My built-in oven trip the house power supply

[Atonchia]

3 hours ago, Bluepica said:

Dug out an old thread because me also facing the same problem with my table top oven. Last use was using convection mode to roast the turkey, but when switch to grill, after a while power trip. Yesterday wanted to try again use the grill mode. Power trip again after the oven heating up a while.

Lazy to Google for solution so just call a handy man to repair it.

2 solutions given : 

1. send back to agent to change element for few hundreds buck but will eventually trip again if I seldom use the oven ( not worth it since the oven already 6 yrs old)

2. He change circuitry, and will not ever trip (smaller repair fee)

 

I choose the 2nd option.

After fixing, oven works. Great!

After having think for  while, what he did that cause the oven not to trip? OMG, have he removed the chasis grounding??

Called the repair man, he said chasis changed from ground to neutral, if any current leakage, it will trip the power too.

OK!

Further deep thinking... chasis tied to neutral, what if when next time I change the power plug, I accidentally swap the live with neutral, then the chasis with be electrify with live! or what if electrician contractor connect live and neutral wrongly at the wall socket (which happened in my flat before cos I test all power socket with a tester after the reno)

Answer is YES! the chasis will be electrify is there's swapping of polarity in the plug or outlet!!

He said it's safe in singapore, every outlet is tested by PUB and if using extension, get those SPRING approved....erh... error can happened based on my personal experience.

Dangerous!! I cannot take this solution... ask repairman to revert back my oven circuitry to original, even I have to forfeit the repair fee rather than risking getting electrocuted.

Now hope after the heating of the oven, the moisture built up in the heating element had gone and by re-instatement of the grounding to the chasis will not trip the power supply.

Finger cross.

Can report to the authority that issue his Electrician licence? 

That's how people get electrocuted or house caught fire. 

[Bluepica]

@Volvobrick 

14 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

My combo microwave oven has the same problem when using the convection oven. I remove the earth with when using this function and put back when done. And make sure no one else uses it during the period. 

After using it without the ground for a while, does it still trip using it with the ground attached back to it?

[Volvobrick]

1 minute ago, Bluepica said:

@Volvobrick 

After using it without the ground for a while, does it still trip using it with the ground attached back to it?

Yes unfortunately. The heating element doesn't completely dry out. 

[Bluepica]

15 hours ago, Lala81 said:

The repair guy is quite WTF. Lucky u are some guy with some basic electrical understanding.
Whether he killed someone before from this dodgy advice also dunno...

Hair dryer, I've done it before.
Sometimes it may require prolonged heating with hair dryer.

Probably i need to do it for my new place cos the existing built in oven not been switched on for almost a year.

U can actually just leave the hairdryer on inside the oven and close the door for 10-15min periods. Mine required almost 40-45mins with the hair dryer. Such that my hair dryer the plastic end is slightly deformed from the heat haha

 

Yah, I think at least he should explain to me what he will do before fixing a workaround method to see if it's acceptable to me or not. If I don't think deeply and ask, then everytime I'm using it will be a high risk.

[Bluepica]

1 minute ago, Volvobrick said:

Yes unfortunately. The heating element doesn't completely dry out. 

argh.... if using hair dryer can dry out the moisture in the heating elements, able to turn it on without grounding and heat it up for longer period should be a better option to dry it out 😞

[Bluepica]

The handyman came to revert back the circuitry...I took a peek at what he did... easy, cut the ground wire, connect chasis to the neutral wire (that was done previously to fix the trip problem). That time he told me change what what circuit board so it will not trip again even if I never use it long time. That time I didn't watch him repair cos I was busy.... wah lao, a quick and non-ethical method cost me $100... luckily I didn't opt for addition 6 months warranty that cost extra $50. lessons learnt.

but on the other note, once grounded back the chasis to actual grounding, the oven trip again after the heating element heated up a while.... during that "fix" period, I have turned the oven on at different mode for more than an hour, but now it still trip. Means even if i use hair dryer method also no use la hor? 😩

[Kb27]

20 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

The handyman came to revert back the circuitry...I took a peek at what he did... easy, cut the ground wire, connect chasis to the neutral wire (that was done previously to fix the trip problem). That time he told me change what what circuit board so it will not trip again even if I never use it long time. That time I didn't watch him repair cos I was busy.... wah lao, a quick and non-ethical method cost me $100... luckily I didn't opt for addition 6 months warranty that cost extra $50. lessons learnt.

but on the other note, once grounded back the chasis to actual grounding, the oven trip again after the heating element heated up a while.... during that "fix" period, I have turned the oven on at different mode for more than an hour, but now it still trip. Means even if i use hair dryer method also no use la hor? 😩

I think the trip is due to moisture collected near the wires of the heating element, it's not the problem with the actual heating element itself.

So try with a hair dryer and aim at the ends where the wires are, don't aim at the heating element.

I did this with my powerpac oven and the problem went away. But then, I use a Cornell air fryer right now, and the powerpac oven goes back into cold storage. 😃

[Bluepica]

16 minutes ago, Kb27 said:

I think the trip is due to moisture collected near the wires of the heating element, it's not the problem with the actual heating element itself.

So try with a hair dryer and aim at the ends where the wires are, don't aim at the heating element.

I did this with my powerpac oven and the problem went away. But then, I use a Cornell air fryer right now, and the powerpac oven goes back into cold storage. 😃

When you said "at the end where the wires are" means I have to open up the casing and hair dryer blow the wire soldered to the heating element part? 

[Kb27]

7 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

When you said "at the end where the wires are" means I have to open up the casing and hair dryer blow the wire soldered to the heating element part? 

