ST Forum: Offer Guidelines For Legal Fees

[Vulcann]

Is it true that the legal sector charge clients like what is being accused here by Mdm Chang for such cases?

 

Any lawyer bros or bros familiar with such care to comment?

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_773737.html

 

Offer guidelines for legal fees

Published on Mar 5, 2012

 

I RECENTLY engaged a lawyer to settle a tenancy dispute. I was told that legal costs are time-based and my straightforward case would cost about $5,000. However, the final bill came up to $23,000 - about five times the original estimate.

 

The lawyer claimed that the additional costs arose because he had to spend more time on my case, submitting five affidavits instead of three as expected initially.

 

The charges were billed over three instalments, two of which amounting to $20,000 were when the case was in progress and I felt compelled to pay so as not to jeopardise the proceedings. Then came the final bill of $3,000.

 

I called the Law Society of Singapore, only to find out that there are no guidelines for legal fees, unlike for the medical profession, which until recently had them to guard against overcharging.

 

I was told to find out about the fees charged by other lawyers, and was given figures of $4,000 and $5,000 by two law firms.

 

Proportionally speaking, if three affidavits cost $5,000, five should cost only about $8,000.

 

And if the affidavits are largely the same, with each subsequent one incorporating new points to refute the rebuttals of the defendant, should the fees not be incremental instead of being multiples of five?

 

There should be fee guidelines to ensure that professionals are not given a free hand when billing their clients.

 

The Law Society and the Consumers Association of Singapore should look into how legal fees are charged.

 

Chang Lee Lee (Madam)

[Rncw]

the name got 2 Lee also no discounts man....well, some are mosquitoes, some are leeches, and some vampires...

[Scb11980]

because there are too many lawyers in parliment

want to bet

 

there will not be schedule of fees for lawyer any time soon

 

prize

 

winner - 1 night stay at Fragrance Hotel with Sabbie, no breakfast, pay own GST

 

lets the competition begins

[Vid]

It's just like restaurants. The good ones will charge $10 for a glass of coke while the not so good ones charge $3. I wish there is a guideline too but sadly nothing is going to be done about it.

[Zanter]

It's just like restaurants. The good ones will charge $10 for a glass of coke while the not so good ones charge $3. I wish there is a guideline too but sadly nothing is going to be done about it.

 

Yup exactly. There is no market standard for exceptional talent. You want Davinder Singh, then you have to pay. You want cheap no name lawyer also have. Same goes for the specialist doctors. You want GP to do lipo suction is much cheaper but you may not live to complain about it . If you feel overcharged then go to Law Society to complain.

[Acemundo]

Is it true that the legal sector charge clients like what is being accused here by Mdm Chang for such cases?

 

Any lawyer bros or bros familiar with such care to comment?

 

From ST Forum:

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/Story/...ory_773737.html

 

Offer guidelines for legal fees

Published on Mar 5, 2012

 

I RECENTLY engaged a lawyer to settle a tenancy dispute. I was told that legal costs are time-based and my straightforward case would cost about $5,000. However, the final bill came up to $23,000 - about five times the original estimate.

 

The lawyer claimed that the additional costs arose because he had to spend more time on my case, submitting five affidavits instead of three as expected initially.

 

The charges were billed over three instalments, two of which amounting to $20,000 were when the case was in progress and I felt compelled to pay so as not to jeopardise the proceedings. Then came the final bill of $3,000.

 

I called the Law Society of Singapore, only to find out that there are no guidelines for legal fees, unlike for the medical profession, which until recently had them to guard against overcharging.

 

I was told to find out about the fees charged by other lawyers, and was given figures of $4,000 and $5,000 by two law firms.

 

Proportionally speaking, if three affidavits cost $5,000, five should cost only about $8,000.

 

And if the affidavits are largely the same, with each subsequent one incorporating new points to refute the rebuttals of the defendant, should the fees not be incremental instead of being multiples of five?

 

There should be fee guidelines to ensure that professionals are not given a free hand when billing their clients.

 

The Law Society and the Consumers Association of Singapore should look into how legal fees are charged.

 

Chang Lee Lee (Madam)

 

 

i was almost in the same shoes last year. had an errant tenant. seriously contemplated pursuing my rights in the contract as a landlord. but when i spoke to the lawyers, i decided not to proceed. even my case is strong, the legal costs and effort to pursue is definitely not worth it.

 

i just wonder if this madam chang's rent commands a much more higher figure. if that's the case, it may yet be worth the while to pursuit. however, i hate it that lawyers and certain profession charge based on time incurred without a ceiling. that means the longer the case drag, the more it will cost the appellant. but if we think of it more closely, the lawyer can earn more money by dragging it or writing affividavits that can be challenged by the other party. Fair?

 

thats why i feel while cost based on time is fair reward for lawyer's work, there ought to be a ceiling to prevent shock for the customer and manipluation by the lawyer.

[Zanter]

In the past there was a schedule of fees for conveyancing but the law society deregulated that. The result is much cheaper legal fees for the consumer. The problem about litigation is that there are varying grades of talent, just like types of durians so how to ask all the durian sellers to sell their quality durian at same prices of the lower quality ones?

 

Often before appointing the lawyer, they will ask you to sign a letter of appointment stating the hourly charge so it's up to you to agree or disagree with the charges. The more complex the matter, the more hours need to be spent doing work so the higher the cost. Very often even insurance companies will settle claims so as to save legal cost but some individuals may not wish to settle due to their stubbornness so end up paying legal cost far in excess of their claims, so blame who?

