My built-in oven trip the house power supply

[Volvobrick]

20 minutes ago, Hamburger said:

@t0y0ta 

I once had a Tefal bbq stove. Used it once and kept it for a year before bringing out to use again. 

 

Next thing I know bbq become steamboat and the Tefal went into the dustbin. 

Looks like a common issue for most grill pit running on electricity. 

I think I have a similar one in the storeroom. And a Korean hotplate cum centre steamboat. Both not seen for years. Now back to a small small Jipun charcoal type grill to slowly cook the wagyu. 

[Bluepica]

@Arogab 

thx bro for replying.

he really cut off the earth wire and connect the chassis to the brown neutral wire. I test the plug with a multimeter between the neutral and the oven body, it’s 0 ohm! And that’s already confirmed by him when he says the body is tied to neutral. If there is current leakage , it will trip the breaker too (live touches neutral).

rewind back, before he came to fix, the oven trip the blue ELCB, not the main breaker after few minutes heating up the oven.  Fast forward, now he have revert back the earth wire to the chassis after my request, about safety. He said I Google too much info and scare myself…. “Roll eye”

now the oven will trip the ELCB again even I have heated the oven more than an hour during the absent of the earth grounding. 

[Arogab]

10 hours ago, Bluepica said:

@Arogab 

thx bro for replying.

he really cut off the earth wire and connect the chassis to the brown neutral wire. I test the plug with a multimeter between the neutral and the oven body, it’s 0 ohm! And that’s already confirmed by him when he says the body is tied to neutral. If there is current leakage , it will trip the breaker too (live touches neutral).

rewind back, before he came to fix, the oven trip the blue ELCB, not the main breaker after few minutes heating up the oven.  Fast forward, now he have revert back the earth wire to the chassis after my request, about safety. He said I Google too much info and scare myself…. “Roll eye”

now the oven will trip the ELCB again even I have heated the oven more than an hour during the absent of the earth grounding. 

This I am more confuse. Brown usually is another replacement of Red which suppose to be live. What are the 3 colors you have? 

In general - Live and neutral are to be connect is a circuit within the casing for the heater to work. Casing is then protected by the earth

HDB - All Single Phase, if normal, it should be Live (Red), Neutral (Black), Earth (Yellow and Green)

Condo - Some has 3 phase - several colors but similar with Live as (Red, Yellow or Blue)

But in your case, the oven and plug already settle outside the main circuit, what are the 3 colors your plug cable to the oven?

No one connect Neutral to casing is 100% right, but the oven should not work. As I said, Neutral is the return path of the live.

[RH1667]

i just threw my table top oven yesterday after replacing it with an Air fryer.

Same problem of tripping my ELCB.

Anyway, very long did not use it. 

[Bluepica]

10 hours ago, Arogab said:

This I am more confuse. Brown usually is another replacement of Red which suppose to be live. What are the 3 colors you have? 

In general - Live and neutral are to be connect is a circuit within the casing for the heater to work. Casing is then protected by the earth

HDB - All Single Phase, if normal, it should be Live (Red), Neutral (Black), Earth (Yellow and Green)

Condo - Some has 3 phase - several colors but similar with Live as (Red, Yellow or Blue)

But in your case, the oven and plug already settle outside the main circuit, what are the 3 colors your plug cable to the oven?

No one connect Neutral to casing is 100% right, but the oven should not work. As I said, Neutral is the return path of the live.

new color coding for my oven live- brown, neutral-blue, earth - yellow/green

yes, like you said, it's not right to connect oven chasis to neutral, but this is what the handy man did. Since there is some current leaking (i presumed) that causes the oven to trip during use, he removed the earth wire from the oven and bond the chasis to neutral - blue.  (or black in your case). He rational is, even without the earth wire, if there is any current leakage (live) to the chasis (short-circuit), this will also trip the breaker.

But my argument is that if there is some error connection in the wall socket or extension wire use (change of polarity of the outlet) then the chasis might be electrify by the live wire.

And this kind of fixing the trip problem is totally wrong and unacceptable.

Anyway, now the connection has been reverted back to original circuit.

