Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 11:07 AM, Lala81 said: Why no where to hide. Only if u have awacs then no where to hide. The very first mission would be to take out the "searchlights". And keep taking them out. But yes visual observation of the planes taking off from airfields is an issue here. Actually on 2nd thought. Almost all these strike ops will take place at night. Basically observers across the border or in sg can't see shit anyway. ↡ Advertisement 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watwheels Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 10:59 AM, Beregond said: I not expert, but i feel using f35 stealth ability in our situation is like using a sniper in a field with no where to hide. Or in a room where every 1 can see every 1. I dunno, I just read and watch YT videos. The "beyond visual range" means the F35 pilot can see the enemy plane on its radar, target it and shoot a missile at it with both planes so far they couldnt see one another. To put it simply powerful radar, powerful targeting system and high tech missile. With stealth the enemy might not know the F35 is already up in the sky. So it can sneak up far enough to fire a air to air missile. In the sky nothing for anyone to hide. Actually if you saw the latest top gun movie the 5th gen Russian fighter no need to get so up close for a dog fight. It can actually fly off into the distance and fire a missile at the F14 and win. I think the doctrine has to change with such capabilities. What I also read is that the F35 can target and fire a missile at the enemy even when its back is facing the enemy plane. Not just the hardware but software improvement over last gen fighters. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 Many ways to play this. For example. Everyone knows u need to take out the awacs. So opposing airforce will certainly try. One awacs with a constant 2 x f15 air support. But ah what if u have another 2 x f35 loitering in a different much wider vector. Enemy tries to drive in with say 8 fighters. Awac knows this, additional fighters scrambled from sg. Then the 2 x f15 move up to intercept. Enemy decide not worth it. Turn away... Enemy thinks its a draw. Then the f35 come into the game cos they are silent and only directed in by awacs giving them the vector and already placed them into the likely retreat path of the enemy. They don't need theeir own radar or anything at all. As u can see, with stealth, the possibilities expand. And one side without will have lot more headache. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 (edited) Anyway if u can't see how a stealthy plane is effective. I guess only aviators or people who read about aerial wars understand how it's different from a land or sea battle. One major reason why Japan lost at the battle of midway (other than luck and intelligence favoring the Americans) was that their admiral in charge was a battleship guy and didn't understand how naval aviation really works. If the person in charge was the admiral in charge of pearl Harbour raid, history may have been different. Edited February 27, 2023 by Lala81 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beregond Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 11:29 AM, Watwheels said: I dunno, I just read and watch YT videos. The "beyond visual range" means the F35 pilot can see the enemy plane on its radar, target it and shoot a missile at it with both planes so far they couldnt see one another. To put it simply powerful radar, powerful targeting system and high tech missile. With stealth the enemy might not know the F35 is already up in the sky. So it can sneak up far enough to fire a air to air missile. In the sky nothing for anyone to hide. Actually if you saw the latest top gun movie the 5th gen Russian fighter no need to get so up close for a dog fight. It can actually fly off into the distance and fire a missile at the F14 and win. I think the doctrine has to change with such capabilities. What I also read is that the F35 can target and fire a missile at the enemy even when its back is facing the enemy plane. Not just the hardware but software improvement over last gen fighters. I not expert. but stealth dun mean cannot detect, just need to be close enough, even far away can spot, but the signal is very small, could be mistaken for birds etc. Sg is so close to our suppose ' enemy' a few km away, its extremely congested in our very limited air space. Can our plane take off in secret with their radar within like 20-30 km away and fly across without them knowing?? is stealth really that power? and radar really that weak? I dun know. But i doubt so. say there are enemy plane around, once we fly up into the air, we are already almost right in dog fight range, consider the speed of fighter jet. Its like taking a sniper rifle to fight with my neighbour right beside me with a m16?? That how I feel. We cannot put the scenario we see in movie or other parts of the world to compare to sg . we are only longest 50km wide?. opposite side can have a radar within 30km of sg air field. Maybe they want buy a few like 8 ? 10? still acceptable to me, change whole fleet. ? sound bad to me. Put all this aside, f35 still fall far short of the mission capable rating of 80% for US themself. Currently its only 69%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playtime Twincharged February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 Very good channel. Explaining various battles in a way those who played C&C, STARCRAFT etc will easily digest. At night when family asleep, if you free, grab a drink, pick the battles you interested in, relax. https://youtube.com/@TheOperationsRoom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvobrick Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 10:18 AM, Beregond said: Operating cost is about 100% more then f16. Its record in dog fight is extremely poor, cos its not even suppose to engage in dogfight. design to take down enemy before even spotted. But I look at the map and sea plus air space around SG, not really much space to use the stealth effectively Stealth is for element of surprise, I dun think such element exists in the sea/air space around sg ( in defence sense ) Unless we talking about flying f35 undetected into enemy land for strike . Last dogfight was in 1991. If you are stealth, I guess you can be a slow and big as a C130 and just launch missiles and win! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watwheels Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 12:02 PM, Beregond said: I not expert. but stealth dun mean cannot detect, just need to be close enough, even far away can spot, but the signal is very small, could be mistaken for birds etc. Sg is so close to our suppose ' enemy' a few km away, its extremely congested in our very limited air space. Can our plane take off in secret with their radar within like 20-30 km away and fly across without them knowing?? is stealth really that power? and radar really that weak? I dun know. But i doubt so. say there are enemy plane around, once we fly up into the air, we are already almost right in dog fight range, consider the speed of fighter jet. Its like taking a sniper rifle to fight with my neighbour right beside me with a m16?? That how I feel. We cannot put the scenario we see in movie or other parts of the world to compare to sg . we are only longest 50km wide?. opposite side can have a radar within 30km of sg air field. Maybe they want buy a few like 8 ? 