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How problematic is VW's 7 speed DSG?

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Supersonic

I hope you are not equating enthusiast with supercar (ferrari/lambo level) drivers. 

 

I see super car drivers as car enthusiast with a very deep pocket and with a yearly mileage of 100 km....their transmission is not expected to do the 20,000km/year average mileage. So the type of transmission choice very different. Same like those short life-span F1/Rally car engines and transmissions.

 

I belong to the masses where my car has to multitask to bring me to and fro work, taxi for my family, luggage hauler on long trips, plus providing the occasional driving fun when all alone.

 

 

 

which is precisely what some ppl have done, buying cars fitted with an F1 type gearbox, which is a manual gearbox, giving the feel of a manual shift, without the need for using the left foot. 

 

it's funny ppl simply think of a manual gearbox as using the left foot and make comments without understanding the technical underpinnings of it. 

 

yr right. auto boxes are auto boxes. but if u define it as simply one that eliminates using the left foot, then from an engineering perspective, yr wrong. 

 

thus it's hardly surprising many like u enjoy the zf auto more. it's fast n smooth. does it have the feeling? well, the fact no supercar fits it in explains it. 


for practical purposes to suit the masses. not aware of supercars switching though

 

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5th Gear

with my experience with DSG, will anyone even consider a DSG next?

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Supersonic

It depends whether if it's a wet clutch design with creep function and whether it comes with an oil cooler to reduce the overheating issue.

 

The point of having a dsg is to shift faster dan the planetary gb or cvt gb or even the manual gb. But because of overheating issue the user cannot launch it as often as he/she likes, can't use it to creep in traffic jams or on a ramp/slope....dan what's the point of having it? I should just get a car with the latest 8sp planetary gb, less issue to deal with plus I don't have spend more to replace what clutch pack.

 

It's much like the thread that relates to the unnecessary function/gadgets in the car which will cost the car owner more to maintain and repair. With so much of the benefits that they market the dsg but in order not to damage it you cannot make full use of the benefits. It kinda defeats the purpose.

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6th Gear

with my experience with DSG, will anyone even consider a DSG next?

Passat, superb, A4 all using DSG. So my choice a bit limited

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4th Gear

Get giulia best . 8speed auto . No DSG worries ever

 

 

Just worry about everything else

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3rd Gear

I was told that after brining in the Arteon, Volkswagen decide not to continue to carry this model in the near future. Thats mean no more support and value of the car will drop?

 

Thinking of getting it.

 

Any advise?

If u really like thr Arteon just get it, vw bring in they need to support it for at least 10yrs.

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5th Gear

Passat, superb, A4 all using DSG. So my choice a bit limited

 c class..

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Supersonic

Actually ...looking at the list of vehicles ...you seem to be shopping within the VW /Audi/Skoda umbrella....no wonder cannot get out of the DSG clutches (pun intended)  :D

 

Look further afield and you will have more transmission options....3 series/jag XE/C class etc [;)]

 

Passat, superb, A4 all using DSG. So my choice a bit limited

 

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5th Gear

which is precisely what some ppl have done, buying cars fitted with an F1 type gearbox, which is a manual gearbox, giving the feel of a manual shift, without the need for using the left foot. 

 

it's funny ppl simply think of a manual gearbox as using the left foot and make comments without understanding the technical underpinnings of it. 

 

yr right. auto boxes are auto boxes. but if u define it as simply one that eliminates using the left foot, then from an engineering perspective, yr wrong. 

 

thus it's hardly surprising many like u enjoy the zf auto more. it's fast n smooth. does it have the feeling? well, the fact no supercar fits it in explains it. 

for practical purposes to suit the masses. not aware of supercars switching though

 

:D I am not sure if you even know what you are talking about.

 

Maybe go and read up about the various (super)car manufacturers switching to the ZF8, including BMW M5, Aston Martin Vanquish, Alfa Guilia QV, etc.

 

That's because the torque converter in a fluid coupled automatic can take much more torque than a clutch, and modern turbocharged engines make massive torque.

