DIY HHO Dry Cell for car

[Stanchiam]

I am planning to DIY a HHO Dry Cell kit and install it into my car.

Below are some details of what I am planning and what it is about.

It is a device to generate hydrogen and oxygen from water, then pump into engine and burn together with fuel and thereby achieving better mileage (20-50% more)

 

The design I will be using will be as below

Will be sourcing for parts and build one, with Dual Edge MAP Sensor Enhancer to fine tune the car so that it will tell the computer to use less fuel by adjusting the voltage signal sent from a voltage based MAP or MAF sensor to the computer/ecu

 

estimate cost will be less than $200 for all including parts not mentioned here.

 

Without MAP Sensor Enhancer, the car ecu will adapt and the HHO on demand systems in vehicles do not see great increases in miles per gallon.

The reason for this is simply because the generator produces 2 parts hydrogen to one part oxygen, the extra oxygen is being detected by your MAP, manifold absolute pressure, and or MAF, mass airflow sensors, telling your computer to pump more fuel to compensate.

In summary, HHO will increase the efficiency and mileage but the ecu will override it, so to achieve result, need to trick the ecu.

Will be updating in 1 month time, now in planning and sourcing phase.

 

*Those who want to say it is useless etc etc, don't need to post here, I only believe in practical and not just talk or what u think.

People say the sound deaderner I buy from china will melt, it did not. Some say flying kite is dangerous as strong wind will blow u into outer space....lol

Ya, all talk and what u think or suspect and no action, better keep it to yourself

 

Information:

HHO Dry Cell vs Wet Cell

 

So, what's all the controversy about? Why is the HHO Dry Cell a better design?

 

Here are 2 main reasons:

 

1. When the edges of the plates of a hho generator are submerged in the water/catalyst bath a great deal of the electrical current passes through the edges of the plates. This current is largely wasted in terms of HHO production. When the edges are outside of the bath, as with the hho dry cell, all of the current is forced to travel directly to the faces of the plates. Therefore all of the current supplied to the hho generator is utilized in efficiently making HHO gas.

This is the main reason the hho dry cell design has become so popular.

 

2. The electrolyte bath attacks and will eventually destroy the electrical connections if they are submerged. With the hho dry cell design they are outside of the water/catalyst solution which is stored in a separate reservoir and recirculated by the hho dry cell, this help in producing more hho gas and less heat (steam)

 

The plates of HHO dry cells will be made of 316 stainless steel. This has been found to have the best properties of resistance to attack from the process of electrolysis. However, mounting hardware and wire and cable are very difficult to find in 316 grade and are very costly to use.

Therefore copper cable is usually used by Hydrogen on Demand installers when installing their hho generators. And a lower grade of stainless steel nuts and bolts are used by hho generator builders for assembly and when these are submerged in the electrolyte, they rapidly get eaten away.

 

With the HHO dry cell design, all of these connections are outside of the electrolyte so this isn't an issue.

 

Why is it that a hho dry cell design produces more hho gas?

 

Because it is efficient, there is not a lot of wasted spaced and electrolyte solution that is not being used and charged with current. The very small volume of electrolyte solution that enters the hho dry cell is subjected to electrical current and able to react and create hho, then exit the hho dry cell generator and recirculate.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Stanchiam

[Mona-vie]

Cool design!!

 

Just a slight correction. MAF/MAP sensors are not capable of detecting oxygen. They only detect air as a whole, not the O2 component.

 

For that, it will be the O2 sensor that will do the job of detecting O2.

[Anyname]

Very interesting, from your design it appears the cathode and anode share the same chamber hence you cannot seggragate the gases produced. Decresing the sensitivity via a variable rheostat might be possible solution.

 

I am curious what electrolyte you will be using? Water alone is a poor conductor. Avoid using sodium chloride, as minor chlorine gas would be produced if the electropotential of the electrode used is more reductive compared to chloride ion not to mention the corrosion problem alone.

Sodium bicarbonate (pH 7-8) might be a potential candidate. There might be carbonate deposition with prolong use, which can be cleared with vinegar or citric acid.

 

By the way what is the contruction of the electrolyte

 

Have fun

[Stanchiam]

Cool design!!

 

Just a slight correction. MAF/MAP sensors are not capable of detecting oxygen. They only detect air as a whole, not the O2 component.

