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Gearbox issues; and problems at VW Service Centre


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yes, please. it'd b much appreciated. and if it's too sensitive, do pm me.

I was previously from the technical support side. I was transferred to the supplier quality side 3 years ago.

Nowadays there are a lot of outsourcing. The Germans not excluded.

 

 

 

sorry a little drunk now....

 

 

There is a lot of horizontal sourcing nowadays... many supppliers who have to comply to the VDA 6 quality system and process

 

Sorry... let me continue tomorrow. I am really drunk now. I am now in China.

Edited by Fels
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I am from the automotive industry. Do you want to hear my opinion?

Rest well....a sober view is definitely more reliable than an intoxicated opinion.

Edited by Cbx750p
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I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

Edited by Detach8
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I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

 

Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

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I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

Bro, do u think the issue is w outsourcing or the initial r&d bugs not resolveD? Id like to think of vit as the latter.
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Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

 

Yes, the DSG 7 dry clutch assembly DQ200 is outsourced to LuK. Borg Warner makes the DSG 6 wet clutch DQ250.

Outsourcing is OK. It is in fact the future to making better automobiles at more affordable prices. You tap into the expertise of a bigger pool and with a strong strategic sourcing team, you get the parts cheaper. But technical specs, logistics definitions must be made and the quality assurance direction must be established.

If you buy a VW part, for example the spark plug, you will see that it is made in Japan by NGK, but the quality is in accordance with the QA system of VW group – Formel Q.

Formel Q is one bloody big quality assurance directive.

http://www.automotiveaudit.eu/en/offer/audits-suppliers/structure-audit

Within that are the systems, processes, product, FMEA, blah blah blah…

Properly manage them and you get good parts sourced from the suppliers that meet your specs. So you see that VW has generally no problem with the quality of their cars. Unless there’s an integrity problem like the recent emission scandal, the quality should be able to capture them. However, quality is not able to compensate the lack of technical sense with their engineering and design team.

Think of this… Engineering = law makers, Quality = Judiciary. If the law makers screw up, how good do you think the judiciary gets? If the law makers say murder is OK, the judiciary will have no power to incarcerate murderers.

So, good quality does not equate to no product problems. Quality enforces what the engineering and design team establish.

The reason why I avoided the dry clutch transmission wasn’t because there’s a problem with the clutch but there were questions posed on the transmission heat dissipating capacities. That itself was an uncertainty we cannot comprehend and that’s why I didn’t want to jump in and take the risk. I wasn’t for sure for certain there’s something wrong with the design, but the thought of heat dissipation question lingers and so I either wait and see or buy something else. I forked out more money and went for those with the wet clutch. And that trade off with the extra financial burden paid off. So, when I look back, it was not a VW quality issue, but rather more of a design issue with the transmission maker’s (not the clutch) engineering and design team.

You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

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I was previously from the technical support side. I was transferred to the supplier quality side 3 years ago.

Nowadays there are a lot of outsourcing. The Germans not excluded.

 

 

 

sorry a little drunk now....

 

 

There is a lot of horizontal sourcing nowadays... many supppliers who have to comply to the VDA 6 quality system and process

 

Sorry... let me continue tomorrow. I am really drunk now. I am now in China.

hi bro, i hope u feel better now.

 

if u don't mind to continue, i'm waiting to hear ur expert opinion..

nvm, i'm just reading thru ur posting..

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Yes, the DSG 7 dry clutch assembly DQ200 is outsourced to LuK. Borg Warner makes the DSG 6 wet clutch DQ250.

Outsourcing is OK. It is in fact the future to making better automobiles at more affordable prices. You tap into the expertise of a bigger pool and with a strong strategic sourcing team, you get the parts cheaper. But technical specs, logistics definitions must be made and the quality assurance direction must be established.

If you buy a VW part, for example the spark plug, you will see that it is made in Japan by NGK, but the quality is in accordance with the QA system of VW group – Formel Q.

Formel Q is one bloody big quality assurance directive.

http://www.automotiveaudit.eu/en/offer/audits-suppliers/structure-audit

Within that are the systems, processes, product, FMEA, blah blah blah…

Properly manage them and you get good parts sourced from the suppliers that meet your specs. So you see that VW has generally no problem with the quality of their cars. Unless there’s an integrity problem like the recent emission scandal, the quality should be able to capture them. However, quality is not able to compensate the lack of technical sense with their engineering and design team.

Think of this… Engineering = law makers, Quality = Judiciary. If the law makers screw up, how good do you think the judiciary gets? If the law makers say murder is OK, the judiciary will have no power to incarcerate murderers.

So, good quality does not equate to no product problems. Quality enforces what the engineering and design team establish.

The reason why I avoided the dry clutch transmission wasn’t because there’s a problem with the clutch but there were questions posed on the transmission heat dissipating capacities. That itself was an uncertainty we cannot comprehend and that’s why I didn’t want to jump in and take the risk. I wasn’t for sure for certain there’s something wrong with the design, but the thought of heat dissipation question lingers and so I either wait and see or buy something else. I forked out more money and went for those with the wet clutch. And that trade off with the extra financial burden paid off. So, when I look back, it was not a VW quality issue, but rather more of a design issue with the transmission maker’s (not the clutch) engineering and design team.