 

I don't deny the DSG is good for what it is during its, but you cannot deny the ZF8 came about and really changed the game.

 

That's why I keep different cars... one with a ZF8, one with a traditional 6 speed manual. Because when you talk about the feel and engagement, nothing beats having to shift on your own - it's the driving engagement as a whole, not just how it shifts and bangs into a gear. We don't drag race our cars every day. My average speed in SG is 30kph.

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Supersonic

:D I am not sure if you even know what you are talking about.

 

Maybe go and read up about the various (super)car manufacturers switching to the ZF8, including BMW M5, Aston Martin Vanquish, Alfa Guilia QV, etc.

 

That's because the torque converter in a fluid coupled automatic can take much more torque than a clutch, and modern turbocharged engines make massive torque.

 

I don't deny the DSG is good for what it is during its, but you cannot deny the ZF8 came about and really changed the game.

 

That's why I keep different cars... one with a ZF8, one with a traditional 6 speed manual. Because when you talk about the feel and engagement, nothing beats having to shift on your own - it's the driving engagement as a whole, not just how it shifts and bangs into a gear. We don't drag race our cars every day. My average speed in SG is 30kph.

I think you don't know what he says.

 

He is talking about Semi auto transmission. Those still in F1 which has that jerky feel,

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5th Gear

One more thing... how many street legal cars actually have a sequential gearbox "like the F1"?  :D


I think you don't know what he says.

He is talking about Semi auto transmission. Those still in F1 which has that jerky feel,

 

F1 cars... sequential transmission... does not require clutch dip to switch gears. It's a sequential transmission for that reason. The only time the clutch is used, is to launch the car in gear 1 and it is computer controlled.

 

F1 is a race car.. it's not meant to be smooth. But you can have a sequential manual (like in a motorbike) that works relatively smoothly.

 

But that's not the point. What exactly is the "F1" technology that is in modern street car that he is talking about when referring to transmission and driving feel? 

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Supersonic

One more thing... how many street legal cars actually have a sequential gearbox "like the F1"? :D

 

 

F1 cars... sequential transmission... does not require clutch dip to switch gears. It's a sequential transmission for that reason. The only time the clutch is used, is to launch the car in gear 1 and it is computer controlled.

 

F1 is a race car.. it's not meant to be smooth. But you can have a sequential manual (like in a motorbike) that works relatively smoothly.

 

But that's not the point. What exactly is the "F1" technology that is in modern street car that he is talking about when referring to transmission and driving feel?

You see. You don't get it.

 

I am not even talking about sequential manual.

 

I am talking about automated clutch manual transmission.

 

Alfa selespeed.

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5th Gear

You see. You don't get it.

 

I am not even talking about sequential manual.

 

I am talking about automated clutch manual transmission.

 

Alfa selespeed.

 

Selespeed is not a, and I quote, "F1 type gearbox".

 

It's a slow, jerky, single clutch transmission.

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Supersonic

:D I am not sure if you even know what you are talking about.

 

Maybe go and read up about the various (super)car manufacturers switching to the ZF8, including BMW M5, Aston Martin Vanquish, Alfa Guilia QV, etc.

 

That's because the torque converter in a fluid coupled automatic can take much more torque than a clutch, and modern turbocharged engines make massive torque.

 

I don't deny the DSG is good for what it is during its, but you cannot deny the ZF8 came about and really changed the game.

 

That's why I keep different cars... one with a ZF8, one with a traditional 6 speed manual. Because when you talk about the feel and engagement, nothing beats having to shift on your own - it's the driving engagement as a whole, not just how it shifts and bangs into a gear. We don't drag race our cars every day. My average speed in SG is 30kph.

 

Manual rocks! :wub:

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Supersonic

Selespeed is not a, and I quote, "F1 type gearbox".

 

It's a slow, jerky, single clutch transmission.

Most importantly, it is an automated clutch manual transmission.

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5th Gear (edited)

Most importantly, it is an automated clutch manual transmission.

