35.  

 

 

17 hours ago, happy_man said:

The last time J-20 appeared in large no. was during China national day last year... 15 of them.  What surprised the observers isn't about the large formation appearing, but all are powered by Chinese-made WS-10 engines, not the early models with Russian AL-31F engine- which limit no. of J-20 can be build..

So the full rate production of newer versions may alright being ramped up after no longer dependent on  Russian engines supply. In fact today,  SCMP ran a report about another new version  -  https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3163986/china-start-upgrading-j-20-fighter-engines-bid-close-gap-us-f

This is the problem, imagine when they are into a war and there is five F35 against one J20. What will be the winning rate. Strategically they are also concentrating to have their own GPS BeiDuo system to ensure they don't loose out. But how to compete when you don't have numbers. I am not pro AM but there is a winning edge at this moment

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Arogab said:

This is the problem, imagine when they are into a war and there is five F35 against one J20. What will be the winning rate. Strategically they are also concentrating to have their own GPS BeiDuo system to ensure they don't loose out. But how to compete when you don't have numbers. I am not pro AM but there is a winning edge at this moment

For modern air-to-air combat, it is always about beyond sight combat.

It relies on who has a better sensor for locking and guiding missile.

More <> better.

[Beregond]

6 minutes ago, Arogab said:

 

This is the problem, imagine when they are into a war and there is five F35 against one J20. What will be the winning rate. Strategically they are also concentrating to have their own GPS BeiDuo system to ensure they don't loose out. But how to compete when you don't have numbers. I am not pro AM but there is a winning edge at this moment

US  got 700+ f35 , even their f22 numbers alone about 150 + is almost the same as china J20  already ,

China is no match for US in term of air power  

Their navy power lack behind US  even more.

But then , war is not fight with equipment alone. 

[Vinyl]

11 minutes ago, Beregond said:

US  got 700+ f35 , even their f22 numbers alone about 150 + is almost the same as china J20  already ,

China is no match for US in term of air power  

Their navy power lack behind US  even more.

But then , war is not fight with equipment alone. 

US has more than $700bn annual military budget, how to match the numbers? The next 10 countries military budget combined also not as much as US.

Fortunately, there's a thing called nuclear deterrent that prevent superpowers from causing WW3.

[Nolicense]

obviously there is a tactic called force concentration and combined arms. no body will want to fight just a bunch of planes vs planes.. 

there is also the long supply line, you cant fight a war with only 2 carriers load of planes. 

[Beregond]

34 minutes ago, Nolicense said:

obviously there is a tactic called force concentration and combined arms. no body will want to fight just a bunch of planes vs planes.. 

there is also the long supply line, you cant fight a war with only 2 carriers load of planes. 

We think too much liao.

Look at the current russia ukraine crisis, USA statement is , if russia invade ukraine, u guess it right, they not going to defend ukraine, as usual they will use sanctions ,sanctions and more sanctions ( as if sanctions work on russia and china??)

Its quite naive to believe for real, usa will fight for TW against china ( if china indeed use force )

All the discussion is for fun only. But the fact still remain, if 1 v 1 out in the open ocean non  nuke, usa will wack china left right centre.

But in china home ground, in SCS? And take in all the political factor??

[Nolicense]

9 minutes ago, Beregond said:

We think too much liao.

Look at the current russia ukraine crisis, USA statement is , if russia invade ukraine, u guess it right, they not going to defend ukraine, as usual they will use sanctions ,sanctions and more sanctions ( as if sanctions work on russia and china??)

Its quite naive to believe for real, usa will fight for TW against china ( if china indeed use force )

All the discussion is for fun only. But the fact still remain, if 1 v 1 out in the open ocean non  nuke, usa will wack china left right centre.

But in china home ground, in SCS? And take in all the political factor??

russia not going to invade ukraine... its all cia sending spreading info of false flag operation. what worry them is ukraine might actually themselves do a false flag operation. 

[Volvobrick]

14 minutes ago, Beregond said:

We think too much liao.

Look at the current russia ukraine crisis, USA statement is , if russia invade ukraine, u guess it right, they not going to defend ukraine, as usual they will use sanctions ,sanctions and more sanctions ( as if sanctions work on russia and china??)

Its quite naive to believe for real, usa will fight for TW against china ( if china indeed use force )

All the discussion is for fun only. But the fact still remain, if 1 v 1 out in the open ocean non  nuke, usa will wack china left right centre.

But in china home ground, in SCS? And take in all the political factor??

Why should US defend Ukraine? It is not a NATO member and it is an European problem.  Even if/when Russian occupies half of Ukraine, it is still hundreds of km from NATO borders.

