Shop for Steering Rack Assy Repairs

[Vratenza]

ha. GS. similar to my MarkX where i was chasing suspension or front end noises. in the end it was a faulty shock and brake caliper pins and pad rattle.

 

I have changed the shocks, upper arm, ball-joint, anti-roll bars links, bushing, lower arm rear bush rebuilt the rack. workshops gave up on me and declined to investigate further. i persevered and thought hard and later DIYed and found the noise was from the brakes. I regreased the caliper pins and pads. should have done that first. wasted money. but the GS brakes are different from the MarkX. so maybe its not the brakes? did you touch something here recently? or get a mechanic to check?

 

anyway if you still believe its the rack one test you can do is to use a rubber mallet(or fist? haha) and knock on the left and right arms of  the rack. do you hear any vibrations that is similar to the noise you hear? thats what the workshop taught me and Jason at elite driveshaft said too. anyway Jason was pretty sure it wasn't the rack  but i insisted as i was convinced due to some small sounds when you knock on the arms. in the end wasted $600. the slight sound on the rack was gone but the rattle persisted.

 

if you want i can "lend you my ears", PM me.

 

Wow, you changed almost everything in the front suspension of your car!

 

The sound I started to notice after I changed the shocks all round. After I went back to the workshop that changed my shocks to investigate, they said changing the shocks will not have cause the sound (did not bother to check if they had installed the shocks properly). The boss said that because I have changed out all the shocks, the suspension is "tighter" so all the other wear and tear parts and noises will start to show up.

 

The boss narrowed it down to the steering rack and demo hitting the left and right front tires (with the car jacked) with a mallet to show the left side is loose with more noise on impact. The nature of the noise seem more metallic/higher pitched compared to the rattle I hear in the cabin while driving. But the funny thing is the rattle noise I experience seem to be coming more from the driver side (right).

 

I still have some doubt as to the cause, especially with a 2+K solution that might not even solve the problem. That is why I want to have a 2nd or even 3rd opinion.

 

Thanks for the offer! I will PM you.

[Wildfaye29]

Sound like it. There are just too many variables in the front end.

Most of the workshops are not good or bothered with troubleshooting.

Most of them rather your just change eveything and be done with it. they earn more that way.

I don't mind changing out all the bushings and lower arms, at most come up to less than 1K.

When you tell me that I have to change the whole steering assembly (don't come cheap), that is something I have to research on and maybe get a 2nd or 3rd opinion to verify.

 

 

ha. GS. similar to my MarkX where i was chasing suspension or front end noises. in the end it was a faulty shock and brake caliper pins and pad rattle.

 

I have changed the shocks, upper arm, ball-joint, anti-roll bars links, bushing, lower arm rear bush rebuilt the rack. workshops gave up on me and declined to investigate further. i persevered and thought hard and later DIYed and found the noise was from the brakes. I regreased the caliper pins and pads. should have done that first. wasted money. but the GS brakes are different from the MarkX. so maybe its not the brakes? did you touch something here recently? or get a mechanic to check?

 

anyway if you still believe its the rack one test you can do is to use a rubber mallet(or fist? haha) and knock on the left and right arms of  the rack. do you hear any vibrations that is similar to the noise you hear? thats what the workshop taught me and Jason at elite driveshaft said too. anyway Jason was pretty sure it wasn't the rack  but i insisted as i was convinced due to some small sounds when you knock on the arms. in the end wasted $600. the slight sound on the rack was gone but the rattle persisted.

 

if you want i can "lend you my ears", PM me.

 

Hi both, thanks for the info and tips on your problems and repairs.

 

As mentioned, I have soft knocking sounds when I go over uneven surfaces, plastic humps, portholes, turning when going down slopes.

 

1) Coilovers changed with new rubber top mounts and slightly lowered - sounds persists.

