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Kar_lover

How problematic is VW's 7 speed DSG?

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5th Gear

That's where you don't understand what he wrote.

 

To him, selespeed is F1 style type GB.

 

To him, ZF 8speed or DSG is boring or emotionless. Too smooth. He needs the jerk.

:blink: LOL I almost puke out my teh peng

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Supersonic

:blink: LOL I almost puke out my teh peng

I have never drove selespeed. Can't comment.

 

I drove Toyota MRS SMT for 2 yrs. It's not that jerky le

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Supersonic

I have never drove selespeed. Can't comment.

 

I drove Toyota MRS SMT for 2 yrs. It's not that jerky le

 

MRS auto has a seq gb?

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Supersonic (edited)

MRS auto has a seq gb?

MRS has MT and SMT

 

Auto clutch manual transmission

Edited by Davidtch

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Supersonic

MRS has MT or SMT.

 

I'm aware of the MT model. Not too sure abt the auto. Nice to drive?

 

I've driven the MT and AT Subbie BRZ. The torque converter auto one sux though. No feel.

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Supersonic

I'm aware of the MT model. Not too sure abt the auto. Nice to drive?

 

I've driven the MT and AT Subbie BRZ. The torque converter auto one sux though. No feel.

It is NOT auto.

 

It is SMT. You need to shift gear without engaging clutch.

 

It is nice to drive. For hill start, it is more challenging than MT.

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Supersonic (edited)

It is NOT auto.

 

It is SMT. You need to shift gear without engaging clutch.

 

It is nice to drive. For hill start, it is more challenging than MT.

 

Its a mid engine RWD. The MRS is not easy to handle especially high speed corning. My friend had a manual one b4. Didn't hv chance to test drive it though. To me, any car with 2 pedals is auto. :D

Edited by Aaronlkl
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Supersonic

Its a mid engine RWD. The MRS is not easy to handle especially high speed corning. My friend had a manual one b4. Didn't hv chance to test drive it though. To me, any car with 2 pedals is auto. :D

 

It is a very easy to control car.  It is not tail happy at all.

 

Caveat: mine with heavily modded with wide body kit and coilovers.

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3rd Gear

:D I am not sure if you even know what you are talking about.

 

Maybe go and read up about the various (super)car manufacturers switching to the ZF8, including BMW M5, Aston Martin Vanquish, Alfa Guilia QV, etc.

 

That's because the torque converter in a fluid coupled automatic can take much more torque than a clutch, and modern turbocharged engines make massive torque.

 

I don't deny the DSG is good for what it is during its, but you cannot deny the ZF8 came about and really changed the game.

 

That's why I keep different cars... one with a ZF8, one with a traditional 6 speed manual. Because when you talk about the feel and engagement, nothing beats having to shift on your own - it's the driving engagement as a whole, not just how it shifts and bangs into a gear. We don't drag race our cars every day. My average speed in SG is 30kph.

All Ferraris use a dual clutch. I believe lambo as well. The 911s too. then we have the pinnacle of motorsports, F1, a single clutch. 

 

So if one were to argue the automatic can handle much more torque, it's probably true but ultimately if u want speed, it's bhp. If u want driver engagement, of cos a full 3 pedal manual is best but then again, choices are very limited these days. and even if there were, the cars are not to everyone's liking. 

 

so in the end, there's a bit of a compromise somewhere and having driven all these transmissions, the single clutch system appeals to me most. to me, how it bangs into gear comes closest to the full manual shifting using the clutch pedal. It may not be for u but then again, different strokes for different folks.

 

lastly, of cos i know wat im talking about. i wonder though if u do know wat yr talking about since u initially mentioned the F1 gearbox is different. No. It's the same as a manual gearbox. It's a single dry clutch. It's the same as a manual gearbox fitted into a Type R for eg and slightly different from a dual clutch due to the add on clutch. And definitely different than a normal autogear like the ZF.  

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3rd Gear

Selespeed is not a, and I quote, "F1 type gearbox".

 

It's a slow, jerky, single clutch transmission.