Don't have to open up chassis. Just find which ends of the element are where the wires are. If you're unsure, and the element is horizontally mounted, just aim the dryer at both ends.

Intention is to heat up the air around the wires to drive away the moisture, long enough, such that it doesn't conduct electricity which then trips the breaker.

Bcuz the element is metallic and cold when not used for a long time, it tends to condense water, so therein lies the problem, when water vapour makes it to the wires, it created a conductive path to ground/earth wire and trips the breaker.

[Mkl22]

18 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

My combo microwave oven has the same problem when using the convection oven. I remove the earth with when using this function and put back when done. And make sure no one else uses it during the period. 

seconded. remove earth and then reconnect back when all is well heated. in the meantime just be careful around it. i have been doing this way for years.

 

https://www.fixwerks.com/the-beginners-guide-to-oven-trips-and-repairs/

so in removing the earth there is no "earth leakage" of course it is a tad unsafe but just watch over it and it will be fine.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Mkl22

[Bluepica]

2 hours ago, Kb27 said:

Don't have to open up chassis. Just find which ends of the element are where the wires are. If you're unsure, and the element is horizontally mounted, just aim the dryer at both ends.

Intention is to heat up the air around the wires to drive away the moisture, long enough, such that it doesn't conduct electricity which then trips the breaker.

Bcuz the element is metallic and cold when not used for a long time, it tends to condense water, so therein lies the problem, when water vapour makes it to the wires, it created a conductive path to ground/earth wire and trips the breaker.

Deep thinking.... meaning the head of the heating element inside the oven right?

But I have heated up the oven for mode than an hour using grill mode and also convection mode during the grounding was lifted away from the chasis.... if this direct heating doesn't get's the vapour out, I wonder the indirect heat from the hair dryer will helps... anyway I will try it before throwing the oven away 😞

[Bluepica]

2 hours ago, Mkl22 said:

seconded. remove earth and then reconnect back when all is well heated. in the meantime just be careful around it. i have been doing this way for years.

 

https://www.fixwerks.com/the-beginners-guide-to-oven-trips-and-repairs/

so in removing the earth there is no "earth leakage" of course it is a tad unsafe but just watch over it and it will be fine.

Done, but still trip once the ground fitted back in. There's no element breakage in the heating element itself because during the heating up when the grounding was remove, I can see the whole heating element glowing red, there's no part that didn't glowing.

[Arogab]

On 9/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, Bluepica said:

After fixing, oven works. Great!

After having think for  while, what he did that cause the oven not to trip? OMG, have he removed the chasis grounding??

Called the repair man, he said chasis changed from ground to neutral, if any current leakage, it will trip the power too.

OK!

Further deep thinking... chasis tied to neutral, what if when next time I change the power plug, I accidentally swap the live with neutral, then the chasis with be electrify with live! or what if electrician contractor connect live and neutral wrongly at the wall socket (which happened in my flat before cos I test all power socket with a tester after the reno)

Answer is YES! the chasis will be electrify is there's swapping of polarity in the plug or outlet!!

He said it's safe in singapore, every outlet is tested by PUB and if using extension, get those SPRING approved....erh... error can happened based on my personal experience.

@Bluepica Bro, yesterday I saw what you wrote and did not have time to read thru. Now I read and your explanation does no seems right too. 

The Neutral is the return line of the electricity working together with the Live. The Earth ( or Ground) is to detect electrical leakage to the equipment.

So I did not see how and what the guy switch. I believe he could have just remove the connection of the Earth connection from the chassis.

Can you tell me what has trip on your electrical panel? The ELCB or the Isolator. 

Probably your oven heater is not good anymore and electrical leakage is there passing the leak current to the chassis. Earth on Chassis is for safety in case you touch the chassis when there is a leak. 

I may not solve your problem but probably you should change the oven as it may not be economical to repair and not safe

 

[Mkl22]

39 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

Done, but still trip once the ground fitted back in. There's no element breakage in the heating element itself because during the heating up when the grounding was remove, I can see the whole heating element glowing red, there's no part that didn't glowing.

how long did it take? the heating part. mine was a small oven and actually i didn't bother to put the earth back till after some months of using. so it could be you need to use it a few times more and then put it back?

[Volvobrick]

36 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

Done, but still trip once the ground fitted back in. There's no element breakage in the heating element itself because during the heating up when the grounding was remove, I can see the whole heating element glowing red, there's no part that didn't glowing.

The element itself is probably no good - current is leaking (even minutely) to the exterior of the element and into the chassis/earth, causing the trip at the ELCB. 

If you know what you are doing, yes, remove earth each time you use the oven. If not, better repair or replace. 

Mine is a microwave/grill/convection. Only trips when using convection which I use only once every few months. So not yet decided to replace. I want to replace the heating element but can't find online. 

[Hamburger]

Best is invite the electrician over for a bbq and ask him to place his hand on the chasis at all time. 

 

Enjoy the free bbq while he can. 

[t0y0ta]

47 minutes ago, Hamburger said:

Best is invite the electrician over for a bbq and ask him to place his hand on the chasis at all time. 

 

Enjoy the free bbq while he can. 

Your lives and the economic cost of fire, hospitalization, perm paralysis etc is thousands times more than the money spent for new heating element or new oven.

Never save money on such situations.

[Hamburger]

@t0y0ta 

I once had a Tefal bbq stove. Used it once and kept it for a year before bringing out to use again. 

 

Next thing I know bbq become steamboat and the Tefal went into the dustbin. 

Looks like a common issue for most grill pit running on electricity.