Tesla Model S

[Joseph22]

I believe it is fully electric.

But government haven't finish their R&D of electical car wor. Bring in before they finish, simply asking for Long procedure.

[Carbon82]

To do otherwise, ppl may then say why give special treatment to this Nguyen. What's so special about him? The folks at LTA just doing their job. Now as to whether we need to rethink our green thingy in the light of major tech advancement.. We should. But before we do that electric car are not as green as it is touted. Electricity in SG is generated using coal and LNG and maybe even petrol. So how?

I think the whole saga meant to highlight just 2 things:

 

1) Lack of clarity on determining vehicle tax (CEVS) and the method used to derive at the rebate / surcharge

2) Role and responsibility between LTA, EMA and maybe other agencies not properly defined

 

In all fairness, as car owner myself, I would expect a full electric car (not a hybrid or those with range extender) with CO2 emission rating of 0g/Km to be entitled to the max. CEVS rebate of $30K (barring the rule that min $5K ARF is payable), based on what published on LTA website. BTW, I have look for everything on that page with great details, but it does not mentioned anything about correlating power consumption to CO2 rating.

 

And under Tax Structure for Cars (LTA), again, nothing special mentioned under the eletric car section (in fact is stated No Applicable for electric car). All said, I still cannot figure out why EMA is in the loop. Maybe I should do some readup at ACG website...

[Runforyourlife]

Think of it this way, you are the minority if you wanna own a tesla. its the same as you're e minority when you own the diesel.

 

coming back to tesla example, u are minority so so so so so minority that why should the govt make leeway for the few peeps? infra is not here yet, if they make it any easier, more peeps would take up and subsequently complain cos the infra is still not up yet. not up yet, not as if its up and now in testing mode.

 

the minority has always been urged to follow the majority esp when the necessary infra stuff are not available yet.

[L_club23]

But government haven't finish their R&D of electical car wor. Bring in before they finish, simply asking for Long procedure.

 

I mean, the i3 is on the roads right? So there's probably a procedure established already...

So why this whole fiasco for the Tesla?

 

Unless PML were granted "concessions"....

[Carbon82]

While I agreed that the data might have been obtained through different test method and/or standard, but how far can it go?

 

I have a rude shock when I start searching on onemoting website for the official data in Singapore. Have a good look at the figures of BMW i3 & i8 (Page 20 of the list), and compare it with figures published on BMW website... ... Such a huge variations in data??

 

LTA Info: https://vrl.lta.gov.sg/rpt/vrl/data_arch/VT035W201602272001185241.zip

BMW i3: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i3/2015/showroom/technical_data.html#m=i3_range_extender

BMW i8: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/i/i8/2014/showroom/technical_data.html

 

In case you cannot open the file in the LTA link, go to https://vrl.lta.gov.sg/lta/vrl/action/loadFuelCostCalAction?FUNCTION_ID=F2305001ET, and click on "Download All Vehicle Fuel Economy Data" tab. It should work.

Go to the same link I posted for LTA and check out the electric car from Renault (Fluence, Kangoo, Zoe). Can any kind soul here tell me how our LTA declare that a full electric car emit up to 102g/Km??  

[BenTong]

This Nguyen seems like a learned professional. Not a country bumpkin. He could have researched before bringing the car to Spore. Not kao bey when it's is here.

 

Difficult to emphatize. And from a petty perspective wasted our public services time. After all he can drive the car on Sg roads. So what's his real problem. He just pissed he did not get the $15K discount but yet kena pay $15k premium.

[Joseph22]

I mean, the i3 is on the roads right? So there's probably a procedure established already...

So why this whole fiasco for the Tesla?

 

Unless PML were granted "concessions"....

What is the car plate Color in?

 

Another consideration is, maybe i3 also have to go thru the same procedure and it got the status the same way??

This Nguyen seems like a learned professional. Not a country bumpkin. He could have researched before bringing the car to Spore. Not kao bey when it's is here.

 

Difficult to emphatize. And from a petty perspective wasted our public services time. After all he can drive the car on Sg roads. So what's his real problem. He just pissed he did not get the $15K discount but yet kena pay $15k premium.

Actually is everyone else piss but not him.

 

He is just frustrated the procedure took so Long. And surprise that he need to pay 15k despite it been a electrical car.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Joseph22

[Carbon82]

I mean, the i3 is on the roads right? So there's probably a procedure established already...

So why this whole fiasco for the Tesla?

 

Unless PML were granted "concessions"....

The i3 sold here come with range extender, which basically is a hybrid setup. Tesla by far is the only full electric car brought in (for non-R&D purpose).

 

Under the R&D evaluation scheme, iirc, we current have these few make / model running on our road:

1) BYD e6

2) Mitsubishi i

3) Nissan Leaf

4) Renault Fluence Z.E.

5) Renault Kangoo Z.E.

6) Renault Zoe Z.E.

[inlinesix]

The i3 sold here come with range extender, which basically is a hybrid setup. Tesla by far is the only full electric car brought in (for non-R&D purpose).

