Are Singaporean workers... expensive & entitled?

[Somewhat1975]

come across this article about "strawberry" generation . It was written by a old taiwanese professor. Sorry, it is in chinese. google tranlate is here if you need help

 

Disclaimer: My refrain from blaming the young generation does not mean that I am one of them. I am just a middle age man trying to understand the plight faced by the young generation.

 

original post

草莓族，或被犧牲的一代？──台灣的案例

最近媒體大肆宣傳各種就業機會，製造一種印象：工作機會很多，是年輕人期望太高。名嘴則大談自己當年如何艱苦地不計較待遇，陳鳳馨乾脆希望學校要教學生「正確的工作態度」。所以，年輕一代是草莓族？咎由自取？

 

我在上一篇文章「我們被騙了三十年！談全球性的青年困境」裡用美國為例說明過去三十年的新自由主義要為全球性的青年困境負起主要責任。現在這一篇文章要用台灣的社會狀況說明這一代的年輕人是如何被上一代犧牲掉的。

 

四、五年級的會用自己年輕時的狀況質問六、七年級的說：我們年輕時當黑手、水電工、廚房小工都願意，你們現在為什麼不願意？這個問題是嚴重忽略了兩個世代許多社會與經濟背景的差異，問題出在忽視了「問題脈絡的差異性」。

 

二、三十年前房價沒有炒到這麼離譜，年輕人所要擔負的儲蓄能力沒有這麼高，名嘴當人會比較容易看到未來。而把房價炒高的正是名嘴的世代和他們的學長姐（四、五年級的），所以說六、七年級看不到未來是因為被四、五年級的陷害。

 

二、三十年前沒有紅豆食府和連鎖餐廳，任何人當了廚房小工或端盤子的，出師之後就有機會自己當老闆──他們願意吃苦，因為只要努力就可以出頭天。現在連鎖餐飲林立，中高價位餐廳競爭激烈，四、五年級的霸佔了餐飲業最肥的一塊，年輕人當過廚房小工之後要想自立門戶的話，只能跟已經快要倒店的其他自助餐店競爭，或者永遠在餐廳當被苦勞，永遠沒有出頭的日子。

 

二、三十年前沒有大賣場和全國電子，水電工出師後可以自己做水電行或者電器行，自己當老闆。他們願意吃苦，因為有一天可以出頭天。現在有了大賣場和全國電子，水電工只能當一輩子奴工，看不到前景，不敢想像能靠自己的積蓄買房子。

 

三十年來台灣所有的產業規模都在大吃小的過程中擴大，使得利潤和控制權迅速地集中在少數人手中，使得年輕人失去了往上流動的管道，成為永遠的奴工；而得利的少數人又通過政商勾結把得到的財富拿去炒作房地產，使得年輕人更加看不到未來。

 

對於年輕一代而言，買房子要靠爸媽，創業要靠爸媽的資本和人脈；政府部門的服務愈少，各種資源的世襲現象愈嚴重；連黑道的民代席次都已經是世襲的了。過去三十年來台灣從「所有人都可以出頭」的社會變成今天「不靠爸媽買不起房子」，台灣社會不幸地從「政權世襲而資本不世襲」退化成「政權空洞化的資本獨裁世襲制」，我們其實是在往新封建主義的路上一路走了三十年，社會是退步而非進步的。

 

這叫做新封建制度：四、五年級的霸佔了市場上最豐厚的利潤，霸佔了產官學研的最高決策與資源；甚至相互勾結成產官學研的利益共犯集團，壟斷掉所有的政經資源和發言權而成為絕對的統治階級；而六、七年級的只能在底下當一輩子奴工，不但無法出頭天，還要被媒體抹黑成草莓族，把一切的責任當賴到他們頭上。

 

如果這樣的社會叫做公平，哲學系、政治系和社會系的教授都可以去跳海了！

 

但是哲學系、政治系和社會系的教授如果認為這樣的社會不公平，就不該佔著毛坑不拉屎，而要大聲站出來說話！大學教授的首要責任不是發表 SSCI 論文或拿國科會傑出獎，而是要說出社會哪裡有問題，要如何解決！

 

妳如果喜歡這一篇，一定要接著看上一篇「我們被騙了三十年！談全球性的青年困境」，可以讓你更清楚整個問題的背景，以及為什麼歐美國家的青年普遍地失業率這麼高。

[Coolad]

Ok ok timeout folks

 

 

Before this becomes ego bashing war n I hv to close

 

No worries.. I like the replies and exchanges... though some may benefit with abit of tact so as not to sound like out to draw blood.... but still we get peek how others think....