 

Felipe said, people have been "... buying cars fitted with an F1 type gearbox". And my question was: What car on the street has a manual sequential and automated single clutch transmission which is the transmission found in F1 cars? Not sure if you understood what I was saying in the first place. Anyway...

 

Taking your example specifically... I don't see how an automated manual like the Selespeed will make my driving enjoyment better than say the ZF8 or even my old skool manual car. It is slow and jerky. And I really mean slow, i.e. it takes like a second to react to my shift commands. I think I shift faster and better on my fully manual transmission myself. I've only ever driven a Selespeed in a Fiat, though.

 

The VW DSG is nice in that aspect... in that it shifts quickly, smoothly, rather seamlessly and then also behaves like a conventional auto in that it creeps once the brake is let off. I do like how it shifts, I just don't like that I have to constantly manage my driving habits (more than usual) to care for the transmission. On top of that when my wife drives it she does not really know how to handle the DSG because she has only ever driven automatic cars all her life, so after I switched her car (the VW Golf DSG is the wife's car) to a 116d equipped with ZF8, I personally enjoy the ride as a passenger more.

 

To quote, once again, our friend Felipe: "giving the feel of a manual shift" is really subjective. I guess most people want that direct, locked-in feeling. To me, the ZF8 is very close, in that it is still a fixed ratio gear (not CVT), so the "feeling of manual shift" is there - especially in cars that have the ZF8 tuned for sporty response, the shift is really fast and instant, and it has a TC lockup at every gear so the feeling is very direct.

 

Most -- and almost all -- manual transmissions (automated or not) these days are affected by how the engine DME responds during a shift. The DME does a myriad of things to allow smooth shifts to happen, such as rev-matching and retarding ignition timing (or reducing engine output) during the (momentary) shift period for a smooth transition. So, once again, everything is computer controlled... what exactly does "feel" mean again? To each his own.

 

Have a good day all!

Edited by Detach8
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5th Gear

don't buy a DSG, skip the audi umbrella, not worth your time

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Supersonic (edited)

Felipe said, people have been "... buying cars fitted with an F1 type gearbox". And my question was: What car on the street has a manual sequential and automated single clutch transmission which is the transmission found in F1 cars? Not sure if you understood what I was saying in the first place. Anyway...

 

Taking your example specifically... I don't see how an automated manual like the Selespeed will make my driving enjoyment better than say the ZF8 or even my old skool manual car. It is slow and jerky. And I really mean slow, i.e. it takes like a second to react to my shift commands. I think I shift faster and better on my fully manual transmission myself. I've only ever driven a Selespeed in a Fiat, though.

 

The VW DSG is nice in that aspect... in that it shifts quickly, smoothly, rather seamlessly and then also behaves like a conventional auto in that it creeps once the brake is let off. I do like how it shifts, I just don't like that I have to constantly manage my driving habits (more than usual) to care for the transmission. On top of that when my wife drives it she does not really know how to handle the DSG because she has only ever driven automatic cars all her life, so after I switched her car (the VW Golf DSG is the wife's car) to a 116d equipped with ZF8, I personally enjoy the ride as a passenger more.

 

To quote, once again, our friend Felipe: "giving the feel of a manual shift" is really subjective. I guess most people want that direct, locked-in feeling. To me, the ZF8 is very close, in that it is still a fixed ratio gear (not CVT), so the "feeling of manual shift" is there - especially in cars that have the ZF8 tuned for sporty response, the shift is really fast and instant, and it has a TC lockup at every gear so the feeling is very direct.

 

Most -- and almost all -- manual transmissions (automated or not) these days are affected by how the engine DME responds during a shift. The DME does a myriad of things to allow smooth shifts to happen, such as rev-matching and retarding ignition timing (or reducing engine output) during the (momentary) shift period for a smooth transition. So, once again, everything is computer controlled... what exactly does "feel" mean again? To each his own.

 

Have a good day all!

That's where you don't understand what he wrote.

 

To him, selespeed is F1 style type GB.

 

To him, ZF 8speed or DSG is boring or emotionless. Too smooth. He needs the jerk.

 

P.s. I know all the stuff u wrote.

Edited by Davidtch
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