How problematic is VW's 7 speed DSG?

[Felipe]

I don't know what to say...

 

F1 banned DCT. If they didn't, I bet you all F1 cars would have DCT to improve shift quality, and as a bonus the driver can even pre-select the next gear to be a down or upshift. Nobody wants a transmission that causes a jerk, especially not in a race car.

 

Do you know why modern super cars have these semi-automatic clutched transmissions? That's because they are so powerful that they can no longer make them fully manual otherwise you will break your foot trying to do gear changes. Every enthusiast out there wants a clutch pedal. Being able to master the clutch for a smooth shift is part of the "fun".

 

The reason why modern clutches don't last as long has a myriad of reasons, from increase in modern turbo engine output, to clutch material and clutch plate pressure (whether it was designed for performance or comfort), etc. Your reliability numbers are pulled from the sky, and I can assure you that the wet 6 DSG in the old Golf GTI also has issues before 100k. So did the ZF6 found in 2000+ BMWs. Nothing is flawless. There are always tradeoffs. 

lots of things are banned in F1, like from power steering to abs for the simple reason the focus is more on driver performance. your point of putting in DCT is moot for the simple reason too it is over-assisted, at least in the eyes of the FIA. I'm sure anything that can make life easier for the driver will be welcomed obviously but these will be outlawed. In short, nobody wants a car without ABS, but too bad, race drivers live with it. 

 

As for my opinion of 'jerk', why i like it is bcos it mimics the manual shift. perhaps u misunderstood i meant a huge amount of jerk. Obviously not. It's next to impossible to execute a manual shift seamlessly. There'll be some feeling. Maybe u can but i sure can't. So the singe clutch selespeed appeals to me. 

 

i did mention it was anecdotal evidence. Seeing from my regular workshop how dual dry clutches suffer quicker wear rather than single dry ones or wet dual ones. And added to tat, since there r two clutches, it's double the price even if the wear rate is the same. In any case, yr claims aren't from statistical evidence so let's leave it at that. 

[Felipe]

The fact is that single-clutch automated manual boxes are antiquated. 

 

I would describe the gearchange quality as more nauseating than jerky, when the ignition retards, power pauses and your head gets thrown forward, then backwards again as the next gear engages. To avoid soiling the car interior with puke, you need to brace your neck muscles, anticipate the gear change, ease up a little on the throttle, or resort to manual upshifts. Its the same kinda feeling in Fiat, Alfa, Opel and PSA single-clutch boxes. 

 

Honestly, the Selespeed A159 felt like a horse+cart in terms of drivetrain sophistication when compared to other sports saloons.

 

And I don't ever remembering shifts to be fast enough to elicit a jerk. It doesn't fire through the gears like bang, bang, bang. Maybe it happens in more powerful cars like F430 or the E60 M5 SMG which I have not driven.

 

With due respect, your last statement is warped. Its like saying the Merc E200 is a better car than the E63 cos it sells more. And certainly, the Giulia/Stelvio worldwide sales could be better but its definitely not due to its choice of gearboxes lah. Are you suggesting that the Giulia would be better with a Selespeed GB?

the extreme jerks only happen on high revs with huge throttle input. Tats y those who drive selespeed usually drive in manual cos it's a terrible gearbox when left in auto mode. As you said, there's some driver involvement and tats precisely why drivers like it for. Of cos, it's not possible for many to like this kind of gearbox considering how many don't like a full manual these days. 

 

I'm driving the previous gen selespeed so for sure it does fire through the gears, not seamlessly of cos like DCT. 

 

Lastly, i didn't say the 156 was a better car. It was just a car the Alfisti preferred. I admit i got a bit carried away with the Giulia statement. But fact is, no one really buys an Alfa to get a German cruise around feeling. If u have time, watch some of Clarkson's Top gear Alfa reviews, gearboxes aside. 

Whenever I watch youtube online car reviews for performance cars, I never once hear the car reviewers or pro-driver reviewers complain about the cars not having the "jerk".

 

At most they complain about not having the manual options. Even within manual cars, the reviewers are looking for smooth shifting and short throws that slot firmly and nicely in place. They all relish a perfectly executed downshift with minimal "jerk" , perfect racing line and powering out of the curve.

u just emphasized my point 'MINIMAL JERK'. 

 

imagine something with no feeling....zero 

MCF beri interesting lately. First got sleepy rims, now got jerky gb....lol.

I onli heard of beef jerky.

if i were to simplify things for u, it's the feeling of the gears shifting. I used to feel it a lot driving manual. When it's gone, the selespeed was the next best option. of cos, im surprised myself ppl can find such a thing interesting. But really, it's just feeling. something like...i like a car without power steering so i can feel the road better. 

I’m so looking forward to owning a Tesla one day. Who needs dinosaurs?

u can then call an F1 car a dinosaur. It has almost no driver aids. 

[Soya]

Errr...Selespeed = F1? Wahahaha..Ok ok

[Sdf4786k]

I don't know what to say...

 

F1 banned DCT. If they didn't, I bet you all F1 cars would have DCT to improve shift quality, and as a bonus the driver can even pre-select the next gear to be a down or upshift. Nobody wants a transmission that causes a jerk, especially not in a race car.