 

For that, it will be the O2 sensor that will do the job of detecting O2.

 

yap, MAF/MAP sensors for air flow, efie is needed to attached to the exhaust sensor wire to adjust the voltage/current (cannot remember which) so that it can fool the ecu.

either one can do the job to fool the ecu so that u can get the result from the set up.

 

some bros pm me regarding this project, if u r interest, can contact me so when buying material, i can buy extra

 

[Stanchiam]

Very interesting, from your design it appears the cathode and anode share the same chamber hence you cannot seggragate the gases produced. Decresing the sensitivity via a variable rheostat might be possible solution.

 

I am curious what electrolyte you will be using? Water alone is a poor conductor. Avoid using sodium chloride, as minor chlorine gas would be produced if the electropotential of the electrode used is more reductive compared to chloride ion not to mention the corrosion problem alone.

Sodium bicarbonate (pH 7-8) might be a potential candidate. There might be carbonate deposition with prolong use, which can be cleared with vinegar or citric acid.

 

By the way what is the contruction of the electrolyte

 

Have fun

 

i will be using KOH/NaOH as industrial hydrogen manufacture uses it, KOH is the best.

the design i will use include additional bubbler to "clean" out any impurities and to prevent backflow

if any bros here good in soldering and electronics, can help to get parts to make the MAP Sensor Enhancer/EFIE

I will provide the information on the parts needed for the MAP Sensor Enhancer/EFIE

 

it will be interesting to have a few bros joining me, maybe we can be the pioneer, if result is really good, then we can start to spread this

Edited May 31, 2011 by Stanchiam

[Yc86]

Just wondering if you have any rough calculations for this? sounds like your background is in chemistry.

 

what is the rate of production of HH and O gases?

 

how does it compare to the rate of air consumption by the engine?

 

what is the power consumption of this device?

 

How are you planning to store the HH?

 

quite curious abt these points.. ;)

[Chemluber]

Please only use KOH as electrolyte.. its not readily available though...

 

Can PM me if you want to see my setup. Glad to share :)

[Chemluber]

Just sharing (May not be most correct, if wrong someone pls correct)

 

1) Rate of production is roughly engine cap.. ie 1.6L car, 1.5-1.6LPM etc

 

2) Do not think need to match the cfm or psi of intake, can use secondary intake for low rpm (ie throttle manifold vacuum)

 

3) Power consumption is based on how much output you wan..seems to be 1A per 0.1LPM..havent really measured my output.

 

4) No storage..most generators are designed to work only upon ignition on, cut off when ignition off.. what is produced is either drawn into the manifold(low rpm) or sucked in via intake(higher rpm)

 

Still quite novice in HHO but its hours of good fun! :) The joy of seeing the HHO jet out of the piping is pretty satisfying!

[Stanchiam]

Just sharing (May not be most correct, if wrong someone pls correct)

 

1) Rate of production is roughly engine cap.. ie 1.6L car, 1.5-1.6LPM etc

 

2) Do not think need to match the cfm or psi of intake, can use secondary intake for low rpm (ie throttle manifold vacuum)

 

3) Power consumption is based on how much output you wan..seems to be 1A per 0.1LPM..havent really measured my output.

 

4) No storage..most generators are designed to work only upon ignition on, cut off when ignition off.. what is produced is either drawn into the manifold(low rpm) or sucked in via intake(higher rpm)

 

Still quite novice in HHO but its hours of good fun! :) The joy of seeing the HHO jet out of the piping is pretty satisfying!

 

the design i am going to make produce about 2LPM(mmw is around 6-8 depending on config) around 18.5A and 13.5V and it does not depend on your car, it depends on the number of plates and the number of neutral plates.

 

 

HHO cell % efficiency calculator

The basics...

 

Example

Volts x amps = watts

Litres of gas per minute produced divided by watts

14 volts x 12 amps = 168 watts

1 litre 1000cc divided by 168 watts = 5.95 mmw

[Gt2929]

You guy don't speak English ? I cannot understand a single thing, so damn deep!!!

[Stanchiam]

You guy don't speak English ? I cannot understand a single thing, so damn deep!!!

