Gearbox issues; and problems at VW Service Centre

[Blackyv]

So just an update, as expected VW has confirmed it is MU failure. Have to wait a day or two for replacement. Happening ar 52k only, seems rather early...

 

 

that's like slightly less than 2yrs mileage for me....

[Munhua]

Not too bad for tsi whereby mu fail at 52k. Tdi half the dist due to higher torque plus emissions scandal, so can't even sell. Triple whammy.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Munhua

[Fuelsaver]

I failed to understand y german technology so many issues during this period where automobile technology is quite proven. Mayb cant afford time to keep r&d to resolve dsg, piston crack, timing chain hopping issues? Design n development in a pathetic state I think.

 

Being a conservative person, I should just stick to korean n jap tech for now.

 

Equally sad is to see potential buyers conditioned into thinking breaking down once in a while is the norm. Expectation moderated in exchange of personal gratification.

[Fels]

I failed to understand y german technology so many issues during this period where automobile technology is quite proven. Mayb cant afford time to keep r&d to resolve dsg, piston crack, timing chain hopping issues? Design n development in a pathetic state I think.

 

Being a conservative person, I should just stick to korean n jap tech for now.

 

Equally sad is to see potential buyers conditioned into thinking breaking down once in a while is the norm. Expectation moderated in exchange of personal gratification.

I am from the automotive industry. Do you want to hear my opinion?

[Fuelsaver]

I am from the automotive industry. Do you want to hear my opinion?

yes, please. it'd b much appreciated. and if it's too sensitive, do pm me.

[Ivan_06]

I failed to understand y german technology so many issues during this period where automobile technology is quite proven. Mayb cant afford time to keep r&d to resolve dsg, piston crack, timing chain hopping issues? Design n development in a pathetic state I think.

 

Being a conservative person, I should just stick to korean n jap tech for now.

 

Equally sad is to see potential buyers conditioned into thinking breaking down once in a while is the norm. Expectation moderated in exchange of personal gratification.

Paging for Forte3737

I am from the automotive industry. Do you want to hear my opinion?

I want. Thank you.

[Fuelsaver]

Paging for Forte3737

I want. Thank you.

aiyo bro, mai mark forte liao la.

 

not tired ah? just chit chat enuf la. come come i chat w u 

[Baal]

Yes, please.

[Fels]

yes, please. it'd b much appreciated. and if it's too sensitive, do pm me.

I was previously from the technical support side. I was transferred to the supplier quality side 3 years ago.

Nowadays there are a lot of outsourcing. The Germans not excluded.

 

 

 

sorry a little drunk now....

 

 

There is a lot of horizontal sourcing nowadays... many supppliers who have to comply to the VDA 6 quality system and process

 

Sorry... let me continue tomorrow. I am really drunk now. I am now in China.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Fels

[Cbx750p]

I am from the automotive industry. Do you want to hear my opinion?

Rest well....a sober view is definitely more reliable than an intoxicated opinion.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Cbx750p

[Detach8]

I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Detach8

[Yuan]

I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

 

Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

[Fuelsaver]

I think drunk people do not tell lies. He should continue...

 

I am not surprised with the horizontal outsourcing. There's just too many components in the car for a manufacturer to make themselves. It is more cost effective to buy, for example, a transmission from a manufacturer who has done all the R&D and invested in manufacturing, than to build from scratch. The problem with outsourcing is that the QC is at the mercy of the supplier. It's impossible for automakers to QC every component that comes in, hence the first thing they had to do is to create a standards to comply with... to ensure that the QC process is proper.

 

The only automaker that tries as little as possible to outsource is Mercedes (e.g. they still make their own transmission, the 7G-tronic) which is why it gets a little better at reliability at all the other brands.

 

Most commonly outsourced examples:

 

Transmission - ZF, GM, Aisin

Suspension - Sachs, Bilstein, etc.

 

Of course big names like Bosch, etc. are also well know to make many small parts for cars.

 

The 7DSG is also outsourced to Borgwarner. I think VW probably picked the wrong supplier here, but given that DQ200 had issues in Golf Mk6, they still use it in Golf Mk7 goes to show that either they refuse to acknowledge that the DQ200 has issues (which doesn't make sense to me) or that the issues aren't as widespread as is said to be.

 

I have two VW Golfs in my family -- an Mk6 and a brand new Mk7. Both (touch wood) have been trouble-free.

Bro, do u think the issue is w outsourcing or the initial r&d bugs not resolveD? Id like to think of vit as the latter.

[Fels]

Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

 

Yes, the DSG 7 dry clutch assembly DQ200 is outsourced to LuK. Borg Warner makes the DSG 6 wet clutch DQ250.

Outsourcing is OK. It is in fact the future to making better automobiles at more affordable prices. You tap into the expertise of a bigger pool and with a strong strategic sourcing team, you get the parts cheaper. But technical specs, logistics definitions must be made and the quality assurance direction must be established.

