SAF suspends smoke grenade training

[Mikelcy1963]

Summary punishment not revealed and in the end resulted in promotion in a relatively short time. If this is leadership and justice, I don't know what to say...

[Playtime]

Look at ST today. Another half page. Pg A34.

 

It says there are aiming of anti SAF and anti NS sentiments in forums.

Gosh. .. I tot people were just asking for justice and symphaty to be given to the victims. ..

 

It says mindef have a lengthy detail of what happened in a post on Monday.

My god. . The families rebutting reply

 

https://mobile.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1104116539632943&id=377738552270749&_ft_=top_level_post_id.1104116539632943%3Atl_objid.1104116539632943&refid=17&__tn__=%2C%3B

 

It says Def min Ng "addressed the issue, urging his ministry to waive the legal cost owed to it."

URGING ah... again the arms length approach.

 

have to say. . It wasn't unexpected.

 

Oh.. before I forget.

PgB6 read. .

Probation for teen thanks to good NS conduct.

 

Hit and run motorist had outstanding NS record.

 

President Tony tan and boy scouts. Quite free .. no important issues to attend to.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Playtime

[Staff69]

 

 

 

[Booyah]

 

 

The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it

 

 

http://sinkaporeboy.wix.com/mysite#!The-Punishment-of-the-two-Captains-and-why-MINDEF-is-so-secretive-about-it/c1kod/56e2c5520cf26c26a9f33ded

[Kusje]

The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it

 

 

http://sinkaporeboy.wix.com/mysite#!The-Punishment-of-the-two-Captains-and-why-MINDEF-is-so-secretive-about-it/c1kod/56e2c5520cf26c26a9f33ded

Paste the whole thing la. 

 

 

There is a good reason why BG Chan did not reveal what the punishment for those two officers were and why MINDEF has remain very secretive about it. It would shatter the family and shock the public that MINDEF allowed these two officers to get away with nothing more than a light tap on their wrists. Let me explain.

In trying to mislead and deceive the public with technicalities and duplicities, BG Chan stated this in his Facebook statement:

 

"The SAF has however taken administrative and disciplinary action against the two officers. While the CI and COI did not find that the two officers were directly responsible for PTE Lee’s death, the two officers were summarily tried in 2013 for negligent perforzmance of lawful order or duty, found guilty, and punished according to military law."

 

Note the phrase "summarily tried". A "summary trial", contrary to media reports, is not a General Court Martial (GCM). Those two were not "court martialled". They were "summarily tried".

 

Those who have been charged or have charged soldiers in a "summary trial" will know that the accused will be marched into the JDO's (Junior Disciplinary Officer - Company Commander) or SDO's (Senior Disciplinary Officer - Battalion Commander or Commanding Officer of School) office by their CSM/RSM. Next the JDO/SDO will read the charges out, ask the accused whether he wants to be tried by him (JDO/SDO) or have his case heard at the next higher level. If the accused elects to be heard by the JDO/SDO, he will then be asked whether he pleads guilty to the charges. The accused can elect not to plead guilty and have the case referred all the way up. But nobody in his right mind will do so as the punishment meted out during a summary trial is a whole lot lenient and there is a limit to the type and "severity" of punishment that can be meted out. The accused is then told of his punishment and marched out of the office by the CSM/RSM. 

 

As these two are Officers holding the ranks of Captain, their summary trial cannot be held before a JDO or SDO but can only be held before their Superior Commander (Brigade Commander or equivalent for schools). But the rest is similar, being marched into the personal office of their Superior Commander, having the charges read out, etc.

 

The type of punishment that can be meted out by their SC as spelt out in the SAF Act (Cap 295) are:

Powers of punishment of superior commander

 

70.—(1) A superior commander may upon conviction of an accused who is an officer below the rank of lieutenant-colonel or a warrant officer impose any one of the following punishments:

 

(a) forfeiture of seniority of rank and forfeiture of all or any part of his service for purposes of promotion;

(b) a fine not exceeding —

(i) in the case of officers who are of the rank of captain or major, a sum of $1,000 ; and

(ii) in the case of officers below the rank of captain and of warrant officers, a sum of $500 ; or

©reprimand.

(2) In addition to or in lieu of any other punishment, the superior commander may order that the accused shall suffer any deduction from his ordinary pay authorised by this Act.

 

 

That's all these two got as punishment for their negligence which resulted in the death of a soldier. Either a fine not exceeding $1,000 or a delayed promotion in future or a "reprimand" (verbal or written) and a salary deduction if deemed to be warranted by the SC. The "administrative action" would refer to their removal from the positions they held at that point of time to another position.

 

So there you have it. The "punishment" of these two for the needless death of a soldier and why MINDEF and BG Chan have been very secretive about it.

[Playtime]

http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/letters-in-print/nsfs-death-and-familys-bid-to-sue-mindef-replies

 

i tot the whole thing about TSR is to prevent unforeseeable accidents and such??

