SIBOR rates and home loan repricing

[CH_CO]

Understanding how the flow of money and how "wealth" has being created, interest or what bulls**t about how much a currency is worth. First must understand what is "value"

 

So how do you value how much an asset is worth? While people debates over how much a certain currency is worth, they failed to understand a simple fact, the moment a particular currency is made worthless, how does it affect the rest.

 

In us, we have a established stabilization factor in which most of the time most places would be kept in peace while some places where their interest is involved remains fighting.

 

Do you see them fighting in Korea? The ones dying over there from starvation probably is so "less" that it is not even worth mentioning as compared to the thousands dying to Ebola or even war on so called terror.

 

No matter how rotten us is, it is a necessary evil/good of which the lack of it makes the world an even worse place than it is today.

 

Imagine a world of every man for himself , do you think your place would be worth whatever amount you think it is worth today when without the rule of law, anyone can snatch it from your hands if they are stronger.

 

The stupid would think that this number that number of debt cannot be repaid, to me it is just another number on the system , key another zero and everything is solved. I have no language ability to explain what I think I know but I think those which know what I am trying to say can help.

 

I do not expect everyone to understand but concepts of how valuation is made is slightly wrong. Some idiots think a % in hikes would be x amount of billions without knowing merely the hint of a hike has already wiped trillions of dollars out, if one is trading again those would have probably made trillions back. Well stupidty is a blessing, I am glad I am a mere table wiper enjoying my hawker food and my tao hui zhui and not make uneducated guesses on how the financial system should/must work.

Edited November 28, 2015 by CH_CO

[CH_CO]

Maybe I need to add some hints.

 

value : the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something

 

What is the value of a bottle of water to a dying man in a desert which found a treasure "worth" billions.

 

Life of people here too good , failed to understand how we are worth and how we are valued.

Edited November 28, 2015 by CH_CO

[Bacteria83]

I only know the simple version of value.

 

Whatever X amount someone is prepare to pay for that item, that item has that X value. Human create value for something out of nothing.

[Showster]

I fail to understand, am an idiot and largely stupid. 

 

Therefore I do not listen to projections without backing logic. The last time US put a few zeros into their system, this was what happened to commodities and assets worldwide: hyperinflation. The moment they stopped keying zeros, we have zero inflation and a slight deflation. What does this tell us about Fiat and paper money value? 

 

"Hyperinflation is an extremely rapid period of inflation, usually caused by a rapid increase in the money supply. Usually due to unrestrained printing of fiat currency."

 

We are lucky the Govt magicked huge numbers of BTOs to stem the tide locally. There was an admitted overrun for private property prices up to 2013 due to over projection, but going forward, it should gradually settle into its equilibrium point with the increase in incomes and CPF caps, which support the market at HDB level. Ultimately, private represents only 15% of the whole market and there has already been 2.5 years of decline. Developers should make use of the decline in commodity and transport prices to build as fast as possible now. The HDB is also doing this.

 

And if there is a run for security worldwide, I am a firm believer that Singapore will be amongst the top 5 places people will try for. But this is off topic.

 

I shudder to think what will happen if US does NOT increase interest rates in Dec. 

 

 

Understanding how the flow of money and how "wealth" has being created, interest or what bulls**t about how much a currency is worth. First must understand what is "value"

So how do you value how much an asset is worth? While people debates over how much a certain currency is worth, they failed to understand a simple fact, the moment a particular currency is made worthless, how does it affect the rest.

In us, we have a established stabilization factor in which most of the time most places would be kept in peace while some places where their interest is involved remains fighting.

Do you see them fighting in Korea? The ones dying over there from starvation probably is so "less" that it is not even worth mentioning as compared to the thousands dying to Ebola or even war on so called terror.

No matter how rotten us is, it is a necessary evil/good of which the lack of it makes the world an even worse place than it is today.

Imagine a world of every man for himself , do you think your place would be worth whatever amount you think it is worth today when without the rule of law, anyone can snatch it from your hands if they are stronger.

The stupid would think that this number that number of debt cannot be repaid, to me it is just another number on the system , key another zero and everything is solved. I have no language ability to explain what I think I know but I think those which know what I am trying to say can help.