 

I put no blood in the water though... rest assure....

[Enye]

I bought my first property in 2003 during Sars and property prices were very depressed and if one is willing to take risk and buy a few during that time , they would have made alot of money simply by sitting on it and collecting rent. The thing is what to invest and when and not think and sit on your plans.

 

Those you mentioned that will be in trouble are the ones which over leveraged themselves. These people would be the ones most affected by a recession but this can happen both rich and poor. The rich or elite which have fully paid their assets can sit there and wait it out while the poor which are debt cannot.

 

you were young then. did you lose your job or fear losing your job when you bought your 1st property?

 

did you have a family to fend for when you bought your property?

 

in the throes of recession, a family man with kids would rather keep cash because he fears losing his job and wonder whether if he can make it last till it ends.

 

investments in distressed assets would be the last thing on his mind

 

debt would make the situation worse but it does not mean no debt one is able to invest without thinking as you proclaim.

 

 

 

[CH_CO]

come across this article about "strawberry" generation . It was written by a old taiwanese professor. Sorry, it is in chinese. google tranlate is here if you need help

 

Disclaimer: My refrain from blaming the young generation does not mean that I am one of them. I am just a middle age man trying to understand the plight faced by the young generation.

 

Want to understand them, simple , work , talk and mix with them. That said , the example i have mentioned is common , simply for the fact that they have not faced hardship in any point of their lifes and in the event of a major economic breakdown , they would be the first to blame everyone for their own demise as shown in my example. Should i have reported him to MAS , he can forget about staying the finance line , sometimes it is just as harsh as that but i didn't , simply telling to redo everything and re submitting it would have solved it yet he choose not to.

 

If you are what you are , then you should know better than if you do not know how to the rich behaves don't put up post to misrepresent them. Many rich i know are very humble and down to earth , many i know do send their children out to suffer and only take them back when they have gain enough experience to take over their business , reason being , if you cannot survive outside what makes you think my business is safe in your hands?

Edited July 17, 2013 by CH_CO

[CH_CO]

you were young then. did you lose your job or fear losing your job when you bought your 1st property?

 

did you have a family to fend for when you bought your property?

 

in the throes of recession, a family man with kids would rather keep cash because he fears losing his job and wonder whether if he can make it last till it ends.

 

investments in distressed assets would be the last thing on his mind

 

debt would make the situation worse but it does not mean no debt one is able to invest without thinking as you proclaim.

 

 

 

Well i had enough to pay for 3 years for loans in the event of getting losing my job. I was always poor until my siblings started to work , I started working at 9 so fending for family is always part of it. I have done newspaper delivery and putting flyers in mail box to supplement my pocket money. I have understood how it felt to be poor. Basically in the first few years working after education i had saved as much as 70% of my income.

 

Well , if one actually saves 10~15% of whatever he earn irregardless whatever happens it would always be enough. Irregardless how much one earns , as long as they simply live within their means i don't see why they cannot save.

 

I just show a simple example.

 

Assuming if this person is married with kids he would probably worked for 10 year and above.

 

1. Assuming he takes home 1.8k after cpf and saves 180 per month.

 

in ten years = He would have amassed 20k at least. That is on top of whatever he can save if there was a bonus and stuff.

 

I have always advocated savings for rainy days and these money are never to be touched. We only invest the rest of the spare that we can lose.

 

Of course you will tell me not enough and stuff , then not enough work two jobs lor. I had to help out over the weekends in the hawker centre even until now , not that i need the money.

Edited July 17, 2013 by CH_CO

[RadX]

Old Man U v free ah... Nobody to repo today ah.... Lol

[Lethalstrike]

Well i had enough to pay for 3 years for loans in the event of getting losing my job. I was always poor until my siblings started to work , I started working at 9 so fending family is always part of it. Basically in the first few years working after education i had saved as much as 70% of my income.

 

Well , if one actually saves 10~15% of whatever he earn irregardless whatever happens it would always be enough.

 

I just show a simple example.

 

Assuming if this person is married with kids he would probably worked for 10 year and above.

 

1. Assuming he takes home 1.8k after cpf and saves 180 per month.

 

in ten years = He would have amassed 20k at least. That is on top of whatever he can save if there was a bonus and stuff.

 

I have always advocated savings for rainy days and these money are never to be touched. We only invest the rest of the spare that we can lose.

 

Of course you will tell me not enough and stuff , then no enough work two jobs lor. I had to help out over the weekends in the hawker centre even until now.

 

You damn solid man.

 

Already got safety net liao still work at hawker centre.

