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How problematic is VW's 7 speed DSG?

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Turbocharged

Many VAG cars too from Audi to Bentley.

Not forgetting the base 4.2L Maserati GT
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Supercharged (edited)

Actually, non-DSG driver are not outdated, but merely enjoying a different type of system. Traditional torque converter is smoother, less jerk but at the expense of slightly more fuel consumed due to fluid transfer method. But the jewel of torque converter auto is ZF8 which is lightning fast yet smooth. It is almost DCT equivalent.

 

CVT had improved leap and bound over the years, nothing wrong with it but just different, different philosophy in how car should perform.

I have all along disliked CVT. It zapped the life out of all the cars I have driven that were equipped with it. The feeling of disconnect and rubber band feeling was off-putting. DCT or a good torque converter are always better enthusiast choices.

 

Circumstances led me to change from a 7-Gtronic car to an e-CVT one, coupled to a hybrid powertrain. I thought I would dread the gearbox and have to console myself with the improved fuel economy.

 

The rise and fall of engine note, which is music to car nuts, is history. But the instantaneous response to throttle input was what I didnt expect. From any speed whether at 20kmh or 120kmh, just a push of the throttle would send the car sprinting forward, with no lag, no delay, every time. No need to second guess the gearbox. Very useful for lane changing and overtaking, or joining expressway from slip roads And that is in Normal mode. In Sport mode, it's electric. Pun not intended.

 

Well, yes some may rightly say that the battery provided the instant response. And yes, the V6 is quite powerful. But I'm talking about how CVT can respond quickly too, as it doesn't have to wait for a downshift or hunt for the right gear. Step and go! And full acceleration is uninterrupted by gearchanges. It just pulls and pulls seamlessly until you had enough and you let go the throttle. Overall I prefer it to the stodgy 7-Gtronic which is slow and unresponsive.

 

Just like what you said, it's a different philosophy, and I don't quite mind it as much now. I agree with your statement that it's horses for course, and DSG is good but others are also good in their own ways and are by no means out-dated. To say DSG is king and all other gearbox types are peasants is pedantic.

 

Still miss the revs going up and down though...

Edited by Toeknee_33
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4th Gear

I recently took a toyota prius cab by SMRT. The driver grew impatient behind a comfort i40 along a small road and decided to overtake it. The prius roared and struggled to accelerate! I had my balls in my mouth and my heart skipped a beat, thinking he could make it...

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5th Gear

It's the hybrid (electric motor) that is helping, not the CVT.

 

If it's possible to entirely disengage the electric motor, it will be quite boring.

 

That said, any car with loads of power will feel better, such as Forester XT.

 

I have all along disliked CVT. It zapped the life out of all the cars I have driven that were equipped with it. The feeling of disconnect and rubber band feeling was off-putting. DCT or a good torque converter are always better enthusiast choices.

Circumstances led me to change from a 7-Gtronic car to an e-CVT one, coupled to a hybrid powertrain. I thought I would dread the gearbox and have to console myself with the improved fuel economy.

The rise and fall of engine note, which is music to car nuts, is history. But the instantaneous response to throttle input was what I didnt expect. From any speed whether at 20kmh or 120kmh, just a push of the throttle would send the car sprinting forward, with no lag, no delay, every time. No need to second guess the gearbox. Very useful for lane changing and overtaking, or joining expressway from slip roads And that is in Normal mode. In Sport mode, it's electric. Pun not intended.

Well, yes some may rightly say that the battery provided the instant response. And yes, the V6 is quite powerful. But I'm talking about how CVT can respond quickly too, as it doesn't have to wait for a downshift or hunt for the right gear. Step and go! And full acceleration is uninterrupted by gearchanges. It just pulls and pulls seamlessly until you had enough and you let go the throttle. Overall I prefer it to the stodgy 7-Gtronic which is slow and unresponsive.

Just like what you said, it's a different philosophy, and I don't quite mind it as much now. I agree with your statement that it's horses for course, and DSG is good but others are also good in their own ways and are by no means out-dated. To say DSG is king and all other gearbox types are peasants is pedantic.