I have remove the earth from the extension wire and try heating up the oven for a few days to see if the moisture problem that causes the tripping will go away or not before going to the last try of using hair dryer.

I know it's safer to buy a new oven or replacing the element, but the same problem will come back come I don't really use the oven that often. Moreover is not a cheap bread toaster that I should just dump it away and sending back to agent is not even worth the effort or monetary wise.

[Arogab]

12 hours ago, Bluepica said:

new color coding for my oven live- brown, neutral-blue, earth - yellow/green

yes, like you said, it's not right to connect oven chasis to neutral, but this is what the handy man did. Since there is some current leaking (i presumed) that causes the oven to trip during use, he removed the earth wire from the oven and bond the chasis to neutral - blue.  (or black in your case). He rational is, even without the earth wire, if there is any current leakage (live) to the chasis (short-circuit), this will also trip the breaker.

But my argument is that if there is some error connection in the wall socket or extension wire use (change of polarity of the outlet) then the chasis might be electrify by the live wire.

And this kind of fixing the trip problem is totally wrong and unacceptable.

Anyway, now the connection has been reverted back to original circuit.

I have remove the earth from the extension wire and try heating up the oven for a few days to see if the moisture problem that causes the tripping will go away or not before going to the last try of using hair dryer.

I know it's safer to buy a new oven or replacing the element, but the same problem will come back come I don't really use the oven that often. Moreover is not a cheap bread toaster that I should just dump it away and sending back to agent is not even worth the effort or monetary wise.

So now the only thing to me is connecting the neutral to the casing will not work. Unless the only clear understanding is that the Neutral at the heater is already badly leaking onto the chassis that there is no difference where is is placed after removing the earth.

So now you reverted back and then also remove the earth. It does not trip, it is correct. But never touch the chassis if my above analysis is correct. 

End of the day, I am an license electrical worker but not in this trade, just hope not only you, no one else should touch it. The design of the heater originally should not allow water to get in and short or leak. If it happen once , it happen twice. Bro, think twice and thrice. it is not worth saving the money. Got to make that decision and don't let unauthorized handy many do it

[Bluepica]

Finally, the oven works without tripping.

It took me 2 weeks to turn on the oven at grill mode 110 degree celcius daily for an hour without grounding. I check once after a week with earth wire connected back, it trips.

Today, I put back the earth wire and use it for more than an hour with different mode at 200 degree celcius, no tripping liao. 

[Arogab]

24 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

Finally, the oven works without tripping.

It took me 2 weeks to turn on the oven at grill mode 110 degree celcius daily for an hour without grounding. I check once after a week with earth wire connected back, it trips.

Today, I put back the earth wire and use it for more than an hour with different mode at 200 degree celcius, no tripping liao. 

Bro, then this proof that water gets in. Not suppose to. And make sure ground is put back properly and be careful of water and moisture. Good luck

[cmdsea]

@Arogab Its not water like dripping from a tap, its just high humidity in the air. The element contains a silica (sand..) sheath and the slight dampness will eventually allow a leakage current to occur if its not in regular use. Just remember to switch the appliance on for 15 minutes once per month if its not in regular use and this will be enough to keep it functioning correctly...

[Mkl22]

31 minutes ago, Bluepica said:

Finally, the oven works without tripping.

It took me 2 weeks to turn on the oven at grill mode 110 degree celcius daily for an hour without grounding. I check once after a week with earth wire connected back, it trips.

Today, I put back the earth wire and use it for more than an hour with different mode at 200 degree celcius, no tripping liao. 

yup... congrats. had the same experience, only that i remembered to put back the ground after a few months

[Mkl22]

On 9/15/2021 at 8:21 PM, Bluepica said:

new color coding for my oven live- brown, neutral-blue, earth - yellow/green

yes, like you said, it's not right to connect oven chasis to neutral, but this is what the handy man did. Since there is some current leaking (i presumed) that causes the oven to trip during use, he removed the earth wire from the oven and bond the chasis to neutral - blue.  (or black in your case). He rational is, even without the earth wire, if there is any current leakage (live) to the chasis (short-circuit), this will also trip the breaker.