[CH_CO]

Old Man U v free ah... Nobody to repo today ah.... Lol

 

Sibeh eng , i done my job liaoz , in half year to 2 years alot going to die. Suicide cases gonna increase , you are going to be very busy. My repo done , yours just beginning

Edited July 17, 2013 by CH_CO

[CH_CO]

You damn solid man.

 

Already got safety net liao still work at hawker centre.

 

Parents old don't wanna retire , i lan lan lor. I grew up in a hawker centre , getting my hand dirty is nothing.

Edited July 17, 2013 by CH_CO

[Enye]

Well i had enough to pay for 3 years for loans in the event of getting losing my job. I was always poor until my siblings started to work , I started working at 9 so fending for family is always part of it. I have done newspaper delivery and putting flyers in mail box to supplement my pocket money. I have understood how it felt to be poor. Basically in the first few years working after education i had saved as much as 70% of my income.

 

Well , if one actually saves 10~15% of whatever he earn irregardless whatever happens it would always be enough. Irregardless how much one earns , as long as they simply live within their means i don't see why they cannot save.

 

I just show a simple example.

 

Assuming if this person is married with kids he would probably worked for 10 year and above.

 

1. Assuming he takes home 1.8k after cpf and saves 180 per month.

 

in ten years = He would have amassed 20k at least. That is on top of whatever he can save if there was a bonus and stuff.

 

I have always advocated savings for rainy days and these money are never to be touched. We only invest the rest of the spare that we can lose.

 

Of course you will tell me not enough and stuff , then not enough work two jobs lor. I had to help out over the weekends in the hawker centre even until now , not that i need the money.

 

this discussion had gone off tangent too much

 

my original peeve in this thread was elite wishing for a catastrophe to happen just to teach certain people a lesson

 

all i want to say is be careful what you wish for because it might just come back and haunt you when you least expect it

 

PS seems like it is getting fashionable in this forum to trumpet how tough life was and how successful one is now despite all odds

 

 

[Hydrocarbon]

The fact that he much younger for me to calling him a little boy and i am much older since he comes from the strawberry gen, it is not a name , its a fact. Respect is earned not asked for. Ask him how old and how long he has worked , no answer. Want my respect , walk the talk. Wanna give opinion yet don't wanna receive criticism for the opinions , how typical of strawberries.

 

I don't need to go through the eat more salt than rice, if one cannot even substantiate whatever he claims he knows what kind of respect you expect me to give? Those that are offended by whatever i have said are the ones with low esteem. Talk is cheap , won't get things done.

 

I talk the same way in front of my boss .

 

Maturity is more about the state of mind and how one reacts to different situation rather than just age. Having lived more years doesn't automatically make the said person wiser, or more mature. It just means that the person has lived more years.

 

[CH_CO]

this discussion had gone off tangent too much

 

my original peeve in this thread was elite wishing for a catastrophe to happen just to teach certain people a lesson

 

all i want to say is be careful what you wish for because it might just come back and haunt you when you least expect it

 

PS seems like it is getting fashionable in this forum to trumpet how tough life was and how successful one is now despite all odds

 

 

 

Well , come back come back lor, it is a fact that the present generation of worker have not experienced harsh environments. Whether if it is trumpeting or not , it really depends on which side you are standing on. To me even if i get reset to zero i can pretty sure i can crawl back up.

 

For those which have yet to start or are complaining , the question is how hungry are you to crawl up? The issue is not to complain on what you are deprived off from you via the false sense of entitlement but to think of how you can achieve it despite all odds. No one owes you a living.

 

You ask me questions and i answered , i told you i done it myself. Now you call me trumpeting? Where i grew up is not a choice i had , the hunger for success is what sets me different from those that had it easy earlier in life.

Edited July 17, 2013 by CH_CO

[Carnoob]

Disclaimer: - I'm not the young generation

 

First, I see 2 problems with the news report -

 

1. Views are from the employer only, news supposed to be neutral

 

2. Mentioned on attitude of new hires Singaporeans but nothing on salary range

 

Yes, young generation IS DEMANDING but root cause from who -> PARENTS, just imagine, as a kid he wants toy I buy toy, he wants ice cream I buy ice cream. So they have the mentality that everything is entitled, given or even no need to work hard for it.

 

So I educate my kids, Papa is poor cannot always buy toys and eat ice cream as often as you want... You will have to work for it!!! Though may be hard pain to see their faces but in the long run they will know nothing comes just by holding out their hands.

 

That's attitude.