Still miss the revs going up and down though...

 

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3rd Gear

I have all along disliked CVT. It zapped the life out of all the cars I have driven that were equipped with it. The feeling of disconnect and rubber band feeling was off-putting. DCT or a good torque converter are always better enthusiast choices.

 

Circumstances led me to change from a 7-Gtronic car to an e-CVT one, coupled to a hybrid powertrain. I thought I would dread the gearbox and have to console myself with the improved fuel economy.

 

The rise and fall of engine note, which is music to car nuts, is history. But the instantaneous response to throttle input was what I didnt expect. From any speed whether at 20kmh or 120kmh, just a push of the throttle would send the car sprinting forward, with no lag, no delay, every time. No need to second guess the gearbox. Very useful for lane changing and overtaking, or joining expressway from slip roads And that is in Normal mode. In Sport mode, it's electric. Pun not intended.

 

Well, yes some may rightly say that the battery provided the instant response. And yes, the V6 is quite powerful. But I'm talking about how CVT can respond quickly too, as it doesn't have to wait for a downshift or hunt for the right gear. Step and go! And full acceleration is uninterrupted by gearchanges. It just pulls and pulls seamlessly until you had enough and you let go the throttle. Overall I prefer it to the stodgy 7-Gtronic which is slow and unresponsive.

 

Just like what you said, it's a different philosophy, and I don't quite mind it as much now. I agree with your statement that it's horses for course, and DSG is good but others are also good in their own ways and are by no means out-dated. To say DSG is king and all other gearbox types are peasants is pedantic.

 

Still miss the revs going up and down though...

 

it's the feeling, not the speed. driving fast racy cars is never just about speed, but driver engagement. 

 

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Turbocharged

it's the feeling, not the speed. driving fast racy cars is never just about speed, but driver engagement. 

Agreed,like driving between  a Tesla & V6 or 8 Petrol Engine....Petrol V6 or 8 might be slower than the Tesla..but the sound made are ''Addictive''. [thumbsup]

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Supercharged

it's the feeling, not the speed. driving fast racy cars is never just about speed, but driver engagement. 

 

Yeah, i do agree with you on driver engagement, but like everyone else in this forum, my needs are different. I don't need to feel racy on public roads. My daily driver needs to be quick and comfy and reliable. The CVT in my car is marginal but adequate.

 

I fulfill my needs for driver engagement with circuit racing at Sepang.  [;)]

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4th Gear

Agree. As my age catches up, I value more on comfort and refinement than engagement.

My last model was a CVT from Subaru and is nice to cruise along with it but of course, most say lineartronic CVT is among the best out there in its class. I went back to DSG mainly because of Subaru lacklustre engine which translate to poor drivetrain. One bro did mention here that CVT is usually associates with less engagement, I suspect mostly pointed to it being paired with low powered engine. 

Yeah, i do agree with you on driver engagement, but like everyone else in this forum, my needs are different. I don't need to feel racy on public roads. My daily driver needs to be quick and comfy and reliable. The CVT in my car is marginal but adequate.

 

I fulfill my needs for driver engagement with circuit racing at Sepang.  [;)]

 

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3rd Gear

Yeah, i do agree with you on driver engagement, but like everyone else in this forum, my needs are different. I don't need to feel racy on public roads. My daily driver needs to be quick and comfy and reliable. The CVT in my car is marginal but adequate.

 

I fulfill my needs for driver engagement with circuit racing at Sepang. [;)]

I wasn't referring to your needs, but to the reasons y cvt is not the ideal choice in terms of driver engagement. I'm sure Ferrari could build a cvt car but it's obvious y they don't.

Agree. As my age catches up, I value more on comfort and refinement than engagement.

My last model was a CVT from Subaru and is nice to cruise along with it but of course, most say lineartronic CVT is among the best out there in its class. I went back to DSG mainly because of Subaru lacklustre engine which translate to poor drivetrain. One bro did mention here that CVT is usually associates with less engagement, I suspect mostly pointed to it being paired with low powered engine.