If you buy a VW part, for example the spark plug, you will see that it is made in Japan by NGK, but the quality is in accordance with the QA system of VW group – Formel Q.

Formel Q is one bloody big quality assurance directive.

http://www.automotiveaudit.eu/en/offer/audits-suppliers/structure-audit

Within that are the systems, processes, product, FMEA, blah blah blah…

Properly manage them and you get good parts sourced from the suppliers that meet your specs. So you see that VW has generally no problem with the quality of their cars. Unless there’s an integrity problem like the recent emission scandal, the quality should be able to capture them. However, quality is not able to compensate the lack of technical sense with their engineering and design team.

Think of this… Engineering = law makers, Quality = Judiciary. If the law makers screw up, how good do you think the judiciary gets? If the law makers say murder is OK, the judiciary will have no power to incarcerate murderers.

So, good quality does not equate to no product problems. Quality enforces what the engineering and design team establish.

The reason why I avoided the dry clutch transmission wasn’t because there’s a problem with the clutch but there were questions posed on the transmission heat dissipating capacities. That itself was an uncertainty we cannot comprehend and that’s why I didn’t want to jump in and take the risk. I wasn’t for sure for certain there’s something wrong with the design, but the thought of heat dissipation question lingers and so I either wait and see or buy something else. I forked out more money and went for those with the wet clutch. And that trade off with the extra financial burden paid off. So, when I look back, it was not a VW quality issue, but rather more of a design issue with the transmission maker’s (not the clutch) engineering and design team.

You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

[Fuelsaver]

I was previously from the technical support side. I was transferred to the supplier quality side 3 years ago.

Nowadays there are a lot of outsourcing. The Germans not excluded.

 

 

 

sorry a little drunk now....

 

 

There is a lot of horizontal sourcing nowadays... many supppliers who have to comply to the VDA 6 quality system and process

 

Sorry... let me continue tomorrow. I am really drunk now. I am now in China.

hi bro, i hope u feel better now.

 

if u don't mind to continue, i'm waiting to hear ur expert opinion..

nvm, i'm just reading thru ur posting..

[Fuelsaver]

Yes, the DSG 7 dry clutch assembly DQ200 is outsourced to LuK. Borg Warner makes the DSG 6 wet clutch DQ250.

Outsourcing is OK. It is in fact the future to making better automobiles at more affordable prices. You tap into the expertise of a bigger pool and with a strong strategic sourcing team, you get the parts cheaper. But technical specs, logistics definitions must be made and the quality assurance direction must be established.

If you buy a VW part, for example the spark plug, you will see that it is made in Japan by NGK, but the quality is in accordance with the QA system of VW group – Formel Q.

Formel Q is one bloody big quality assurance directive.

http://www.automotiveaudit.eu/en/offer/audits-suppliers/structure-audit

Within that are the systems, processes, product, FMEA, blah blah blah…

Properly manage them and you get good parts sourced from the suppliers that meet your specs. So you see that VW has generally no problem with the quality of their cars. Unless there’s an integrity problem like the recent emission scandal, the quality should be able to capture them. However, quality is not able to compensate the lack of technical sense with their engineering and design team.

Think of this… Engineering = law makers, Quality = Judiciary. If the law makers screw up, how good do you think the judiciary gets? If the law makers say murder is OK, the judiciary will have no power to incarcerate murderers.

So, good quality does not equate to no product problems. Quality enforces what the engineering and design team establish.

The reason why I avoided the dry clutch transmission wasn’t because there’s a problem with the clutch but there were questions posed on the transmission heat dissipating capacities. That itself was an uncertainty we cannot comprehend and that’s why I didn’t want to jump in and take the risk. I wasn’t for sure for certain there’s something wrong with the design, but the thought of heat dissipation question lingers and so I either wait and see or buy something else. I forked out more money and went for those with the wet clutch. And that trade off with the extra financial burden paid off. So, when I look back, it was not a VW quality issue, but rather more of a design issue with the transmission maker’s (not the clutch) engineering and design team.

You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

then what about other issues like skipping of timin chain, piston cracking, eo consumption? it may not be as rampant as dsg issues but certainly worth lookin into. i'm not tryin to compare here but my current korean n prev jap rides has no such issues, though some of them r on timing belts.

[Detach8]

You might want to take note that in places with stick shift manual transmission, VW enjoys a reputation of reliability. The rest of their parts are utterly brilliant.  

Your comment(s) on TSI engine piston cracks and timing chain failures please?

Er, 7 speed DSG is not outsourced to Borg Warner but it is another company.

 

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Detach8

[Fels]

Your comment(s) on TSI engine piston cracks and timing chain failures please?

 

 

I stand corrected. Thanks.

You need to measure by calculating the PPM to consider that a quality problem. Is that failure confined to a batch or is it genuinely a engineering design problem? Was there a mix up in parts during assembly? Was there a material compromise? We need to define that. So it is not fair to consider the engine piston crack a quality problem without the figures like PPM. As far as the evidence is concerned, there's nothing to establish it as a quality issue.