[Zanter]

You can in fact ask for the work to be capped but it is a double edge sword. If the cap is reached, the lawyer may think its not worth to spend further time on your file, even though say more research is required or they will just pass the work to some blur junior to complete. Say in divorce proceedings, you can get a cap of say 5k but that is if there is no dispute if there is dispute over matrimonial property, the time cost will escalate exponentially. So will you want a motivated attorney at say 10-15k or a bo chap one at 5k? In end of the day its always your choice as you may be fighting over forks/spoons or a 2 million dollar property.

[Acemundo]

You can in fact ask for the work to be capped but it is a double edge sword. If the cap is reached, the lawyer may think its not worth to spend further time on your file, even though say more research is required or they will just pass the work to some blur junior to complete. Say in divorce proceedings, you can get a cap of say 5k but that is if there is no dispute if there is dispute over matrimonial property, the time cost will escalate exponentially. So will you want a motivated attorney at say 10-15k or a bo chap one at 5k? In end of the day its always your choice as you may be fighting over forks/spoons or a 2 million dollar property.

 

true also. end of day i think it boils down to how much benefit there is in store to purusue.

 

like you say, 2m property then worth it. if say $3k rental....not worth it

 

but i think there should be a legal aid for average income people. if not, the law always works for the rich only. and we are not even talking about frivolous cases. even for cases with strong grounds, once the legal cost come into the picture, it is not worth pursuing.

[Zanter]

Yeah the legal aid standards are impossibly low and very few people will qualify. Maybe can ask NTUC to open a no frills legal service hub center .

[Acemundo]

Yeah the legal aid standards are impossibly low and very few people will qualify. Maybe can ask NTUC to open a no frills legal service hub center .

 

precisely. it is almost like only very poor people qualify. so the legal system works only for extremely poor people (say 5% of population) and extremely rich people (top 5%). where does this leaves the remaining 90%? suck thumb

[Maroon5]

use HOH lawyers loh haha...they are target the masses

but that said, its jus an expensive game w these lawyers these days. their hourly rates is one thing the way they count the hours is another. S$800/hr for a senior assoc tats the numbers im seeing.

[Acemundo]

use HOH lawyers loh haha...they are target the masses

but that said, its jus an expensive game w these lawyers these days. their hourly rates is one thing the way they count the hours is another. S$800/hr for a senior assoc tats the numbers im seeing.

 

actually even though some lawyers advertise as their pricing is for the masses, i still have my doubts how much the cost will balloon to especially for open ended cases like lawsuits.

 

for property conveyancing, at least it is certain that there is only this amount of work to be done. having said that, i remember back in early 2000 when i purchase my first property - during then, banks don't have such a practice of having their board of approved lawyers and legal subsidiy. so we just look for a lawyer on our own. this referred lawyer started telling us he would charge $3k for the service. when the final bill came, it was a good $5k. this is when a fee guideline will be useful to rein in such errant lawyers.

[Zanter]

HOH = no comment .

 

$800 per hour is normal but sometimes you pay $1000 per hour also get CMI types, but at $650-$500 can find decent ones. Still this is an expensive game to play and if you suing cos of ego then be prepared to face an ego deflating bill as Adrian found out. Justice is free but doesn't come cheap.

[Mustank]

i was almost in the same shoes last year. had an errant tenant. seriously contemplated pursuing my rights in the contract as a landlord. but when i spoke to the lawyers, i decided not to proceed. even my case is strong, the legal costs and effort to pursue is definitely not worth it.

 

i just wonder if this madam chang's rent commands a much more higher figure. if that's the case, it may yet be worth the while to pursuit. however, i hate it that lawyers and certain profession charge based on time incurred without a ceiling. that means the longer the case drag, the more it will cost the appellant. but if we think of it more closely, the lawyer can earn more money by dragging it or writing affividavits that can be challenged by the other party. Fair?

 

thats why i feel while cost based on time is fair reward for lawyer's work, there ought to be a ceiling to prevent shock for the customer and manipluation by the lawyer.

 

Bro, can share more about the errant tenant and how you resolve the issue? my mum wants to rent out their flat and stay with me. need to know as much as possible.....

[Gearoil]

Bro, can share more about the errant tenant and how you resolve the issue? my mum wants to rent out their flat and stay with me. need to know as much as possible.....

 

Use Ah beng ...

 

Strong arm tactic..

 

cheap...cheap....very effective...

[Acemundo]

Bro, can share more about the errant tenant and how you resolve the issue? my mum wants to rent out their flat and stay with me. need to know as much as possible.....

 

it is quite a long writeup especially the part about the way to deal with them. if you are interested, i can email you.

 

as for what he did, it includes

 

1) asking for a living room aircon after moving in even though it was not requested during his viewing and signing of tenancy agreement

2) breaking and dirtying the fixtures in the house

3) stealing a modem

4) asking for one of the room aircon to be replaced even though he had intiially agreed that it was cold enough when we tested the aircon together for more than one hour.

5) breaking the lease on his own accord

6) raising his voice to demand the rental deposit be refunded even though he had defaulted on the other 5 points

[Gearoil]

If I start a course as to:

 

HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT TENANT from the start and profit handsomely from it..

 

Lawyers will not have such business anymore from client seeking tenancy dispute..

 

Property agents will have no more rental commission to make.

 

And ppl who I can call idiots and morons, will no longer be around in forums to let me call them as such...

 

I had come across close to 20 years or so of that many tenants and I have not needed to get legal help in every instance...

 

And jokingly ...I have not needed to restort to Ah Beng ...strong arm tactic...

 

So what is me that is so different from morons?

 

Maybe I should start the course on this and charge each moron S$200 for it and that is only for ONE session...