 

Now comes the hard part, the salary... keeps comparing locals and foreigners, it is a worldwide problem. Developing countries citizens coming to Developed countries to look for jobs, regardless they are good or not, it is A FACT. Everyone has to survive whether pinoys, indians, PRCs or Singaporeans. When it comes a time that Singapore has no jobs for Singaporeans, then you will see us move. Have to, Must move to stay comfortably.

 

So it is a vicious cycle, Singapore is small, moving too many people in is not a good idea though it will ensure jobs for Singaporeans. As a long term policy to have in the next 20 to 30yrs, it should not be... Productivity is the way to go, we were able to grow fast cos of our hardworking fathers whom believes in productivity over cheap labour. They worked hard and got paid equally matching their efforts.

 

Now most employers believed in cheap labour, don't look just look at PMETs or even cleaners, there are the so-called sandwiched class (Armed Security Guards, e.g. Certis, Aetos, Sats) you asked them for the past 15 yrs, with the increase in inflation how much were their salary increased?? I can tell you very very minimal, their basic salary is even not half of what a regular Police is getting...

 

Why the diff? Aren't they protecting with firearms as well? Because of salary, no one want to join so you are seeing Malaysians coming in to do ARMED Security Guards.

 

I'm trying to prove my point is by generalizing the work force and "victimizing" the new hires, it does not solve anything. The report is lopsided, it would not help to wake us up. It would just divide us further.

 

IT IS a global phenomenon NOT JUST to SINGAPORE. We ARE MOVING towards like Australia, Europe, etc like it or not cos our citizens are just not doing the jobs wer we need them to be. The push for job redesign and productivity had been ignored for too long when we concentrated too much on bringing workers in...

 

We are a loser in our own success. There are still jobs worth exploring like hawkers, chef etc. We are losing too many good hawkers, next time no more chicken rice, fried hokkien mee etc

Edited July 17, 2013 by Carnoob

[Sayang]

My FIL (father in law), his father came to SG, worked hard and managed to make enough to have a family of 8.

From what I know, back then in the 50s, 60s, he brought his wife over, as a shrewd investor, bought many properties.

 

He had 7 children, mix of boy and girls, when they were adults, before marriage, boys given each a property, girls get over 50k cash.

This was in the 60s. Each boy had their own car as well.

 

Since he was not educated himself, he did not stress the importance of education, so most of his children only completed o levels at most. Apparently back then this was enough to secure a decent job. Sadly, non of his children acquired his enterprising spirit, and the $$ lasted barely over 1 generation. After grandparents died, my FIL generation, most if not all lived a middle income life. All did not do well investing and some lost the property given to them. (Some were rentals)

 

Maybe, middle to low, none of them are staying in big hses, driving big cars.

I always had this belief that all parents want their children to exceed them.. .. as in my kids should and will do better then myself. But seeing this story just stirs my doubts.

[Yattokame]

My FIL (father in law), his father came to SG, worked hard and managed to make enough to have a family of 8.

From what I know, back then in the 50s, 60s, he brought his wife over, as a shrewd investor, bought many properties.

 

He had 7 children, mix of boy and girls, when they were adults, before marriage, boys given each a property, girls get over 50k cash.

This was in the 60s. Each boy had their own car as well.

 

Since he was not educated himself, he did not stress the importance of education, so most of his children only completed o levels at most. Apparently back then this was enough to secure a decent job. Sadly, non of his children acquired his enterprising spirit, and the $$ lasted barely over 1 generation. After grandparents died, my FIL generation, most if not all lived a middle income life. All did not do well investing and some lost the property given to them. (Some were rentals)

 

Maybe, middle to low, none of them are staying in big hses, driving big cars.

I always had this belief that all parents want their children to exceed them.. .. as in my kids should and will do better then myself. But seeing this story just stirs my doubts.

 

富不过三代

[CH_CO]

Maturity is more about the state of mind and how one reacts to different situation rather than just age. Having lived more years doesn't automatically make the said person wiser, or more mature. It just means that the person has lived more years.

 

Older doesn't mean wiser , one only becomes wiser via the mistakes he makes. If reading books would make one wiser , everyone in the world would be wise. As for maturity , if one thinks he is old , he is old.

[Carnoob]

Older doesn't mean wiser , one only becomes wiser via the mistakes he makes. If reading books would make one wiser , everyone in the world would be wise. As for maturity , if one thinks he is old , he is old.

 

Some still not any wiser after many mistakes hahaaa

[CH_CO]

Some still not any wiser after many mistakes hahaaa

 

Well , if one doesn't bother to learn from it , how to be wiser? In hokkien , eh gam tia jiu tia beh gam tia mai tia