I do not expect everyone to understand but concepts of how valuation is made is slightly wrong. Some idiots think a % in hikes would be x amount of billions without knowing merely the hint of a hike has already wiped trillions of dollars out, if one is trading again those would have probably made trillions back. Well stupidty is a blessing, I am glad I am a mere table wiper enjoying my hawker food and my tao hui zhui and not make uneducated guesses on how the financial system should/must work.

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Seohster

[Voodooman]

I fail to understand, am an idiot and largely stupid.

 

Therefore I do not listen to projections without backing logic. The last time US put a few zeros into their system, this was what happened to commodities and assets worldwide: hyperinflation. The moment they stopped keying zeros, we have zero inflation and a slight deflation. What does this tell us about Fiat and paper money value?

 

"Hyperinflation is an extremely rapid period of inflation, usually caused by a rapid increase in the money supply. Usually due to unrestrained printing of fiat currency."

 

We are lucky the Govt magicked huge numbers of BTOs to stem the tide locally. There was an admitted overrun for private property prices up to 2013 due to over projection, but going forward, it should gradually settle into its equilibrium point with the increase in incomes and CPF caps, which support the market at HDB level. Ultimately, private represents only 15% of the whole market and there has already been 2.5 years of decline. Developers should make use of the decline in commodity and transport prices to build as fast as possible now. The HDB is also doing this.

 

And if there is a run for security worldwide, I am a firm believer that Singapore will be amongst the top 5 places people will try for. But this is off topic.

 

I shudder to think what will happen if US does NOT increase interest rates in Dec.

Years of QE have drove up prices, thus incentivizing business to expand production, the supply overhang is now here but demand has failed to catch up, with interest rate rising, it will be a double whammy. Fed hikes will just quicken the consolidation needed to bring about an equilibrium, the strong will kill off or buy out the highly leveraged. How to profit from this cycle?

[Matrix0405]

As recently as 2 weeks ago, OCBC and UOB were offering fixed first 2 yr rates at 1.68% but I think it has been withdrawn by now.

 

Maybe can wait the next promo but shld be higher abit but my take is if fixed first 2 yr rates are reasonable, can opt for that. 3rd yr maybe higher but you can do some partial repayment and also re-nego with the bank during the 3rd year but you normally can't re-finance with another bank until after the 3rd year.

 

 

Oh no, missed. Below 2% for 2 yrs are rates. How to know when they have promo again? They will publish in newspaper or can sign up for sms? 

[Showster]

Agree on the basis of certain classes of property for which the buyers depended on full leverage without supporting incomes.

 

We have short circuited the rise from 2013 while HK and China cities continued their run.

 

Are you of the opinion that those who continued to buy in 2014 or 2015 after a 5-9% dip and meeting TDSR (of 0.6 assuming 3.5% interests) and other financing criteria are mostly weak and highly leveraged? Are they really ignorant lemmings who followed the crowds?

 

Ok really off topic le. Again I reiterate, a full percent hike is tolerable, but I highly doubt it can take place so fast in a year. If the hikes take place as planned then it can't be that only US does well and the other economies tank so likely economic growth will be solid. It cannot be also the rates rise fast if all emerging economies are not doing well.

 

 

 

Years of QE have drove up prices, thus incentivizing business to expand production, the supply overhang is now here but demand has failed to catch up, with interest rate rising, it will be a double whammy. Fed hikes will just quicken the consolidation needed to bring about an equilibrium, the strong will kill off or buy out the highly leveraged. How to profit from this cycle?

 

[Showster]

Collection of acceptable and non acceptable explanations for hyperinflation, where coffeeshop Kopi goes from 60c to $1.20.

 

http://howfiatdies.blogspot.sg/2013/09/hyperinflation-explained-in-many.html?m=1

[Spring]

Oh no, missed. Below 2% for 2 yrs are rates. How to know when they have promo again? They will publish in newspaper or can sign up for sms?

There will definitely be ads in the papers I'm sure. Hopefully up 0.2 to 0.3% at most so shld be still below 2% but I just guessing only, will Hv to see what is offered eventually.

 

Worry is they do away with the fixed for 2yrs altogether due to the uncertainty of how much rates will go up by.