But my argument is that if there is some error connection in the wall socket or extension wire use (change of polarity of the outlet) then the chasis might be electrify by the live wire.

And this kind of fixing the trip problem is totally wrong and unacceptable.

Anyway, now the connection has been reverted back to original circuit.

I have remove the earth from the extension wire and try heating up the oven for a few days to see if the moisture problem that causes the tripping will go away or not before going to the last try of using hair dryer.

I know it's safer to buy a new oven or replacing the element, but the same problem will come back come I don't really use the oven that often. Moreover is not a cheap bread toaster that I should just dump it away and sending back to agent is not even worth the effort or monetary wise.

this idiot handy man for sure no electrical license. typical hack job... probably cut from the same mold as the Stars Engineering jokers who anyhow weld and hack to fix stuff. sigh🤕

[Arogab]

14 minutes ago, cmdsea said:

@Arogab Its not water like dripping from a tap, its just high humidity in the air. The element contains a silica (sand..) sheath and the slight dampness will eventually allow a leakage current to occur if its not in regular use. Just remember to switch the appliance on for 15 minutes once per month if its not in regular use and this will be enough to keep it functioning correctly...

Let's hope so. That why I use the word moisture. Anyway, it'd still be safe with the earth wire on the casing. That is compulsory for safety.

[mersaylee]

Don't have an oven but curious how it'd trip the circuit due to moisture...remove earth? Isn't that dangerous to do so? 

A colleague had frequent trips and was pointed to faulty socket right behind the oven...

Is it advisable to relocate the oven or use a further away socket? 

Edited September 24, 2021 by mersaylee

[Arogab]

35 minutes ago, mersaylee said:

Don't have an oven but curious how it'd trip the circuit due to moisture...remove earth? Isn't that dangerous to do so? 

A colleague had frequent trips and was pointed to faulty socket right behind the oven...

Is it advisable to relocate the oven or use a further away socket? 

Moisture as in water does conduct minor electricity. The trip if by the blue switch on your circuit breaker is call ELCB as in Earth Leakage Circuit breaker. At minor leak, it will trip. Ever wonder using your fan and get minor electric short when you touch the grill? That is also because the fans got no earth wire. So ELCB is for safety. 

I donno your colleague's issue But this can happen commonly with ovens. Having longer wire and moving further away may just work that little bit as ELCB is sensitive. But if it trips frequently, it is better to check in details and rectify

[Kb27]

44 minutes ago, mersaylee said:

Don't have an oven but curious how it'd trip the circuit due to moisture...remove earth? Isn't that dangerous to do so? 

A colleague had frequent trips and was pointed to faulty socket right behind the oven...

Is it advisable to relocate the oven or use a further away socket? 

My theory - in any oven there's heating element. Heating element has wires live/neutral to heat it up. But you don't see the wires, they are often hidden inside the oven casing. Problem is our weather is humid. The oven casing when not used is cold, it tends to collect moisture when there's no free flow of air.

Then suddenly you want to use the oven, you switch it on. The moisture caused a tiny flow of current (leakage) from live/neutral of the heating element to the casing, which is earthed. ELCB or RCCB in our home detects that current, approximately 30mA (its sensitivity), and then it trips.

That's why some joker suggest removing the earth wire (bypassing the ELCB/RCCB), which is intended to be a safety thing, but is a dangerous thing to do.

The correct solution is removing that moisturized air around the heating element wires, which is why a hairdryer is suggested, pointing at the right place.

This is assuming the heating element is in good condition.

[Kb27]

There's another situation where the wires insulation is damaged and that's trips the circuit breaker. 

It happens to my fridge (opposite of oven). In almost every fridge, there's a heater inside. It's timed to turn on every 8 hrs or so (auto-defrost) to melt the ice forming on the cooling coil. If your heater is spoiled, ice build up and blocked the cooling coil. Then you have no cold air circulation and your fridge side starts getting warmer. In my case, the heater insulation was broken and it leaks small current which trips the circuit breaker. I had no choice but to replace the heater.

[Will_I_Am]

My Oven ... zzzz 😁

 

 

[BanCoe]

Someone mentioned putting coal to dry out the oven after prolonged non use, hence tripping ….. will it help ??