 

The selespeed is derived from the Ferrari 355 to 430 models. The Ferrarris obviously being supercars, will have thicker clutch plates and ECU tat shifts even faster. As they're supercars, it's impossible for Alfa to simply fit these in and sell at reasonable prices, not to mention the quick clutch wear if the ecu shifts gears too rapidly like the supercars. 

 

but the way it operates, including some parts like the pump for the actuators are exactly the same. Don't believe? search ebay for Alfa selespeed pump, u find it being used in those Ferrari models. 

 

if u find the selespeed slow and jerky, u will find similar complaints, at least for the jerky part in Maserati and Ferrari. Don't believe? Youtube got ppl drive and whine. 

 

This is y the F1 type of gearbox could not take off with the masses, and came the dual clutch, which is also having issues, and then now all back to normal auto. Ultimately, mainstream car manufacturers go for volume so tats y. 

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3rd Gear

Felipe said, people have been "... buying cars fitted with an F1 type gearbox". And my question was: What car on the street has a manual sequential and automated single clutch transmission which is the transmission found in F1 cars? Not sure if you understood what I was saying in the first place. Anyway...

 

Taking your example specifically... I don't see how an automated manual like the Selespeed will make my driving enjoyment better than say the ZF8 or even my old skool manual car. It is slow and jerky. And I really mean slow, i.e. it takes like a second to react to my shift commands. I think I shift faster and better on my fully manual transmission myself. I've only ever driven a Selespeed in a Fiat, though.

 

The VW DSG is nice in that aspect... in that it shifts quickly, smoothly, rather seamlessly and then also behaves like a conventional auto in that it creeps once the brake is let off. I do like how it shifts, I just don't like that I have to constantly manage my driving habits (more than usual) to care for the transmission. On top of that when my wife drives it she does not really know how to handle the DSG because she has only ever driven automatic cars all her life, so after I switched her car (the VW Golf DSG is the wife's car) to a 116d equipped with ZF8, I personally enjoy the ride as a passenger more.

 

To quote, once again, our friend Felipe: "giving the feel of a manual shift" is really subjective. I guess most people want that direct, locked-in feeling. To me, the ZF8 is very close, in that it is still a fixed ratio gear (not CVT), so the "feeling of manual shift" is there - especially in cars that have the ZF8 tuned for sporty response, the shift is really fast and instant, and it has a TC lockup at every gear so the feeling is very direct.

 

Most -- and almost all -- manual transmissions (automated or not) these days are affected by how the engine DME responds during a shift. The DME does a myriad of things to allow smooth shifts to happen, such as rev-matching and retarding ignition timing (or reducing engine output) during the (momentary) shift period for a smooth transition. So, once again, everything is computer controlled... what exactly does "feel" mean again? To each his own.

 

Have a good day all!

 

the selespeed will shift faster once the revs go up. sorry, yr human hand will lose. of cos in slow traffic, it's not meant to push through the gears. it also does throttle blip to rev match. old news to be honest. 

 

The dsg once in gear gets the car going, unlike selespeed, where u need to step on the throttle. But this may explain the high clutch wear for dsg as the car will always inch forward, and in our traffic, the wear will be even higher. it's not uncommon, even for current Alfa dry dual clutches, to experience worn clutches near 50k, whereas selespeed seem to handle the single clutch life longer, albeit with a more jerky experience. 

 

i guess i'll just have to illustrate with these two videos (watch the first minute or so). Watch the Alfa ZF gearbox. The driver shifts, it's seamless,. Watch the f360. the driver shifts, the jerk happens, like how it happens in a manual car or in an F1 car. As David said, it's the jerk. Thats the feeling im talking about.

 

 

 

 

Its a mid engine RWD. The MRS is not easy to handle especially high speed corning. My friend had a manual one b4. Didn't hv chance to test drive it though. To me, any car with 2 pedals is auto. :D

ok, any property tat has a swimming pool and gym is a condo. something like tat. 