 

Do you know why modern super cars have these semi-automatic clutched transmissions? That's because they are so powerful that they can no longer make them fully manual otherwise you will break your foot trying to do gear changes. Every enthusiast out there wants a clutch pedal. Being able to master the clutch for a smooth shift is part of the "fun".

 

The reason why modern clutches don't last as long has a myriad of reasons, from increase in modern turbo engine output, to clutch material and clutch plate pressure (whether it was designed for performance or comfort), etc. Your reliability numbers are pulled from the sky, and I can assure you that the wet 6 DSG in the old Golf GTI also has issues before 100k. So did the ZF6 found in 2000+ BMWs. Nothing is flawless. There are always tradeoffs. 

 

I refute that claim. Probably lucky perhaps.

 

Mine was a stage 1 GTi Revo tune. Clock till 320000km WITHOUT failure. Just regular 60000KM DSG oil changes. 

 

Granted I drive sensibly with the occasional WOT and wheel spin and none of the once a week "clear carbon" myth by doing launch control.

 

I supposed as many owner of a GTi can attest that it will break IF you launch it every week, or u mod to stage 3 with big turbo or some crazy DSG tune that does not really add to the way the car was build for.

 

There are still cases with GTI MU failure that I am aware of but thats because it was not stock to begin with and it was "very enjoyable " at the track. Thats as much as what I can share.  

[inlinesix]

Errr...Selespeed = F1? Wahahaha..Ok ok

Selespeed is waterdown version of Ferrari F1 transmission

[inlinesix]

Selespeed is waterdown version of Ferrari F1 transmission

 

Whoever writes this comment

Far from it lah. Not the same.

 

 

Read this:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/19970804/ANE/708040768/ferrari-launches-f1-style-gearbox-on-f355

 

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ferrari/f355/f355_berlinetta/1999.html

F355 Manual

F355 F1

[Vratenza]

IMHO, saying selespeed is a watered down version of F1 ferrari transmission is akin to saying the following:

 

Subaru's flat 4/6 engines are watered down version of porsche's renown flat 6 engine. 

 

All modern flappy paddles are watered down version of Porsche tiptronic. 

 

Can only say... Same same but not the same.   

 

Whoever writes this comment

 

Read this:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/19970804/ANE/708040768/ferrari-launches-f1-style-gearbox-on-f355

 

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ferrari/f355/f355_berlinetta/1999.html

F355 Manual

F355 F1

 

[inlinesix]

IMHO, saying selespeed is a watered down version of F1 ferrari transmission is akin to saying the following:

 

Subaru's flat 4/6 engines are watered down version of porsche's renown flat 6 engine. 

 

All modern flappy paddles are watered down version of Porsche tiptronic. 

 

Can only say... Same same but not the same.   

 

Read the article properly.  Ferrari F1 transmission is the predecessor of Double clutch 7 (that started from Ferrari Cali).

 

I am not talking about Formula 1.

 

I am talking about Ferrari Electrohydraulic manual tranmission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydraulic_manual_transmission

http://europe.autonews.com/article/19970804/ANE/708040768/ferrari-launches-f1-style-gearbox-on-f355

 

Ferrari chose Formula One-style paddles behind the steering wheel. Alfa Romeo will use a joystick in the same position as a traditional gear lever for the transmission on its 156. Another carmaker, which Magneti Marelli refuses to identify, will use buttons on the instrument panel.

 

 

Alfa selespeed/Ferrari F1 transmission supplies by Magnetti Marelli.

 

Does Porsche supplies Subaru Flat6?

[Vratenza]

I grant you that Magnetti Marelli supplied the transmission to both Alfa and Ferrari.

 

I test drove the alfa selespeed before, never have opportunity to test drive a Ferrari with F1 transmission. 

 

I can say that I rather drive a proper full manual Alfa than that selespeed.....and this is coming from someone who prefers AT over MT for local traffic conditions and ownership.

 

That's why I striked off an alfa 159 selepeed, after a test drive at the AD, when I was in the market for a performance oriented sedan some years back.

 

I shudder to think what kind of driving the ferrari drivers have to deal with if the transmission behaves the same as the selespeed.

 

 

 

Read the article properly.  Ferrari F1 transmission is the predecessor of Double clutch 7 (that started from Ferrari Cali).

 

I am not talking about Formula 1.

 

I am talking about Ferrari Electrohydraulic manual tranmission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydraulic_manual_transmission

http://europe.autonews.com/article/19970804/ANE/708040768/ferrari-launches-f1-style-gearbox-on-f355

 

 

Alfa selespeed/Ferrari F1 transmission supplies by Magnetti Marelli.

 

Does Porsche supplies Subaru Flat6?

 

[inlinesix]

I grant you that Magnetti Marelli supplied the transmission to both Alfa and Ferrari.

 

I test drove the alfa selespeed before, never have opportunity to test drive a Ferrari with F1 transmission. 

 

I can say that I rather drive a proper full manual Alfa than that selespeed.....and this is coming from someone who prefers AT over MT for local traffic conditions and ownership.