​

[Kusje]

http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/letters-in-print/nsfs-death-and-familys-bid-to-sue-mindef-replies

 

i tot the whole thing about TSR is to prevent unforeseeable accidents and such??

​

 

Noted 2 things in their reply.

 

1. Still not their fault. No apology.

2. Still refuse to disclose what punishment the 2 received. 

[Vid]

Noted 2 things in their reply.

 

1. Still not their fault. No apology.

2. Still refuse to disclose what punishment the 2 received. 

 

if they revealed the punishment, there would be even more anger from the public. The punishment is merely for not following the TSR and NOT for causing death.

[RH1667]

if they revealed the punishment, there would be even more anger from the public. The punishment is merely for not following the TSR and NOT for causing death.

After reading the 'punishment ' SGH staff received for their error, i do not think there is anything to look forward to the 'punishment ' for the 2 regulars, especially since it is quite clear / confirmed that one of them was even promoted.

 

Really have to ownself take care and look after ownself.

[Endurance201]

if they revealed the punishment, there would be even more anger from the public. The punishment is merely for not following the TSR and NOT for causing death.

The punishment is promotion la! Promote to next higher rank so take up more responsibility to exercise lesson learned!

Could be excuse from SAF!

[1fast1]

I was just thinking about something. When our "Founding PM" passed away, someone came up with the bright idea of producing and distributing commemorative decals free of charge. They became very popular with the public and not a single voice from the powers-that-be dissented. And why would they? It was a nice gesture, and I freely admit I sported one myself on my previous car.

 

Now, I wonder what would happen if someone designed the same for the fallen serviceman? It seems a fitting gesture to me. In fact, I would be willing to buy multiple decals if proceeds go to the family of the deceased.

 

I wonder if there would be any demur with regard to this gesture from those in exalted places?

Edited March 20, 2016 by Turboflat4

[Wishcumstrue]

I was just thinking about something. When our "Founding PM" passed away, someone came up with the bright idea of producing and distributing commemorative decals free of charge. They became very popular with the public and not a single voice from the powers-that-be dissented. And why would they? It was a nice gesture, and I freely admit I sported one myself on my previous car.

 

Now, I wonder what would happen if someone designed the same for the fallen serviceman? It seems a fitting gesture to me. In fact, I would be willing to buy multiple decals if proceeds go to the family of the deceased.

 

I wonder if there would be any demur with regard to this gesture from those in exalted places?

 

Something like this ?

 

[1fast1]

Something like this ?

 

I was thinking of something using that very inspiring photo of Dominique with the flag, but I would buy any decal made for this purpose.

[Playtime]

Something like this ?

 

I would buy.

But suspect police would step in. .

[SGCMmadman]

I sure paste on my car... in honour of all our fallen brothers from ww2 to konfrontasi to present day.

I sure paste on my car... in honour of all our fallen brothers from ww2 to konfrontasi to present day.

US uses an inverted rifle wif a helmet.

[Wishcumstrue]

Better don't get $ involved, since this isn't about profit making.

 

The point is we agree that fatalities and injuries NSF or NS men experienced are not being fully recognised by the State as a form of peace-time sacrifice. I understand some of the cases need to be kept under-wrap due to security and operation nature.

 

Regardless, I think there is a need for some form of (simple) public remembrance for those who lost their life and limbs while carrying their duties.

 

 

 

 

I would buy.
But suspect police would step in. .

 

 

Something like this ?

 

 

 

 

[Kac]

http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/letters-in-print/nsfs-death-and-familys-bid-to-sue-mindef-replies

 

i tot the whole thing about TSR is to prevent unforeseeable accidents and such??

​

When training, we were always told TSR is written in blood and have to pass (80%?? can't remember) lest we get a earful from the CO (was in a training School).

 

Now, direct contravention of TSR , which resulted in a completely preventable fatality, only punished with a slap on the wrist?

 

Now tell me, why I shouldn't be angry.

[Playtime]

Better don't get $ involved, since this isn't about profit making.

 

The point is we agree that fatalities and injuries NSF or NS men experienced are not being fully recognised by the State as a form of peace-time sacrifice. I understand some of the cases need to be kept under-wrap due to security and operation nature.

 

Regardless, I think there is a need for some form of (simple) public remembrance for those who lost their life and limbs while carrying their duties.

This episode really pisses me off big time. I did my duty and always belived that ns was a necessity.. and in return ,as conscript citizen soldiers, I always belived that soldiers must be the top priority. SAF must support the soldier.

This MUST be the basis of the relationship.

 

If you volunteered for the French foreign legion, North Korean army.. or the Empire as a storm trooper, then you must accept you are really an expendable commodity.. you asked for it.

We are not expendable! !

 

The arrogance, insensitivity and priorities shown by the establishment proves that the soldier is taken for granted.

 

The SAF is now a route to riches and powers the average pte XXX can only dream of, they need to look at their priorities again.

 

Off course.. there's a LOT more to look at about what it means to do NS.. but that would take a long essay. .