You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

then what about other issues like skipping of timin chain, piston cracking, eo consumption? it may not be as rampant as dsg issues but certainly worth lookin into. i'm not tryin to compare here but my current korean n prev jap rides has no such issues, though some of them r on timing belts.

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You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

Your comment(s) on TSI engine piston cracks and timing chain failures please?

Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

 

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Edited by Detach8
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Your comment(s) on TSI engine piston cracks and timing chain failures please?

 

 

I stand corrected. Thanks.

You need to measure by calculating the PPM to consider that a quality problem. Is that failure confined to a batch or is it genuinely a engineering design problem? Was there a mix up in parts during assembly? Was there a material compromise? We need to define that. So it is not fair to consider the engine piston crack a quality problem without the figures like PPM. As far as the evidence is concerned, there's nothing to establish it as a quality issue.
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Supercharged

You need to measure by calculating the PPM to consider that a quality problem. Is that failure confined to a batch or is it genuinely a engineering design problem? Was there a mix up in parts during assembly? Was there a material compromise? We need to define that. So it is not fair to consider the engine piston crack a quality problem without the figures like PPM. As far as the evidence is concerned, there's nothing to establish it as a quality issue.

 

So far from just talking to my limited group of friends and acquaintances (small sample size), I already heard these issues with their VWs:

 

- MU failure (Passat CC, Golf(s), Jetta)

- AC condensation leaking into cabin floor carpet (Passat CC, Touran)

- Piston crack (Audi A4, Golf)

- Outside door handle spoil (Golf)

- Brake servo spoil (Golf)

 

and others I hear and forget.

 

 

But I guess overall VW still very high quality.... BUY BUY!

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hi bro, i hope u feel better now.

 

if u don't mind to continue, i'm waiting to hear ur expert opinion..

 

nvm, i'm just reading thru ur posting..

Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

So far from just talking to my limited group of friends and acquaintances (small sample size), I already heard these issues with their VWs:

 

- MU failure (Passat CC, Golf(s), Jetta)

- AC condensation leaking into cabin floor carpet (Passat CC, Touran)

- Piston crack (Audi A4, Golf)

- Outside door handle spoil (Golf)

- Brake servo spoil (Golf)

 

and others I hear and forget.

 

 

But I guess overall VW still very high quality.... BUY BUY!

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

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Turbocharged

Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

If you wanna talk about sampling size, I guess those failure is seriuos enough even for a small market like sg... Talk about ppm, you know how many bread and butter car like altis, jazz, latio, sylphy, lancer, etc running on sg road and yet, seldom or I have not even heard before piston broken or need overhaul engine at such early years of ownership ...

 

, from the way you 'defence', your words no longer I trust fully... And yup, me too deal with automotives industry player but might no be as much as u but ...well ...

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the issue w general public / consumers is limited info, so can only read forums, surveys n hear fr owner frens / mech about car issues. car makers will not declare the "defects" of their cars. those in car sales  / service will not divulge much info.


so for laymen, genera guide will be based on above to judge, and i believe the direction still points to jap n korean makes for better reliability, since less is heard bout their issues.

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Thanks. Feeling better. I'm now drinking moderately at hengshan road.

True breakdown rate is not measured by sporadic personal anecdotes.

 

It is measured by true figures registered and investigated. Because many complaints from customers are actually not valid. For example... using wrong fuel, unauthorised tuning etc.

 

1 guy with door handle spoil compared to hundreds with door handle ok within warranty is hardly a quality problem. I just want to be fair.

 

yes and no.

 

because like it or not, customer perception is reality.

for perception drives decision.

 

you have at least some vested interest in VW  i gather.

Edited by EricChan
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yes and no.

 

because like it or not, customer perception is reality.

for perception drives decision.

 

you have at least some vested interest in VW i gather.

I don't have vested interest in vw.

I speak from facts.

Customer perception is merely perception and it doesn't represent the full fact. Managing the vehicle quality require facts and stats and not relying on perception. Because you will end up chasing after nothing as perception can't prove the facts. They are only opinions.

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If you wanna talk about sampling size, I guess those failure is seriuos enough even for a small market like sg... Talk about ppm, you know how many bread and butter car like altis, jazz, latio, sylphy, lancer, etc running on sg road and yet, seldom or I have not even heard before piston broken or need overhaul engine at such early years of ownership ...

 

, from the way you 'defence', your words no longer I trust fully... And yup, me too deal with automotives industry player but might no be as much as u but ...well ...

Again, you are speaking from perception not stats and facts. I am not defending anyone. I'm just merely stating the facts. Not hearing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Have you heard about the accelerator jammed issues about toyota in N.america? Heard about the wrong control arm fitted into some japanese brands? Heard about a process lapse leading to an escalation that blocked a global leader from supplying to PSA? Those were facts and stats not revealed.

 

Quality is conducted based on facts and stats. Not i hear this person that person heard 3 other friends and then they form the perception that there's a quality problem.

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