 

That's why I striked off an alfa 159 selepeed, after a test drive at the AD, when I was in the market for a performance oriented sedan some years back.

 

I shudder to think what kind of driving the ferrari drivers have to deal with if the transmission behaves the same as the selespeed.

 

 

That's why Alfa driver likes to drive it in manual rather than Auto mode. 

 

I believe you are driving it in auto mode.

 

What you mentioned does not surprise me at all.

 

I read similar comments on BMW ///M SMG.

 

Hearsay Ferrari MT has very heavy clutch.  It is difficult to use.

[Soya]

Enuf of OT lah

 

This thread abt 7-spd DSG

 

Not about trying to justify why a jerky gearbox makes one an ‘enthusiast’....

[Gz0707]

Probably more useful to know if users have had any problems with current 7 spd dry set up available in their new cars eg Seat 1.0T Leon, Hyundai 1.6T Tucson and 1.4T i30 (2018 launch). Some Tucson drivers encountered some "slipping" or gear engagement issue going up car parks, so they are a bit apprehensive.  From a visit to Hyundai, can see that AD knows the issue of adapting to DCT driving style cos I saw this brochure in the glove box of the i30 on display.  A quick check with Hyundai and Seat forums did not show massive unhappiness with the current DCT GB.  Maybe the DCT gear boxes have improved? 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Gz0707

[Eyke]

Which manufacturer abandon? Looks like many still using leh

 

Volvo is one.

 

But could be after divorce with Ford, they stopped getting good price for Ford's Powershift DCT.

 

Ford itself may also be moving away from DCT:

 

https://paultan.org/2018/05/16/the-fashion-is-gone-with-the-dual-clutch-transmission/

 

(surprised that learn that: "...It’s actually now faster in a (planetary) automatic, because you can control the torque. That means ultimately your 0-100 km/h times are quicker with an auto, which takes away all of the marketing puff for the dual-clutch")

 

and Ford being sued for Powershift DCT issues: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/business/201536/ford-s-gear-box-scandal-reaches-vietnam.html in:

- USA

- Australia

- Thailand

- Vietnam

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Eyke

[Aaronlkl]

Driver ability to drive MT is the main consideration why all supercar uses DCT or AT TC.

 

There are not a lot of drivers out there who can handle 500NM torque with MT.

 

Ferrari moved from MT to AMT to DSG to pull in more sales.

 

Ferrari 1st SMT available model is F360.

 

Ferrari 1st DCT available model is Cali.

 

Nowaday, it is not surprising to see female Ferrari driver or owner.

 

Currently, i only knows Lambo Aventador is using automated clutch manual transmission.

 

Das gute alte Schaltgetriebe ist das Beste! 

[Petrolheadsg]

I refute that claim. Probably lucky perhaps.

 

Mine was a stage 1 GTi Revo tune. Clock till 320000km WITHOUT failure. Just regular 60000KM DSG oil changes. 

 

Granted I drive sensibly with the occasional WOT and wheel spin and none of the once a week "clear carbon" myth by doing launch control.

 

I supposed as many owner of a GTi can attest that it will break IF you launch it every week, or u mod to stage 3 with big turbo or some crazy DSG tune that does not really add to the way the car was build for.

 

There are still cases with GTI MU failure that I am aware of but thats because it was not stock to begin with and it was "very enjoyable " at the track. Thats as much as what I can share.  

 

2007 Mk V Golf GTI owner from new.  150k miles.  Stage 1.  DSG still going strong.  changed my DSG oil at 70k and 140k.  

[Wt_know]

in 10 years ... up by approx 700% ...

who cares simi DSG problem ... VW ftw !!!

Edited September 1, 2018 by Wt_know

[Beregond]

My Vw Golf VI 1.6 diesel DSG  7 has similar problem with gearbox. In the 1st and 2nd gear it has a light shudder.

 

I asked some local service shop to change the oil but and they told me that this dry gearbox and after searching on internet I find out that this is a DQ200 and does not need oil change.

 

We have 5 vehicles with the same gearbox because we are a small rent a car company and I'm afraid that the others cars my have the same issue later with the gearbox.

 

My question is what can I do in order to prevent this from happen and it true that the oil fluid for this gearbox does not need to be changed?

 

Thanks a lot gays 

[ER-3682]

My Vw Golf VI 1.6 diesel DSG  7 has similar problem with gearbox. In the 1st and 2nd gear it has a light shudder.

 

I asked some local service shop to change the oil but and they told me that this dry gearbox and after searching on internet I find out that this is a DQ200 and does not need oil change.

 

We have 5 vehicles with the same gearbox because we are a small rent a car company and I'm afraid that the others cars my have the same issue later with the gearbox.

 

My question is what can I do in order to prevent this from happen and it true that the oil fluid for this gearbox does not need to be changed?

 

Thanks a lot gays 

EriAga,if you doing a Car Rental Company,you have bought the wrong Car  ,you see why,Taxi Companies,Grab & Go Jek,avoided VW at all cost.....nothing can be done to prevent this Gearbox from failing...