Nope. It's less engaging for the reason there's no feeling to the gears, up or down. I mean Ferrari can put a cvt in the 488 and power it to 3 secs 0-100. But i doubt that's what their fans want

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Supercharged (edited)

Just like what you said, it's a different philosophy, and I don't quite mind it as much now. I agree with your statement that it's horses for course, and DSG is good but others are also good in their own ways and are by no means out-dated. To say DSG is king and all other gearbox types are peasants is pedantic.

@Felipe, it seems that you exemplified what I said in an earlier post. I already agreed with you and acknowledged the superiority of the DCT in driver engagement in my reply to you. Nobody said CVT was better. I certainly didn't. Ferrari certainly won't agree too!

 

But is driver engagement the most important thing and it's what everyone wants? To drive fast racy cars on public roads? Should we all be zipping around in go-karts instead? Max engagement I must say. Don't be so parochial. Come on!

Edited by Toeknee_33
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Turbocharged

Agree. As my age catches up, I value more on comfort and refinement than engagement.

My last model was a CVT from Subaru and is nice to cruise along with it but of course, most say lineartronic CVT is among the best out there in its class. I went back to DSG mainly because of Subaru lacklustre engine which translate to poor drivetrain. One bro did mention here that CVT is usually associates with less engagement, I suspect mostly pointed to it being paired with low powered engine. 

What about WRX.?It is High Powered & is paired with CVT....It is alright.?

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Twincharged

What about WRX.?It is High Powered & is paired with CVT....It is alright.?

And look at how 'successful' it is today...
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4th Gear

Agree, cvt gearbox is absolute crap in terms of driver engagement but good for amazing fuel consumption numbers.

 

But as a driver, if I'm driving a cvt car that's lethargic then there is a tendency to floor it which ends up drinking more petrol.

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4th Gear (edited)

I know some will point out CVT-WRX. Not sure because have never driven one.

If you look at market offering, most if not all are pair to B&B cars.

Cost is probably one key consideration in such packaging.

Honestly, CVT is ok to drive and I probably will choose it over most torque converter for its efficiency. Just have to give throttle input and let it works its way up.

 

What about WRX.?It is High Powered & is paired with CVT....It is alright.?

 

Edited by Sopskysalat

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4th Gear

It is all down to driver's feel and engagement. For 2 similar powered vehicles with CVT vs AT, the driver will feel the acceleration more in the AT though they may reach the same speed at the same time. In fact, CVTs may reach the desired speed faster as there is no loss of speed to gear shifts. That surge in speed in AT when gears shift is what drivers (or at least for me) like to feel when driving. There is more engagement as the car is responding to your input almost instantaneously.

DSG aims to provide the best of both CVT and AT and I think it has achieved that, reliability and maintenance cost aside. (Disclaimer: I have not driven a DSG vehicle before, just reading the tech behind DSG for my opinion).

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Twincharged (edited)

It is all down to driver's feel and engagement. For 2 similar powered vehicles with CVT vs AT, the driver will feel the acceleration more in the AT though they may reach the same speed at the same time. In fact, CVTs may reach the desired speed faster as there is no loss of speed to gear shifts. That surge in speed in AT when gears shift is what drivers (or at least for me) like to feel when driving. There is more engagement as the car is responding to your input almost instantaneously.

DSG aims to provide the best of both CVT and AT and I think it has achieved that, reliability and maintenance cost aside. (Disclaimer: I have not driven a DSG vehicle before, just reading the tech behind DSG for my opinion).

You are spot on in differentiating CVT and AT(or manual if we like it), this is the same for full electric vehicles , there would be no gear change and therefore could be felt less engaging, but as we know, simply how fast some of the full EVs could achieve today. Our next generation may feel AT being jerky if they are so getting used to EV , say maybe in 10 to 20 years time. Remember the older days, when auto was less efficient, most people said they prefer manual, these days, i suspect more than 95% of the cars on the road are auto. My point is technology will continue to evolve, in parallel , people's perception and expectation will change accordingly too. Edited by Ct3833
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2nd Gear

And look at how 'successful' it is today...

Err. What do mean by successful?

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Turbocharged

Err. What do mean by successful?

The word SUCCESSFUL has inverted comas
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