And the last thing Biden can afford now is starting a new war. Putin made his calculations already.

TW is part of the first island china.  Strategically a whole lot more important.

[Nolicense]

11 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Why should US defend Ukraine? It is not a NATO member and it is an European problem.  Even if/when Russian occupies half of Ukraine, it is still hundreds of km from NATO borders.

And the last thing Biden can afford now is starting a new war. Putin made his calculations already.

TW is part of the first island china.  Strategically a whole lot more important.

actually they just want a few things.

ukraine want the gas to flow through transit, and shut down nordstream 2, us want eu buy their lng. eu is the sucker.

also ukraine seems to have lots of neo nazis now.. many are anti russia and xenophobic. seems like a powder keg.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Nolicense

[Beregond]

3 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Why should US defend Ukraine? It is not a NATO member and it is an European problem.  Even if/when Russian occupies half of Ukraine, it is still hundreds of km from NATO borders.

And the last thing Biden can afford now is starting a new war. Putin made his calculations already.

TW is part of the first island china.  Strategically a whole lot more important.

My english level very hard to explain , Saw a report by some 1 last time, Its about a war of ideals something like that , if ukraine fall to russia, then the human rights and democracy which usa fight and stand fall will take a huge blow, and worst  still, its a huge blow for their reputation as the police of the world etc etc. Opposition leader in many countries will began to have alot of doubt about having US  as their backers.

Not to mention when SU  break up, the west promise ukraine protection from russia if they give up their nukes.

How to say? It will make the west look extremely bad if ukraine fall to russia. 

(but anw i dun believe russia will invade ukraine outright.)

[Volvobrick]

Just now, Beregond said:

My english level very hard to explain , Saw a report by some 1 last time, Its about a war of ideals something like that , if ukraine fall to russia, then the human rights and democracy which usa fight and stand fall will take a huge blow, and worst  still, its a huge blow for their reputation as the police of the world etc etc. Opposition leader in many countries will began to have alot of doubt about having US  as their backers.

Not to mention when SU  break up, the west promise ukraine protection from russia if they give up their nukes.

How to say? It will make the west look extremely bad if ukraine fall to russia. 

(but anw i dun believe russia will invade ukraine outright.)

US is no longer the policeman of the world nor it wants to now.  Only possible when they were unchallenged with plenty of spare resources.  Now they have to deal with upcoming superpower challenging them for dominance.  Anyone who believes promises made by anyone else only can blame themselves.

For us just get ready the popcorn and see how Putin plays the game to get what he wants.

 

[Nolicense]

38 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

US is no longer the policeman of the world nor it wants to now.  Only possible when they were unchallenged with plenty of spare resources.  Now they have to deal with upcoming superpower challenging them for dominance.  Anyone who believes promises made by anyone else only can blame themselves.

For us just get ready the popcorn and see how Putin plays the game to get what he wants.

 

still think they are policeman? watch this

 

[Arogab]

3 hours ago, inlinesix said:

For modern air-to-air combat, it is always about beyond sight combat.

It relies on who has a better sensor for locking and guiding missile.

More <> better.

So who got the better upper hand?😄

3 hours ago, Beregond said:

US  got 700+ f35 , even their f22 numbers alone about 150 + is almost the same as china J20  already ,

China is no match for US in term of air power  

Their navy power lack behind US  even more.

But then , war is not fight with equipment alone. 

On the overall, but China is growing. I think China now got more missiles and fleet is coming up and is continue to build

2 hours ago, happy_man said:

I read the stealth air assets are deployed differently from conventional fighters since they are inherently expensive and missions nature are different. So why measure war in terms of xxx no. when J-20/F-35/F-22 aren't designed to be deployed in large no. ?😜

This probably still need to count numbers. In WWII, the Germany and Japs facilities were destroyed to prevent them from building more. Stealth is not detected, it shall be detected after being bomded. Haha

[inlinesix]

9 minutes ago, Arogab said:

So who got the better upper hand?😄

 

Have to put both planes head to head😜😜

[Arogab]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

Have to put both planes head to head😜😜

Wah, I am not in position to put them head o head leh😂

[inlinesix]

4 minutes ago, Arogab said:

Wah, I am not in position to put them head o head leh😂

There was rumour that Israeli flew F35a in and out Iran without Iranian knowing it.

IDF F35a are modded with Israeli goodies.

[Arogab]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:05 PM, inlinesix said:

There was rumour that Israeli flew F35a in and out Iran without Iranian knowing it.

IDF F35a are modded with Israeli goodies.

F35 quite proven