 

Recently decided to upgrade the following:

 

2) front lower arm poly bushes + front anti-roll bar poly bushes (w new droplinks and ball joints) : New good problem - squeaks from the poly bushes (haha thanks to my itchy backside wanting to get poly bushes)

 

3) all new engine mountings (1 new bush is poly - New good problem - slight vibrations can be felt in cabin - another part of my itchy backside)

 

4) all round new brake rotors and brake pads

 

After the above, the knocking sounds seemed to have disappeared. I have been trying hard to replicate them over the last 3 days of driving since the upgrades and it seems to be gone. The 2 new good problems may have masked the sounds of the original problem.

 

I suspected the old front pads as they seemed worn and also felt strange when I applied pressure - as if they were loose. Hence I decided to upgrade to EBC yellows.

 

I will need to monitor closely to see if I can hear the original problem sounds.

 

My question now is, if the problem lies with the steering rack or its related parts - will the front undercarriage/suspension be required to be removed/dropped to fix the problem? Meaning wheel alignment will need to be redone again.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Wildfaye29

[Mkl22]

Hi both, thanks for the info and tips on your problems and repairs.

 

As mentioned, I have soft knocking sounds when I go over uneven surfaces, plastic humps, portholes, turning when going down slopes.

 

1) Coilovers changed with new rubber top mounts and slightly lowered - sounds persists.

 

Recently decided to upgrade the following:

 

2) front lower arm poly bushes + front anti-roll bar poly bushes (w new droplinks and ball joints) : New good problem - squeaks from the poly bushes (haha thanks to my itchy backside wanting to get poly bushes)

 

3) all new engine mountings (1 new bush is poly - New good problem - slight vibrations can be felt in cabin - another part of my itchy backside)

 

4) all round new brake rotors and brake pads

 

After the above, the knocking sounds seemed to have disappeared. I have been trying hard to replicate them over the last 3 days of driving since the upgrades and it seems to be gone. The 2 new good problems may have masked the sounds of the original problem.

 

I suspected the old front pads as they seemed worn and also felt strange when I applied pressure - as if they were loose. Hence I decided to upgrade to EBC yellows.

 

I will need to monitor closely to see if I can hear the original problem sounds.

 

My question now is, if the problem lies with the steering rack or its related parts - will the front undercarriage/suspension be required to be removed/dropped to fix the problem? Meaning wheel alignment will need to be redone again.

 

 

yup, you need alignment every time the rack is touched.

 

anyway congrats on solving the noise. i have learnt to start with the simple and cheapest solution first. if you ask the workshop they will always tell you to change everything as it maximizes their profit as it makes the most money and uses the least amount of time. remember the workshop is out to earn and make a profit. troubleshooting noise is very time consuming and how to charge unless you change parts.

 

 

[Dscheng]

Haiz.. i think my Stream also need to change steering rack and it is not cheap..

[Vratenza]

Hi both, thanks for the info and tips on your problems and repairs.

 

As mentioned, I have soft knocking sounds when I go over uneven surfaces, plastic humps, portholes, turning when going down slopes.

 

1) Coilovers changed with new rubber top mounts and slightly lowered - sounds persists.

 

Recently decided to upgrade the following:

 

2) front lower arm poly bushes + front anti-roll bar poly bushes (w new droplinks and ball joints) : New good problem - squeaks from the poly bushes (haha thanks to my itchy backside wanting to get poly bushes)

 

3) all new engine mountings (1 new bush is poly - New good problem - slight vibrations can be felt in cabin - another part of my itchy backside)

 

4) all round new brake rotors and brake pads

 

After the above, the knocking sounds seemed to have disappeared. I have been trying hard to replicate them over the last 3 days of driving since the upgrades and it seems to be gone. The 2 new good problems may have masked the sounds of the original problem.

 

I suspected the old front pads as they seemed worn and also felt strange when I applied pressure - as if they were loose. Hence I decided to upgrade to EBC yellows.

 

I will need to monitor closely to see if I can hear the original problem sounds.

 

My question now is, if the problem lies with the steering rack or its related parts - will the front undercarriage/suspension be required to be removed/dropped to fix the problem? Meaning wheel alignment will need to be redone again.

