Used car dealers tampering odometer readings

[Leo72]

we can all agree that the meter can be tempered with. so how to tell if the meter is tempered.? very easy. just ask for the service records. most dealers will have to dispose of all service record as it does not tally with the tempered meter.

if there is a service record like all owner cars have .it means honest meter reading.

take the guesswork out .

The authority actually can help to stamp out odo tempering by just passing a rule or law that odo meter reading to be specify in the Inspection certificate and inspection record database (best will be a photo of the odo meter reading included). There will reduce odo tempering since cars will need to go or inspection at the end of 3rd year upon registration.

[Ingenius]

The authority actually can help to stamp out odo tempering by just passing a rule or law that odo meter reading to be specify in the Inspection certificate and inspection record database (best will be a photo of the odo meter reading included). There will reduce odo tempering since cars will need to go or inspection at the end of 3rd year upon registration.

If before each inspection the odometer is being adjusted to lower then how to tell ? Even if odometer dont match records, owner can say the odometer is spoilt, then what should the authorities do ? If the owner say the mileage was already wrong when bought over from previous owner.. and the previous owner say it was the dealer who might have adjusted ..

 

Is it even possible to find the culprit, and how much resources is needed ?

 

And there are like 700k cars, how to investigate so many cases of suspected tempering ? Just 1% of car population is 7k, 20 each day, how to enforce ? Impound each car, run test and go to court. Wow, easy to say and come up with half baked ideas.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Ingenius

[macrosszero]

If before each inspection the odometer is being adjusted to lower then how to tell ? Even if odometer dont match records, owner can say the odometer is spoilt, then what should the authorities do ? If the owner say the mileage was already wrong when bought over from previous owner.. and the previous owner say it was the dealer who might have adjusted ..

 

Is it even possible to find the culprit, and how much resources is needed ?

 

And there are like 700k cars, how to investigate so many cases of suspected tempering ? Just 1% of car population is 7k, 20 each day, how to enforce ? Impound each car, run test and go to court. Wow, easy to say and come up with half baked ideas.

 

Hahaha since when has odometer spoil before - especially when Singapore cars are typically so young? I've owned half a dozen cars in my life from 20 plus year old cars to brand new cars, and not a single one has had a dashboard cluster fault, let alone an odometer fault.

 

In any case, try playing the "spoilt" card when it comes to legal aftermarket exhaust pipes that have had their tags/identification number stampings or paperwork lost - in LTA's judgement, the onus is on the driver to figure something out. Just like if you needed a complete crate engine for whatever reason. The owner has to go back to the agent to get the necessary endorsements in order to get the LTA to update its records, so why can't an odometer be the same?

 

Therefore it is more a question of whether the LTA wants to enforce the tracking of mileage or not only - and what follow up actions to take (or not) once an anomaly is detected. In my opinion, monitoring and placing it on record is good enough without taking direct action. I see that SGCarmart seems to also have the practice of obscuring the mileage of expired or sold cars, wonder why that is the case? It takes concerted effort to protect the buyer from odometer clocking, but it appears that there is plenty of room for plausible deniability with the consumer having to exercise caveat emptor ad nauseam ad infinitum.

[Ingenius]

Hahaha since when has odometer spoil before - especially when Singapore cars are typically so young? I've owned half a dozen cars in my life from 20 plus year old cars to brand new cars, and not a single one has had a dashboard cluster fault, let alone an odometer fault.

 

In any case, try playing the "spoilt" card when it comes to legal aftermarket exhaust pipes that have had their tags/identification number stampings or paperwork lost - in LTA's judgement, the onus is on the driver to figure something out. Just like if you needed a complete crate engine for whatever reason. The owner has to go back to the agent to get the necessary endorsements in order to get the LTA to update its records, so why can't an odometer be the same?

 

Therefore it is more a question of whether the LTA wants to enforce the tracking of mileage or not only - and what follow up actions to take (or not) once an anomaly is detected. In my opinion, monitoring and placing it on record is good enough without taking direct action. I see that SGCarmart seems to also have the practice of obscuring the mileage of expired or sold cars, wonder why that is the case? It takes concerted effort to protect the buyer from odometer clocking, but it appears that there is plenty of room for plausible deniability with the consumer having to exercise caveat emptor ad nauseam ad infinitum.

There is nothing to stop the owner from claiming that he doesnt know why the odometer reading is wrong, citing perhaps the odometer is faulty.  Then who's responsibilities is it to prove , the owner, dealer, previous owner or LTA ?  It will become a circus. 

 

You said "In my opinion, monitoring and placing it on record is good enough without taking direct action. ''.  But what is the point of having unverified mileage records in database ?  Then odometers will still be tempered with and records are just records.  And the whole point of my argument is that, it is impractical to enforce.  Beside mileage, what about other aspects of car, like claims of new tire, parked under shade, accident free, serviced regularly.. good to monitor and record this as well in the name of consumer protection ?  Better still enforce them also ? 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Ingenius

[Leo72]

Hahaha since when has odometer spoil before - especially when Singapore cars are typically so young? I've owned half a dozen cars in my life from 20 plus year old cars to brand new cars, and not a single one has had a dashboard cluster fault, let alone an odometer fault.

 

In any case, try playing the "spoilt" card when it comes to legal aftermarket exhaust pipes that have had their tags/identification number stampings or paperwork lost - in LTA's judgement, the onus is on the driver to figure something out. Just like if you needed a complete crate engine for whatever reason. The owner has to go back to the agent to get the necessary endorsements in order to get the LTA to update its records, so why can't an odometer be the same?