[Jamesc]

err bro, TS asked this 3 years (Jan 2012)  ago. And if he did took a fix rate at that time (1% + SIBOR, cap at 1.49% for 3 years), he would have missed out the much lower variable rate package (0.75%+SIBOR). By Jan 2015, 3-month sibor is just 0.46%, so the variable package is actually better for that 3 years.

 

Oh in this case

 

I hope TS didn't get a cap

 

and save some money.

 

  

[CH_CO]

I fail to understand, am an idiot and largely stupid.

 

Therefore I do not listen to projections without backing logic. The last time US put a few zeros into their system, this was what happened to commodities and assets worldwide: hyperinflation. The moment they stopped keying zeros, we have zero inflation and a slight deflation. What does this tell us about Fiat and paper money value?

 

"Hyperinflation is an extremely rapid period of inflation, usually caused by a rapid increase in the money supply. Usually due to unrestrained printing of fiat currency."

 

We are lucky the Govt magicked huge numbers of BTOs to stem the tide locally. There was an admitted overrun for private property prices up to 2013 due to over projection, but going forward, it should gradually settle into its equilibrium point with the increase in incomes and CPF caps, which support the market at HDB level. Ultimately, private represents only 15% of the whole market and there has already been 2.5 years of decline. Developers should make use of the decline in commodity and transport prices to build as fast as possible now. The HDB is also doing this.

 

And if there is a run for security worldwide, I am a firm believer that Singapore will be amongst the top 5 places people will try for. But this is off topic.

 

I shudder to think what will happen if US does NOT increase interest rates in Dec.

By you speaking like this , this are all "text" book solution and nothing to do with REALITY. Stop dreaming. Just a simple background check , have you done financing or worked in finance before? Borrowed money of even go malaysia to buy anything for instance "property". A loan of 2 milion taken when ringit was at 2.2~4 per SGD a few years ago and when the currency "devalues" to 3/ SGD , do you pay less or pay more if you are foriegner? You severely unestimated the flow of money. Haiz need to explain simple things.

 

Same applies for US and it's bond debt , those the government might have "lost" some interests and hike might cause some pain in interest repayments , but using those "free money" most FI would have easily made back those interests and more from the rise of property and various commodities elsewhere in the world and liquidated those investments and a hike is merely to make those prices drop to where those FI are comfortable again and for them to "reinvest". This is how the cycle of money comes about , the same way of your concept of how HDB "should" uses a lower commoditiy price to buy on "cheap". You see one but you fail to see another.Which is why i always say people seem to notice the flower but not the forest.

 

Are you aware that you potentially "pay" lesser internationally should the loan is taken in a currency which was particular weaken for a long period of time , namely USD. I won't bother to explain if you can't even understand such a simple logic and utter all sorts of bs which makes ZERO sense.

 

As for HDB and stuff , there are many people behind those ideas and those were proposed long long time ago and unlike what you think , those actions of "locking" in prices were done long ago , even if it was cheaper to build they would not do so as it doesn't justify the selling price if it was not on "demand". For example , a sand/cement import contract is a "fixed" price contract , not live wet market prices where everyday is different. Wow i don't wish to belittle anyone but i do really find it particularly naive. Wow garmen should make use of such time to do this and that.

 

As for what is FIAT currency , it is just a piece of paper which is guaranteed by a power which can assure that they are stronger than you and you can use that piece of paper to buy something , at least in their country. It applies to every country. The strenght/demand of it , depends on the "fear" of what other currencies or asset are worth less or nothing. The only thing which is internationally accepted is gold as a currency , the rest is just a merely guarantee , same applies for euro , ringit or even sgd. As for safe or not , it is not what you think but actually what LKY and gang thought long long time ago but that is another thing for another time. Explain to you also sai hei.

 

If you can't even understand this simple thing , i do not think you should be cutting and pasting all sort of bs which is not relevent.

Edited November 29, 2015 by CH_CO

[Voodooman]

Agree on the basis of certain classes of property for which the buyers depended on full leverage without supporting incomes.

 

We have short circuited the rise from 2013 while HK and China cities continued their run.

 

Are you of the opinion that those who continued to buy in 2014 or 2015 after a 5-9% dip and meeting TDSR (of 0.6 assuming 3.5% interests) and other financing criteria are mostly weak and highly leveraged? Are they really ignorant lemmings who followed the crowds?

