Vulcann 6th Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 (edited) Jokes aside I am not sure if modern complicated assault rifles are able to tahan the rigours of the field and able to fire under harsh conditions. Granted the venerable AK47 or its many variants is not reputed to be a accurate weapon but its simplicity in design, ease of maintenance and being cheap does play a big part why it is still the favourite of many nations till this day. Plus its 7.62mm calibre packs quite a punch compared to our smaller 5.56mm rounds. Detractors will no doubt say a heavily loaded rifleman with all his gear can carry more 5.56mm rounds than the heavier and larger 7.62mm rounds but in a fire-fight I think the outcome do tilt the balance to the side with bigger, more powerful weapons yes? Edited March 17, 2013 by Vulcann ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tireburner 3rd Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 I think more like Steyr started the trend of the mag at the rear design which started all the copying by others...... Steyr started this concept way back in the 70s'. Saw its' "first" action in Die Hard 1 with the bad guys from East Germany used them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymondism Twincharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 SAR21 Is safer... I know of a guy who triggered the first chamber explosion He was unhurt.... Not so sure if M16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happily1986 5th Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 SAR21 Is safer... I know of a guy who triggered the first chamber explosion He was unhurt.... Not so sure if M16 hmmm good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 (edited) SAR21 Is safer... I know of a guy who triggered the first chamber explosion He was unhurt.... Not so sure if M16 SAR-21 has patented to have a protective Kelvar cover embedded in the internal casing which houses the bolt-carrier group. This prevented injury in the event of a chamber explosion. Clearly for that lucky SOB's case, this feature saved him. It's the first rifle in the world to have such "safety" feature....I'd say it's a must for an Armed Forces with goondu NSF/NSmen like us....lol The only drawback it's embedded inside the rifle so you sacrifice the bolt switching feature that allow the weapon to fire ambidextrously. That's why SAF forces the lefties to learn how to fire from the right side.... Edited March 17, 2013 by Pocus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridrium 1st Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 In summary, peacetime training - take M16, lighter. In wartime - take SAR21, heavier but more reliable and may save your life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Sar 21=weapon designed in a lab that is great for the lab and range, but stupid on the field. Typical of what our local scholars do. It is a weapon that has a natural aura that attracts extra duties. It got even more silly when they decided to include a m203 launcher on the sar21. Hating a weapon just because of "guard duties" and "being heavy" is very superficial when this weapon can easily protect you effectively during wartime. And if you don't know the history of how this weapon is conceived I suggest you don't anyhow TC. I think most would know that the SAR-21 and Israeli's TAR-21 were a collaboration that took a different direction at somepoint of time during it's development. The Israelis, having so much experience in armed conflicts, wanted a weapon to be versatile and combat effective. On the other hand ST and SAF wanted a weapon that is cheaper, that is idiot proof and puts safety and easy weapon handlings as top priority for a conscript armed force. Hence the TAR-21 and SAR-21 is born. The SAR21 was released in 1999 and it took the Israelis a year to perfect the TAR21. The thing is the Israelis have been fighting armed conflicts since the induction of TAR21 and have made many improvements to the weapon even when the 1st batch performed "flawlessly". SAF, being only a conscript army will have to make do with the one and only version of SAR21. ST did built the SAR21A to address many issues faced with the SAR21. In fact the SAR21A have all the features of the TAR21...but sadly SAF choose not to adopt the weapon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 (edited) my friend told me he fired using his SAR till the grip actually started to melt. I would think that the grip reached its glass transition temperature rather. I rather use the M16 Your friend has a Cool Story Bro.. Edited March 17, 2013 by Pocus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Steyr started this concept way back in the 70s'. Saw its' "first" action in Die Hard 1 with the bad guys from East Germany used them. I think Steyr AUG is one of the most successful Bullpup weapons (Magazine behind trigger) to date. It's so good The Aussie took it and use it until now. Even our friends up north using it....(It's strange cos the MAF announced they switching from AUG to M4 but recent Sulu incident they still using AUG, they like logistically messy) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPunto Neutral Newbie March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 how the angmo managed to get our weapons to their countries? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Jokes aside I am not sure if modern complicated assault rifles are able to tahan the rigours of the field and able to fire under harsh conditions. Granted the venerable AK47 or its many variants is not reputed to be a accurate weapon but its simplicity in design, ease of maintenance and being cheap does play a big part why it is still the favourite of many nations till this day. Plus its 7.62mm calibre packs quite a punch compared to our smaller 5.56mm rounds. Detractors will no doubt say a heavily loaded rifleman with all his gear can carry more 5.56mm rounds than the heavier and larger 7.62mm rounds but in a fire-fight I think the outcome do tilt the balance to the side with bigger, more powerful weapons yes? Actually alot of people got the misconception that 7.62mmx 39mm rounds from the AK47 packs more punch. But in fact the 7.62mm round from the AK-47 has a shorter range due to it's weight. We all know from NS the effective range of a 5.56mm ball round is around 400m for an M16 and SAR21. The AK-47 just manages 300m. The 7.62mm of the AK-47 has to be aimed higher than usual to hit it's target so the trajetory is more curve than a 5.56mm. That's all apart from a heavier barrel and heavy combat load. That's one of the reason why Russia ditched the AK-47 and adopt the smaller calibre AK-74 instead. BUT BUT BUT....the 7.62mm round from NATO (7.62mmx51mm used for our GPMG)...that's a different story..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member69 1st Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 my friend told me he fired using his SAR till the grip actually started to melt. I would think that the grip reached its glass transition temperature rather. I rather use the M16 your friend damn tua kang.there's once we need to last min stand in as aggressor and our sar need special appearance and use for suppress fire instead of usual mg.6 mag full and all expended by 1st contact. your friend got tell u he needs to carry extra barrel for his sar also bor?hahaha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 how the angmo managed to get our weapons to their countries? Our weapons were licensed to sell in their domestic market. I read somewhere, with the right license and in the right US state, you can buy a SAR-21 (with a heavier barrel and faster rate of fire than our SAF version) for USD $1500 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk 1st Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Still prefer M16. As SAR 21 parade is damn xiong....BTW I think this video has been posted before. Anyone can confirm I 2nd you, I like M16 the best. SAR21 heavy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiadaw 6th Gear March 17, 2013 Author Share March 17, 2013 I think the SAR 21 is a good weapon, we should be proud. I am just wondering if we should focus on this field instead of dying leg of some lower end manufacturing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocus Turbocharged March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Look! SAR-21 is featured in the film, Looper. Too bad the Bruce Willies character chose the FN P90 and left the SAR-21 at the wall in the Background...lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superyandao 1st Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 you mean lefties must shoot with right hand? wtf? can not even draw a straight line properly using non master hand but asked to use this chiu cheng hand to shoot enemies? i see the cartridge ejecting just beside the face already wondering how lefties can shoot or the deflector is designed. well done! force the human to adapt to the tool and not refine the tool to suit the human. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcann 6th Gear March 17, 2013 Share March 17, 2013 Actually alot of people got the misconception that 7.62mmx 39mm rounds from the AK47 packs more punch. But in fact the 7.62mm round from the AK-47 has a shorter range due to it's weight. We all know from NS the effective range of a 5.56mm ball round is around 400m for an M16 and SAR21. The AK-47 just manages 300m. The 7.62mm of the AK-47 has to be aimed higher than usual to hit it's target so the trajetory is more curve than a 5.56mm. That's all apart from a heavier barrel and heavy combat load. That's one of the reason why Russia ditched the AK-47 and adopt the smaller calibre AK-74 instead. BUT BUT BUT....the 7.62mm round from NATO (7.62mmx51mm used for our GPMG)...that's a different story..... Well from 300m away, unless one has a scope the famous Figure 11 target looks like a pin head through our beloved M-16's iron sights down at the range. As far as a normal rifleman is concerned any hostiles beyond that range is quite difficult to hit especially under wartime conditions so IMHO the AK is well suited for its role liao, granted it is already well known to be not a accurate rifle in the first place. Besides if every soldier in a combat zone can shoot as well as they do during peace time in a controlled environment at the range then their enemies will have been cut down in platoon or company strength in no time. Packing a punch in the sense that the bigger 7.62mm ball round tip can cause more damage than the smaller 5.56mm counterpart. Just my two cents ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In NowRelated Discussions
Related Discussions
Crazy weather in Singapore ?
Crazy weather in Singapore ?
SIM Only Mobile Plans Discussion
SIM Only Mobile Plans Discussion
Singapore Property Scene Discussion
Singapore Property Scene Discussion
A New Chapter - Skoda Singapore
A New Chapter - Skoda Singapore
OFFICIAL: Tesla Singapore Discussion
OFFICIAL: Tesla Singapore Discussion
S’pore May Use Nuclear Energy By 2050, Cites Improvements In Safety & Reliability
S’pore May Use Nuclear Energy By 2050, Cites Improvements In Safety & Reliability
18 students, 3 adults killed in Texas elementary school shooting!!!
18 students, 3 adults killed in Texas elementary school shooting!!!
National Service in Singapore
National Service in Singapore