 

Under the R&D evaluation scheme, iirc, we current have these few make / model running on our road:

1) BYD e6

2) Mitsubishi i

3) Nissan Leaf

4) Renault Fluence Z.E.

5) Renault Kangoo Z.E.

6) Renault Zoe Z.E.

 

i3 is not hybrid.  Petrol engine is juz power generator ONLY.

 

[Joseph22]

i3 is not hybrid. Petrol engine is juz power generator ONLY.

 

Isn't that hybrids. It's not pure electric

[Spring]

I think the whole saga meant to highlight just 2 things:

 

1) Lack of clarity on determining vehicle tax (CEVS) and the method used to derive at the rebate / surcharge

2) Role and responsibility between LTA, EMA and maybe other agencies not properly defined

 

In all fairness, as car owner myself, I would expect a full electric car (not a hybrid or those with range extender) with CO2 emission rating of 0g/Km to be entitled to the max. CEVS rebate of $30K (barring the rule that min $5K ARF is payable), based on what published on LTA website. BTW, I have look for everything on that page with great details, but it does not mentioned anything about correlating power consumption to CO2 rating.

 

And under Tax Structure for Cars (LTA), again, nothing special mentioned under the eletric car section (in fact is stated No Applicable for electric car). All said, I still cannot figure out why EMA is in the loop. Maybe I should do some readup at ACG website...

 

Fully agree with your post esp on the lack of clarity and role responsibilities.

 

I emphatise with this guy being pushed around. Full electric car not entitled to CEVS rebate beggars belief and to add insult to injury, kena max surcharge some more!!

 

I'm not technical so won't go into finer details but LTA could do their part by spelling out what exactly is require to avoid this kind of situation and frankly, it's not difficult as you can find lots of info on this car as it has been introduced all over the world so it's not as if it's first of its kind.

Of course they shouldn't just rely on internet info and need to do real tests but at least with the info, they could and should get themselves more equipped to handle this car.

 

BTW, kudos to you for actually taking the trouble to scrutinize LTA website!!

 

Based on this guy's experience, looks like it will not be viable to bring in this car for sale.

That said, gut feel tells me LTA will move goalposts on this sometime down the road, my 2 cents!!

 

 

[inlinesix]

Isn't that hybrids. It's not pure electric

 

Hybrid means car driven with both electric motor & petrol engine.

 

Range extender is juz charger for the battery.  ONly electric motor drive the car.

[L_club23]

What is the car plate Color in?

 

Another consideration is, maybe i3 also have to go thru the same procedure and it got the status the same way??

Actually is everyone else piss but not him.

 

He is just frustrated the procedure took so Long. And surprise that he need to pay 15k despite it been a electrical car.

 

There are i3s on normal plates running around for some time already...

 

If it did, why the whole fiasco of the different parties involved not knowing what they are suppose to do?

Edited March 4, 2016 by L_club23

[inlinesix]

Fully agree with your post esp on the lack of clarity and role responsibilities.

 

I emphatise with this guy being pushed around. Full electric car not entitled to CEVS rebate beggars belief and to add insult to injury, kena max surcharge some more!!

 

I'm not technical so won't go into finer details but LTA could do their part by spelling out what exactly is require to avoid this kind of situation and frankly, it's not difficult as you can find lots of info on this car as it has been introduced all over the world so it's not as if it's first of its kind.

Of course they shouldn't just rely on internet info and need to do real tests but at least with the info, they could and should get themselves more equipped to handle this car.

 

BTW, kudos to you for actually taking the trouble to scrutinize LTA website!!

 

Based on this guy's experience, looks like it will not be viable to bring in this car for sale.

That said, gut feel tells me LTA will move goalposts on this sometime down the road, my 2 cents!!

 

That's why Tesla close shop here.

 

[L_club23]

Hybrid means car driven with both electric motor & petrol engine.

 

Range extender is juz charger for the battery.  ONly electric motor drive the car.

 

You have to doubt whether the powers-that-be took that into account though...I wouldn't be surprised if they had just evaluated the range extender portion as a petrol engine with no emissions....

[Joseph22]

Hybrid means car driven with both electric motor & petrol engine.

 

Range extender is juz charger for the battery. ONly electric motor drive the car.

i thought Last time Mitsubishi want to use this method they also call it hybrids leh. Edited March 4, 2016 by Joseph22

[Carbon82]

OK, BMW i3, as with Chevy Volt, are driven by electric motor, while the gasoline engine aka range extender are meant for charging the battery, when battery power falls below a certain value. The gasoline engine is NOT used to drive the car directly. In this aspect, yes, it is not a hybrid (which uses electric motor and gasoline engine to drive the car directly).

 

The i8 on the other hand is a proper hybrid, powering the car using a 1.5L 3 cyclinder TC petrol engine producing 231hp, and electric motor producing 129hp.

 

In both cases, CO2 are emitted from the use of a gasoline engine.

[Joseph22]

You have to doubt whether the powers-that-be took that into account though...I wouldn't be surprised if they had just evaluated the range extender portion as a petrol engine with no emissions....

Yes I believe this is what had been done.