 

Ok really off topic le. Again I reiterate, a full percent hike is tolerable, but I highly doubt it can take place so fast in a year. If the hikes take place as planned then it can't be that only US does well and the other economies tank so likely economic growth will be solid. It cannot be also the rates rise fast if all emerging economies are not doing well.

You can make money not just from property, right?

 

I think those who enter after 2013 are those buying for own stay, for investors, they have got to be financially strong to get pass TDSR.

[Showster]

OK let's not deviate too far away from the thread. I have had to use textbook situations to explain my observations because these are proposals made by people who are far more advanced in finance than I am. I am all textbook and you are all reality - I think readers can differentiate easily.

 

In no uncertain terms, I think the Fed will indeed raise interest rate twice by Dec 16 but the frequency thereafter will be very muted and much less frequent than our bankers lead us to imagine. In fact, there is only a 0.43 correlation between US Fed interest raise and other central banks raise in interest rates. But of course, all these are devoid of reality to you, so no need to bother about them. Perhaps you could share your predictions about how Fed will move their interest rates in the next two years?

 

Gold has stopped being the global currency since WWII - this was discussed with an investment banker and verified online. And US is definitely not the only currency that can devalue, many countries (including us) are doing it at some point or all the time.

 

Of course, nothing I say makes any meaning. That's because I fail to understand, am an idiot, stupid, can't understand simple things, frog in the well, lemming, follow the crowd etc. The ends justify the means - at least I get this point.

 

 

By you speaking like this , this are all "text" book solution and nothing to do with REALITY. Stop dreaming. Just a simple background check , have you done financing or worked in finance before? Borrowed money of even go malaysia to buy anything for instance "property". A loan of 2 milion taken when ringit was at 2.2~4 per SGD a few years ago and when the currency "devalues" to 3 SGD , do you pay less or pay more if you are foriegner? You severely unestimated the flow of money. Haiz need to explain simple things.

 

Same applies for US and it's bond debt , those the government might have "lost" some interests and hike might cause some pain in interest repayments , but using those "free money" most FI would have easily made back those interests and more from the rise of property and various commodities elsewhere in the world and liquidated those investments and a hike is merely to make those prices drop to where those FI are comfortable again and for them to "reinvest".  This is how the cycle of money comes about  , the same way HDB uses a lower commoditiy price to buy on "cheap". You see one but you fail to see another.Which is why i always say people seem to notice the flower but not the forest.

 

Are you aware that you potentially "pay" lesser internationally should the loan is taken in a currency which was particular weaken for a long period of time , namely USD. I won't bother to explain if you can't even understand such a simple logic and utter all sorts of bs which makes ZERO sense.

 

As for HDB and stuff , there are many people behind those ideas and those were proposed long long time ago and unlike what you think , those actions of "locking" in prices were done long ago , even if it was cheaper to build they would not do so as it doesn't justify the selling price if it was not on "demand". For example , a sand/cement import contract is a "fixed" price contract , not live wet market prices where everyday is different. Wow i don't wish to belittle anyone but i do really find it particularly naive. Wow garmen should make use of such time to do this and that.

 

As for what is FIAT currency , it is just a piece of paper which is guaranteed by a power which can assure that they are stronger than you and you can use that piece of paper to buy something , at least in their country. It applies to every country. The strenght/demand of it , depends on the "fear" of what other currencies or asset are worth less or nothing. The only thing which is internationally accepted is gold as a currency , the rest is just a merely guarantee , same applies for euro , ringit or even sgd. As for safe or not , it is not what you think but actually what LKY and gang thought long long time ago but that is another thing for another time. Explain to you also sai hei.

 

If you can't even understand this simple thing , i do not think you should be cutting and pasting all sort of bs which is not relevent.
 

 

[Icedbs]

Gold has stopped being the global currency since WWII - this was discussed with an investment banker and verified online. And US is definitely not the only currency that can devalue, many countries (including us) are doing it at some point or all the time.

 

On gold, while it may not be a "currency", it is certainly recognised as the real "money" simply because it cannot be created out of nothing.

 

In the old days before 1973 ( if I remember correctly), fiat money (or paper money) is pegged to the amount of gold they have.