 

Congrats. Just monitor for a while and see if the sound reappears or your are able to start deciphering the original sounds out from the new sounds. If you cannot hear it, don't chase after it....be prepared to expect more unexpected things when you chase it down the rabbit hole.

[Vratenza]

Just an update on my quest to resolve my front suspension/steering rack noise.

 

After talking to mkl22 and another workshop for 2nd opinion, both do not think is the steering rack problem.

 

So far  have changed the following:

- anti-roll bar bushings (1st round)

- lower control arm bushings (1st round)

- front ball joints (Round 2)

- front anti-roll bar linkage (Round 2)

 

The ride and handling tightened up after each round, most significant being after round 2. 

 

I suspect I was dealing with 2 components of noises because after round 2, the rough road rattle reduced significantly (still monitoring) but when going over abrupt(non gradual) humps, their is a short rattle (sound quality seem sharper) from the right front area.

 

I am suspecting may be the brand new right front shock absorber was not installed properly and could be grinding in the "seat".

 

Just wondering if anyone else might have had problem with improperly installed shocks? Do they exhibit similar sounds especially over the humps?

 

[Wildfaye29]

yup, you need alignment every time the rack is touched.

 

anyway congrats on solving the noise. i have learnt to start with the simple and cheapest solution first. if you ask the workshop they will always tell you to change everything as it maximizes their profit as it makes the most money and uses the least amount of time. remember the workshop is out to earn and make a profit. troubleshooting noise is very time consuming and how to charge unless you change parts.

 

 

 

noted with thanks on alignment! 

 

Congrats. Just monitor for a while and see if the sound reappears or your are able to start deciphering the original sounds out from the new sounds. If you cannot hear it, don't chase after it....be prepared to expect more unexpected things when you chase it down the rabbit hole.

 

 

I am hoping its really gone! not hearing it doesn't mean the problem's solved! ha!

[Mkl22]

Just an update on my quest to resolve my front suspension/steering rack noise.

 

After talking to mkl22 and another workshop for 2nd opinion, both do not think is the steering rack problem.

 

So far have changed the following:

- anti-roll bar bushings (1st round)

- lower control arm bushings (1st round)

- front ball joints (Round 2)

- front anti-roll bar linkage (Round 2)

 

The ride and handling tightened up after each round, most significant being after round 2.

 

I suspect I was dealing with 2 components of noises because after round 2, the rough road rattle reduced significantly (still monitoring) but when going over abrupt(non gradual) humps, their is a short rattle (sound quality seem sharper) from the right front area.

 

I am suspecting may be the brand new right front shock absorber was not installed properly and could be grinding in the "seat".

 

Just wondering if anyone else might have had problem with improperly installed shocks? Do they exhibit similar sounds especially over the humps?

Unlikely it's the shock mounts. Seen it up close and it's rather tough. I still think only on washboard roads when the noise appears it's likely the brake pads. If it's the shock mounts you will hear it over those short rubber humps. To be sure go over those short rubber humps at an angle so that you only hear one side at a time.

[Vratenza]

Unlikely it's the shock mounts. Seen it up close and it's rather tough. I still think only on washboard roads when the noise appears it's likely the brake pads. If it's the shock mounts you will hear it over those short rubber humps. To be sure go over those short rubber humps at an angle so that you only hear one side at a time.

 

I asked the 2nd workshop to help me check the brakes, the headman basically just checked the thickness and said still got 75% left so did not take out the pads to check if fitted properly. I already bought original toyota brake pads to be changed incase.

 

I am thinking of diy check the brake pads and lubricate the clips myself. Do you have any tips on the process?

What type of grease should I get and where to get them?

[Mkl22]

I asked the 2nd workshop to help me check the brakes, the headman basically just checked the thickness and said still got 75% left so did not take out the pads to check if fitted properly. I already bought original toyota brake pads to be changed incase.

 

I am thinking of diy check the brake pads and lubricate the clips myself. Do you have any tips on the process?