10? still acceptable to me, change whole fleet. ? sound bad to me. Put all this aside, f35 still fall far short of the mission capable rating of 80% for US themself. Currently its only 69%. That's how the training doctrine comes into play. We wont know as most likely it is be classified as secret. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustank Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 Buy buy buy lazada sale 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watwheels Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 I think ppl misunderstand and see this stealth plane fleet as replacement to older fleets in our arsenal. I dont think so. There's budget also for the airforce, it is not a BlackFriday sale. Then there is the surrounding countries airforce to consider what kinda threat they pose. They are not so up to date as well. Our F16s and F15s still have roles to play. They are not obsolete. Moreover planes alone dont win a fight. We have allies too. They might have more toys in their arsenal. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3badge 6th Gear February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 (edited) On 2/27/2023 at 12:02 PM, Beregond said: I not expert. but stealth dun mean cannot detect, just need to be close enough, even far away can spot, but the signal is very small, could be mistaken for birds etc. Sg is so close to our suppose ' enemy' a few km away, its extremely congested in our very limited air space. Can our plane take off in secret with their radar within like 20-30 km away and fly across without them knowing?? is stealth really that power? and radar really that weak? I dun know. But i doubt so. say there are enemy plane around, once we fly up into the air, we are already almost right in dog fight range, consider the speed of fighter jet. Its like taking a sniper rifle to fight with my neighbour right beside me with a m16?? That how I feel. We cannot put the scenario we see in movie or other parts of the world to compare to sg . we are only longest 50km wide?. opposite side can have a radar within 30km of sg air field. Maybe they want buy a few like 8 ? 10? still acceptable to me, change whole fleet. ? sound bad to me. Put all this aside, f35 still fall far short of the mission capable rating of 80% for US themself. Currently its only 69%. It is not meant to fight in SG air with Malaysia or Indonesia, it is meant for South China Sea! Certain things no need to say until very clear.🤫 Edited February 27, 2023 by D3badge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playtime Twincharged February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 1:06 PM, Watwheels said: I think ppl misunderstand and see this stealth plane fleet as replacement to older fleets in our arsenal. I dont think so. There's budget also for the airforce, it is not a BlackFriday sale. Then there is the surrounding countries airforce to consider what kinda threat they pose. They are not so up to date as well. Our F16s and F15s still have roles to play. They are not obsolete. Moreover planes alone dont win a fight. We have allies too. They might have more toys in their arsenal. Before Ukraine, the ever increasing entry of the SU27 family in the region made me think the F15 may be losing is qualitative edge. Now I think maybe not. Best possible match now seems against rafale. Which the F35 should counter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrosszero Turbocharged February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 12:02 PM, Beregond said: I not expert. but stealth dun mean cannot detect, just need to be close enough, even far away can spot, but the signal is very small, could be mistaken for birds etc. Sg is so close to our suppose ' enemy' a few km away, its extremely congested in our very limited air space. Can our plane take off in secret with their radar within like 20-30 km away and fly across without them knowing?? is stealth really that power? and radar really that weak? I dun know. But i doubt so. say there are enemy plane around, once we fly up into the air, we are already almost right in dog fight range, consider the speed of fighter jet. Its like taking a sniper rifle to fight with my neighbour right beside me with a m16?? That how I feel. We cannot put the scenario we see in movie or other parts of the world to compare to sg . we are only longest 50km wide?. opposite side can have a radar within 30km of sg air field. Maybe they want buy a few like 8 ? 10? still acceptable to me, change whole fleet. ? sound bad to me. Put all this aside, f35 still fall far short of the mission capable rating of 80% for US themself. Currently its only 69%. You keep parroting “I not expert” yet your detailed arguments have so many blind spots it feels like you’re trolling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 12:21 PM, Volvobrick said: Last dogfight was in 1991. If you are stealth, I guess you can be a slow and big as a C130 and just launch missiles and win! China has some stealth drones already. Shaped like small b2. I'm guessing USA also has them in development or some use. I would be very surprised if sg doesn't have them or isn't in the process of getting them from USA or Israel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 8:38 PM, D3badge said: It is not meant to fight in SG air with Malaysia or Indonesia, it is meant for South China Sea! Certain things no need to say until very clear.🤫 Siao lah. Those cannot fight one lah. U know how many fighters they have. Only the two giants can fight each other. Our airplanes is just for self protection only. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrosszero Turbocharged February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 10:15 PM, Lala81 said: Our weapons are just for deterrence only. Corrected for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mersaylee Supersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 10:15 PM, Lala81 said: Siao lah. Those cannot fight one lah. U know how many fighters they have. Only the two giants can fight each other. Our airplanes is just for self protection only. I thot for the spectacular IG only 😁 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala81 Hypersonic February 27, 2023 Share February 27, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 10:33 PM, mersaylee said: I thot for the spectacular IG only 😁 Lol. The amount of hours they train for this alone is probably a big chunk of flight time comparable to part of our neighbours' pilots training schedule. ↡ Advertisement 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In NowRelated Discussions
Related Discussions
Military Talk Thread Part 2
Military Talk Thread Part 2
Military talk thread
Military talk thread
F-35 fighter jet will have a new worthy competitor
F-35 fighter jet will have a new worthy competitor
Japanese F-35 fighter jet missing
Japanese F-35 fighter jet missing
Killing a bird for "eyeing" his lunch
Killing a bird for "eyeing" his lunch
Security Guard takes down "MMA fighter" in condo (Malaysia)
Security Guard takes down "MMA fighter" in condo (Malaysia)
F-16 pilot almost died..his plane saved him.
F-16 pilot almost died..his plane saved him.