 

Today, gold is somehow unloved and probably the lowest price in 5 years. I think it is time to buy back some...

[Showster]

Agree.

 

We are all awaiting the June 2017 deadline for TDSR exemptions (for those who bought before June 2013) to see if diarrhoea happens. 1.5 years more for those guys to offload if they need to.

 

I will try to refrain from talking about property. Sorry for making bros feel uncomfortable about the SIBOR, if any.

 

 

You can make money not just from property, right?

I think those who enter after 2013 are those buying for own stay, for investors, they have got to be financially strong to get pass TDSR.

 

I am also looking into gold.  

 

But there are also those who claim that when US interest rates rise, gold (that generates no interest) will be further unloved as compared to Fiat. So I am not making a move until that becomes clearer.

 

 

On gold, while it may not be a "currency", it is certainly recognised as the real "money" simply because it cannot be created out of nothing.

 

In the old days before 1973 ( if I remember correctly), fiat money (or paper money) is pegged to the amount of gold they have.

 

Today, gold is somehow unloved and probably the lowest price in 5 years. I think it is time to buy back some...

 

[Pinobii]

Agree.

 

We are all awaiting the June 2017 deadline for TDSR exemptions (for those who bought before June 2013) to see if diarrhoea happens. 1.5 years more for those guys to offload if they need to.

 

I will try to refrain from talking about property. Sorry for making bros feel uncomfortable about the SIBOR, if any.

 

 

 

 

I am also looking into gold.

 

But there are also those who claim that when US interest rates rise, gold (that generates no interest) will be further unloved as compared to Fiat. So I am not making a move until that becomes clearer.

The gold referred here is gold bar, gold coin or any type of gold?

[Duckduck]

On gold, while it may not be a "currency", it is certainly recognised as the real "money" simply because it cannot be created out of nothing.

 

In the old days before 1973 ( if I remember correctly), fiat money (or paper money) is pegged to the amount of gold they have.

 

Today, gold is somehow unloved and probably the lowest price in 5 years. I think it is time to buy back some...

 

short gold, long copper

 

[CH_CO]

OK let's not deviate too far away from the thread. I have had to use textbook situations to explain my observations because these are proposals made by people who are far more advanced in finance than I am. I am all textbook and you are all reality - I think readers can differentiate easily.

 

In no uncertain terms, I think the Fed will indeed raise interest rate twice by Dec 16 but the frequency thereafter will be very muted and much less frequent than our bankers lead us to imagine. In fact, there is only a 0.43 correlation between US Fed interest raise and other central banks raise in interest rates. But of course, all these are devoid of reality to you, so no need to bother about them. Perhaps you could share your predictions about how Fed will move their interest rates in the next two years?

 

Gold has stopped being the global currency since WWII - this was discussed with an investment banker and verified online. And US is definitely not the only currency that can devalue, many countries (including us) are doing it at some point or all the time.

 

Of course, nothing I say makes any meaning. That's because I fail to understand, am an idiot, stupid, can't understand simple things, frog in the well, lemming, follow the crowd etc. The ends justify the means - at least I get this point.

Well if you think so I can't stop you, I would like to highlight to you there are plenty side of the coin , merely talking to a "investment" banker and from forums would mean gold is no longer a global currency but why do people ranging from drug traffickers to rich billionaires move their funds via gold and diamonds and art work? Oh you mean your investment banker didn't tell you? It is merely via your normal fiak currency? Oh you mean you are the only one which knows investment blood suckers , the rest don't ? Only your one knows everything , others don't?

 

Do you think money only flows on the surface? As for FED rate increments, let's just say most of these has being factored. Anyway pointless debate when what I say and what you understand is different. I have already share a couple of times on possible rate hikes all the way to 2016, fed rates are likely to rise above 1% by mid 2017.

 

Well frog or not frog ,it is a fact a clown just told me hdb is making use of a lower commodity prices to build when simple common sense would have made anyone know that building contracts would being made long before the first plans were made , you mean only when they start building then they source ??

 

Well to each of their own. I merely highlighting facts , you think otherwise I cannot stop you , hope you can make plenty from it, likely our end points are the same but we might just have a different view, good luck though,

Edited November 29, 2015 by CH_CO