What type of grease should I get and where to get them?

 

i have never done GS brakes, the caliper is one piece. I used copper grease. probably need to rebend the caliper anti rattle clips or buy new ones. its the pads rattling but to solve mine what i did was to bend the anti rattle clips. the copper grease on the back of the pads is more to dampen the squeals.

this link should help.

 

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/suspension-and-brakes/276736-diy-is350-front-brakes-w-o-removing-caliper.html

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mkl22

[Wildfaye29]

@mkl22 @vratenza

 

new problem!

 

when I do normal turnings, going over humps forward n reverse, no abnormality.

 

when I do abrupt turnings like jam brake to avoid obstacles, fast cornering, a piak piak piak sound comes about. sounds like the antiroll bar bushings as its like loud rubber. not metallic sounds.

 

I sprayed a fair bit of silicon grease and monitoring.

[Kb27]

I didn't read everything, but if you have noise going over bump or even on straight road, check if you have changed shock absorbers before.

See if you have any oil leak around the shocks.

 

It might just be that simple.

 

Shocks wear out after certain mileage.

[Mkl22]

How many km and how old? The sound is new and different from before? Still in the same general location in the front of the car?

[Brobear]

Need some experience sharing for what are the symptoms of a steering rack problem?

 

My car experiencing some rattling sound from the front suspension area especially over rough road surface or speed regulating strips at low speed. The steering wheel seems to be getting more vibrations transmitted from the road surface during high speed travel. During turning not an issue with no sound or vibration from lock to lock.

 

I suspect is the steering rack problem. I thought steering rack is not a wear and tear item?

 

Checked with stockist, seem like the steering rack comes in a whole set. 

 

Are there anyway to repair the steering rack? Change bushing? I read up some online forum, they just change out the steering rack bushings and all their similar symptoms goes away.

 

I have the same problem with my Altis. Went back to BM and they told me just need to torque the steering column. Put car whole day and in the end they said couldn't torque   So have been leaving with the slight knocking sound ever since..... 5 years already

[Ahgong]

Just an update on my quest to resolve my front suspension/steering rack noise.

 

After talking to mkl22 and another workshop for 2nd opinion, both do not think is the steering rack problem.

 

So far  have changed the following:

- anti-roll bar bushings (1st round)

- lower control arm bushings (1st round)

- front ball joints (Round 2)

- front anti-roll bar linkage (Round 2)

 

The ride and handling tightened up after each round, most significant being after round 2. 

 

I suspect I was dealing with 2 components of noises because after round 2, the rough road rattle reduced significantly (still monitoring) but when going over abrupt(non gradual) humps, their is a short rattle (sound quality seem sharper) from the right front area.

 

I am suspecting may be the brand new right front shock absorber was not installed properly and could be grinding in the "seat".

 

Just wondering if anyone else might have had problem with improperly installed shocks? Do they exhibit similar sounds especially over the humps?

 

PM the workshop details leh.

[Vratenza]

I didn't read everything, but if you have noise going over bump or even on straight road, check if you have changed shock absorbers before.

See if you have any oil leak around the shocks.

 

It might just be that simple.

 

Shocks wear out after certain mileage.

 

 

my noise comes after I changed all 4 of my shocks to original shocks.

[Vratenza]

Updating you guys here. Maybe it will give people here some areas to look at when trying to solve your irritating front suspension sounds.

 

My problem seems to have been fully resolved (after testing for 1 day in all possible road conditions).  [finger crossed]

 

Problem turns out to be from the front shock mounts.

 

As I mentioned previously, the noise started after changing my shocks all round. initially it was soft, but got louder as time passes and as I started to change out parts to try to solve the problem. the workshop who installed my shocks brushed off my suggestion to check the shock installation saying that the shock installation is pretty straightforward and not likely to be the source of the noise, most likely due to my bushings and links in the undercarriage. As I changed out most of the old bushings and joints, the handling of the car tightened up and the noise got louder.