:blink: LOL I almost puke out my teh peng

i guess u will also puke in an f355, 360 and 430 then

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Supersonic

 

ok, any property tat has a swimming pool and gym is a condo. something like tat. 

i guess u will also puke in an f355, 360 and 430 then

 

Haha. its just my personal view. Pls dun take it too seriously. :D

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3rd Gear

Haha. its just my personal view. Pls dun take it too seriously. :D

of cos not. its yr personal view, which doesn't really have any factual basis

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5th Gear

the selespeed will shift faster once the revs go up. sorry, yr human hand will lose. of cos in slow traffic, it's not meant to push through the gears. it also does throttle blip to rev match. old news to be honest. 

 

The dsg once in gear gets the car going, unlike selespeed, where u need to step on the throttle. But this may explain the high clutch wear for dsg as the car will always inch forward, and in our traffic, the wear will be even higher. it's not uncommon, even for current Alfa dry dual clutches, to experience worn clutches near 50k, whereas selespeed seem to handle the single clutch life longer, albeit with a more jerky experience. 

 

i guess i'll just have to illustrate with these two videos (watch the first minute or so). Watch the Alfa ZF gearbox. The driver shifts, it's seamless,. Watch the f360. the driver shifts, the jerk happens, like how it happens in a manual car or in an F1 car. As David said, it's the jerk. Thats the feeling im talking about.

 

 

 

 

ok, any property tat has a swimming pool and gym is a condo. something like tat. 

i guess u will also puke in an f355, 360 and 430 then

 

AFAIK F1 sequential gearbox is not the same as a regular synchro-based manual gearbox. Please fact check.

 

And F1 does not want jerks in the gear shift.  :a-bang:  Goodness me. In fact they are trying to make them smooth. Do you know what happens if an F1 car with 700hp jerks through a shift around a corner at speed?  :a-rip:

 

The story from my friend who drives the Fiat with a Selespeed is different from your description... yes the clutch seems to last (so did my 9 year old VW DSG?), but the actuator for the clutch does not last and is a well known problem/failure.

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Twincharged

the sequential gearbox is essentially a manual gearbox. same for dual clutch gearboxes.

 

the difference between F1 gearbox is it uses a single dry clutch, like those used in Ferrari 355 to 430, pre dual clutch era contis.

 

the shifts in the single clutch can be jerky, which may not be to everyone's liking. but for the enthusiast, it's more engaging and direct. the feeling of the gearshifts will be similar to shifting manually, with a left foot pedal.

 

dual clutch reduces that feeling. Auto even worse. What I'm referring to is the feeling of the shifts, not how much feel u get from using your left foot.

If we’re talking about a ‘purist’ enthusiast, then it’s gotta be a manual.

 

If u referring to Selespeed as the barometer for ‘enthusiast’, i really dunno wat to say.....

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Twincharged

AFAIK F1 sequential gearbox is not the same as a regular synchro-based manual gearbox. Please fact check.

 

And F1 does not want jerks in the gear shift.  :a-bang:  Goodness me. In fact they are trying to make them smooth. Do you know what happens if an F1 car with 700hp jerks through a shift around a corner at speed?  :a-rip:

 

The story from my friend who drives the Fiat with a Selespeed is different from your description... yes the clutch seems to last (so did my 9 year old VW DSG?), but the actuator for the clutch does not last and is a well known problem/failure.

 

May I know what type of DSG (6 or 7, wet or dry) is used in your VW.  Thanks.

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Clutched

Passat, superb, A4 all using DSG. So my choice a bit limited

Current A4 B9 GB is ok as it is a wet clutch. It is a very nice and smooth GB when you go slow except for slight jerking at gear 1 and 2. For a more engaging drive, just switch to the pedal shifters.

 

But nothing beats a manual stick shifter if fun is what you are looking for.

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Clutched

You see. You don't get it.

 

I am not even talking about sequential manual.

 

I am talking about automated clutch manual transmission.

 

Alfa selespeed.

When Selespeed was 1st introduced, it wow the motoring world. In today's world of fast shifting dual clutch and torque converter GB, selespeed feels slow and jerky.

 

Also, there's a reason why the 3.2 159 uses an Aisin 6 spd and not Selespeed.

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