 

lol...

its beyond english...kekeke

[Chemluber]

Its okay! I dun understand myself 99% of the time also! :)

 

Btw some terminologies used:

LPM: Litres Per Minute

KOH: Potassium Hydroxide

NaOH: Sodium Hydroxide

MMW: Milimetres per Minute per Watt

 

 

Still pretty novice in HHO field..any more HHO experts around?

 

[Kurty]

i have a friend who used to install this HHO in his kelisa.

proclaim not bad.

 

himself is also a DIY Guru, probably you 2 can tag and work together.

 

overall, it's an interesting project. worth the try

[Kurty]

interesting..

 

why no one selling this?

[Stanchiam]

interesting..

 

why no one selling this?

have but few and its very expensive

what i heard is about 1k

i diy cost less than 200

[SimonTan]

http://changingpower.net/articles/hho-not-...e-not-hydrogen/

 

 

The world is funn of conventional physics with the formular.

But HHO is about Zero-point energy....background energy all around the universe.

 

 

I believe in HHO. Hey TS is you need help....I can offer my mechanical skills and enthusiasm.

I know of a local company selling very small cluster HHO liquid catalyst, that is used in boosting coal pyrolysis and cracking of crude oil. This small water molecule clusters will allow the breakdown and liberating of H2 and O2 during the chemical reactions that requires water as a carrier.

The liquid will also boost the octane level of fuel in petrol car, due to it's catalyst effect on hydrocarbons chains.

 

Personally I have tried it, and it works. But the free sample is only 100ml. Subsequent 100ml cost $10, so I did not bother. This HHO is being applied to coal in boilers to increase their burning efficiency in many industries!

Maybe you can use this HHO solution to generate your O2gas easily.

They have analyzed the HHO water molecules using the NMR, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, and the water clusters are very small and able to get into the hydrocarbons chains to catalyst and cause super efficient cracking chemical reaction.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Stanchiam]

http://changingpower.net/articles/hho-not-...e-not-hydrogen/

 

 

The world is funn of conventional physics with the formular.

But HHO is about Zero-point energy....background energy all around the universe.

 

 

I believe in HHO. Hey TS is you need help....I can offer my mechanical skills and enthusiasm.

I know of a local company selling very small cluster HHO liquid catalyst, that is used in boosting coal pyrolysis and cracking of crude oil. This small water molecule clusters will allow the breakdown and liberating of H2 and O2 during the chemical reactions that requires water as a carrier.

The liquid will also boost the octane level of fuel in petrol car, due to it's catalyst effect on hydrocarbons chains.

 

Personally I have tried it, and it works. But the free sample is only 100ml. Subsequent 100ml cost $10, so I did not bother. This HHO is being applied to coal in boilers to increase their burning efficiency in many industries!

Maybe you can use this HHO solution to generate your O2gas easily.

They have analyzed the HHO water molecules using the NMR, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, and the water clusters are very small and able to get into the hydrocarbons chains to catalyst and cause super efficient cracking chemical reaction.

 

Good luck.

 

thanks for your offer to help. will contact u if i stumble in the project and need some help.

i will be using koh which is readily available for me in this project

 

 

[Yc86]

I see... was just curious, cuz a 1600cc engine consumes about 2.5kg of air per min at a rpm of about 2600 (typical highway rpm).

 

at the rate of 2L per min of HH, according to TS the actual mass of Hydrogen gas produced is ~0.00018kg/min, which contributes to about 0.007% of the intake air.

 

the power consumption of the device of 18.5A @ 13.5V, which is about 0.25kW, assuming the alternator has spare charge left after the air-con, lights, radio, etc.

 

A 1600cc car typically has about 100hp or ard 75kW. But at cruise setting, the car might be only using & producing about 15 to 20kW at constant speed (inc air-con, drivetrain losses, etc).

 

Hydrogen has a specific energy of about 145MJ/kg which means the extra energy from the hydrogen would thus be ard 7.9kJ. since a petrol engine is only about 25% efficient (esp at cruising where pumping loses dominate), we are only getting barely 2kJ of energy per min, or about 0.033kW extra from it.

 

If the above is correct... 0.25kW power consumption by the device, which is about 1.25-1.67% increase over the usual power requirements, for a 0.16-0.22% gain in energy from the hydrogen to offset..?

 

doesn't sound like a very fair deal unless i have overlooked something.