 

After driving around without my music/radio for the last few weeks, I kind of narrow the noise to a specific condition when my right suspension was being compressed since when I roll my left front wheel up a hump first, the sound did not appear.  If it is the steering rack, the noise should have been replicated either side since it is all linked up in the center.

 

At my wit's end, I decided to insist that the workshop to show me the mounting of the front strut through the engine bay.

 

 

I took this pic off the internet to show what I am talking about. this is the same mounting I have on my car.

 

While jacked the right side (where the noise comes from), the silver locking nut was off centre and almost touching the side of black metal rim. When I looked at the left side, the nut was more centralised although still not dead centered. I got the workshop to lower the car to that the suspension will be under load. The nut position changed by a few millimeters on the right. That kind of tells me that the shock mount is pretty dynamic when under various load.

 

Next, I got the workshop to remove the mount and I inspected it visually, no crack no wear and tear, looks pretty new in fact. I noticed that the center metal ring (where the shock rod passes through) is held in the center by rubber material within the mount. As with all bushings, inspection is one think, but if it has been demonstrated under load test to yield, it is worn and needs to be changed.

 

So I got the workshop to change out the  mounting on both sides. the noise is magically gone the next moment of test driving. I think even the boss of the workshop was pretty surprised.

 

The workshop in the bid to save me money, did not recommend me to change my front shock mounts during my shock change since visually it is not damaged. End up I have to spend a few hundred more to sort out the noise it created. I do not blame the workshop but given the lesson learnt the hard way, I will probably insist on them changing the front mounts together with the shock change in the future.

 

 

[Ahgong]

Updating you guys here. Maybe it will give people here some areas to look at when trying to solve your irritating front suspension sounds.

 

My problem seems to have been fully resolved (after testing for 1 day in all possible road conditions).  [finger crossed]

 

Problem turns out to be from the front shock mounts.

 

As I mentioned previously, the noise started after changing my shocks all round. initially it was soft, but got louder as time passes and as I started to change out parts to try to solve the problem. the workshop who installed my shocks brushed off my suggestion to check the shock installation saying that the shock installation is pretty straightforward and not likely to be the source of the noise, most likely due to my bushings and links in the undercarriage. As I changed out most of the old bushings and joints, the handling of the car tightened up and the noise got louder.

 

After driving around without my music/radio for the last few weeks, I kind of narrow the noise to a specific condition when my right suspension was being compressed since when I roll my left front wheel up a hump first, the sound did not appear.  If it is the steering rack, the noise should have been replicated either side since it is all linked up in the center.

 

At my wit's end, I decided to insist that the workshop to show me the mounting of the front strut through the engine bay.

 

 

I took this pic off the internet to show what I am talking about. this is the same mounting I have on my car.

 

While jacked the right side (where the noise comes from), the silver locking nut was off centre and almost touching the side of black metal rim. When I looked at the left side, the nut was more centralised although still not dead centered. I got the workshop to lower the car to that the suspension will be under load. The nut position changed by a few millimeters on the right. That kind of tells me that the shock mount is pretty dynamic when under various load.

 

Next, I got the workshop to remove the mount and I inspected it visually, no crack no wear and tear, looks pretty new in fact. I noticed that the center metal ring (where the shock rod passes through) is held in the center by rubber material within the mount. As with all bushings, inspection is one think, but if it has been demonstrated under load test to yield, it is worn and needs to be changed.

 

So I got the workshop to change out the  mounting on both sides. the noise is magically gone the next moment of test driving. I think even the boss of the workshop was pretty surprised.

 

The workshop in the bid to save me money, did not recommend me to change my front shock mounts during my shock change since visually it is not damaged. End up I have to spend a few hundred more to sort out the noise it created. I do not blame the workshop but given the lesson learnt the hard way, I will probably insist on them changing the front mounts together with the shock change in the future.

 

can't praise you yet. but this is really a good lesson to gleam from your experience!

Kam Siah Brudder!

Appreciate the candid, no-holds-barred sharing!!!