 

Therefore it is more a question of whether the LTA wants to enforce the tracking of mileage or not only - and what follow up actions to take (or not) once an anomaly is detected. In my opinion, monitoring and placing it on record is good enough without taking direct action. I see that SGCarmart seems to also have the practice of obscuring the mileage of expired or sold cars, wonder why that is the case? It takes concerted effort to protect the buyer from odometer clocking, but it appears that there is plenty of room for plausible deniability with the consumer having to exercise caveat emptor ad nauseam ad infinitum.

Most owners will not temper the odo meter reading but used car dealers. So the record will make the used dealers think twice on spending effort to temper with the reading and even if the used car dealers temper with the reading, they cannot adjust it too much since there is records somewhere.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Leo72

[macrosszero]

There is nothing to stop the owner from claiming that he doesnt know why the odometer reading is wrong, citing perhaps the odometer is faulty.  Then who's responsibilities is it to prove , the owner, dealer, previous owner or LTA ?  It will become a circus. 

 

You said "In my opinion, monitoring and placing it on record is good enough without taking direct action. ''.  But what is the point of having unverified mileage records in database ?  Then odometers will still be tempered with and records are just records.  And the whole point of my argument is that, it is impractical to enforce.  Beside mileage, what about other aspects of car, like claims of new tire, parked under shade, accident free, serviced regularly.. good to monitor and record this as well in the name of consumer protection ?  Better still enforce them also ? 

 

It would appear you are only thinking about what the authorities could do - but the point is that buyers themselves can avoid cars that have a recorded odometer anomaly. Dealers will also think twice about taking on such cars that will be harder to resell at a good price, or at all.

[nono81]

thought this is a common practice.......

[Ecgwee]

in sgp it is illegal to go in group of 5 or more without a police permit. But most of us commit the crime and get away with it cos the police dont bother to enforce it.

Can they enforce it ? probably yes but ljke the mileage case it will take too much manpower

[sHy3r]

My friend used to know someone who do as sideline to tune vw/audi cars milege for $200-300... all done in 5sec.

[MarshallBarnes]

I need an advice

 

Hi guys, I'm a new member. I want to buy a car via https://incacar.com but I´m a bit worried about that, just if they are reliable. Is there someone who knows them, or bought a car from them? 

What do you think about that? Thanks for answers.

[ER-3682]

 

I need an advice

 

Hi guys, I'm a new member. I want to buy a car via https://incacar.com but I´m a bit worried about that, just if they are reliable. Is there someone who knows them, or bought a car from them? 

What do you think about that? Thanks for answers.

 

Bring a Friend that is good in Car...view it for you.

[Sdf4786k]

almost every car in the market that is offered with new 5 or 10 year coe is approx 110-130k km in mileage. how can this be when the average annual mileage is 20k a year in Singapore.

 

without proper documented service history, then 99.999% is adjusted.

 

I know of at least 2 owners. 2014 golf 24,000 KM and another 2014 now just clock 60,000km

 

I think if there is a authentication system like a social media page, it would help the low mileage owners

Edited March 18, 2019 by Sdf4786k

[Guysmokey]

 

I need an advice

 

Hi guys, I'm a new member. I want to buy a car via https://incacar.com but I´m a bit worried about that, just if they are reliable. Is there someone who knows them, or bought a car from them? 

What do you think about that? Thanks for answers.

 

 

Bro, 

 

The link you provided is an American website.

 

You want to buy car in SG or in USA? :P

[Lovemyride]

I know of at least 2 owners. 2014 golf 24,000 KM and another 2014 now just clock 60,000km

 

I think if there is a authentication system like a social media page, it would help the low mileage owners

 

Yeah there are actually many people with low mileage cars around even on normal plates. 

Usually it's people who work in town and live near MRT, so they take MRT to work rather than drive. And no huge family commitments like ferrying kids around. 

 

I thought mine is low (late 2015, 23k) but the two examples you quoted are lower. AD is the best bet although most people will end up servicing outside after the warranty period. My mileage is low but already completed 30k servicing at AD. Not in sync and it's driving me mad. I'm trying to do odd numbers at outside workshop and major even numbers at AD, so the records are still maintained at AD and keep the costs low. I did try to service every 9 months instead of the usual 6 but it might not be ideal as the car gets older and has to be checked more often for wear and tear parts. 

[VictorTQT]

My friend used to know someone who do as sideline to tune vw/audi cars milege for $200-300... all done in 5sec.

[Sdf4786k]

That is quite scary to know this. Since one of the advantage that buyer (also including me) want to buy from direct owner (even can offer higher premium for a car) is that they hope the mileage of the car has not been tampered (together with what we believe that the direct owner who is currently  driving the car should maintain and take care it better than the dealers). Now with this information, the direct owner   could spend $200-300 to tune the mileage to the much lower number and later can get back of ~1k when he sell off his car to the direct buyer.

 

there is still a way to check ..u can reverse the mileage. u cannot change one item that is related to mileage and thats where u get caught. The service reset that is embbed in the ecu.

[sHy3r]

there is still a way to check ..u can reverse the mileage. u cannot change one item that is related to mileage and thats where u get caught. The service reset that is embbed in the ecu.

Haha i was about to say that.

 

Tuning of milege is reversible... ECU is not stupid in a way new codes install and previous are forgotten.

 

There r workshops who trial and error on codes to the ECU.

 

So, just need to pay again for people to check.

[Sdf4786k]

Haha i was about to say that.

 

Tuning of milege is reversible... ECU is not stupid in a way new codes install and previous are forgotten.

 

There r workshops who trial and error on codes to the ECU.

 

So, just need to pay again for people to check.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Sdf4786k