Will u buy Diesel or Petrol Cars in SG

[inlinesix]

Many people don't realize petrol engines also release NOx. Euro 6 diesel engines like BMW 2 GT release about same level of NOx compares to euro 6 petrol engines. Meaning it is even cleaner than pre 2005 petrol engines, and releases way less CO. Are euro 6 engines polluters?

 

Diesel engines release more pollution in real world test as compared to lab test. You guys think petrol engines real world vs lab test result will not the same in city driving Singapore? They are made by the same manufacturers.

 

No1 polluters are Malaysia old diesel trucks coming to SG daily to deliver food and materials. Taxing them is near to impossible unless we grow everything. No2 will be SG buses, and trucks then finally taxis. Taxing them will be meaningful to cut down pollution, but Private transport and SME costs will balloon and many SMEs will suffer. Personal costs will sky rocket due to multiplying effect. Eg school bus, bus fees, food costs. SG economy will be affected, beside the fact that there are no realistic replacement vehicles available. Eg same price electric buses and SME delivery trucks that have the same mileage range (per charge) and running costs.

 

Private Diesel cars are so few in SG and way higher in Euro category meaning low in pollution, plus like someone mentioned using so little mileage on the road that taxing them are merely a futile exercise. It neither cut down enough pollution nor bring in enough tax income. Besides it leaves a bad taste in those who believed the authorities when it promoted Diesel as a clean solution. Being consistent and reliable has been a hallmark of SG governance. To lose it and the confidence it entails will be a pity.

 

All Malaysia truck coming into Singapore has to comply with Singapore fuel quality, i.e. Euro 4 diesel.

 

Are you Singapore diesel for taxi, bus & lorry not comply with Euro 4?

 

With Singapore being an island, there is no empirical proof for source of pollution.

[Fcw75]

tell me about it man.

U were one of them bro? Should leave the CNG tank at Parliament House...haha.

[Actioneer]

All Malaysia truck coming into Singapore has to comply with Singapore fuel quality, i.e. Euro 4 diesel.

 

Are you Singapore diesel for taxi, bus & lorry not comply with Euro 4?

 

With Singapore being an island, there is no empirical proof for source of pollution.

Malaysia even right now sometimes dont have euro 5 diesel at pump, a lot of time said sold out or dont sell. I only managed to pump once recently and its nearer to KL. All the while their standard diesel if not wrong is euro 2, not to mention those that use marine diesel which is cheaper. How long have you not driven in SG? You never see Malaysia and some singapore trucks emitting free black "fog" on road?

Btw AFAIK their older engine also emits more Pollution compares to the newer category engines even when using euro 5 diesel due to older tech.

 

SG is also "trying" to do something about what they called "white pumps": marine diesel tankers. If all uses clean diesel then the black smoke comes from where? (Apart from diesel filter already spoiled by lower grade diesel and yet to save cost still Dont want to replace).

[Tianmo]

I dont think those diesel car owners are going to suffer anything worse than the CNG car owners. Its not a fair comparison in my opinion.  

 

For a start, operating the car will not be affected, every fuel station in SG has diesel pumps. SG cars are not banned from pumping MY diesel (yet).  99% WS in SG can do a basic servicing of diesel cars, and the same applies in MY. Diesel cars dont need special WS or special tools to service. 

 

This is totally different from the CNG project. CNG cars died because there was no support at all, the infrastructure was totally absent. running fuel was limited, to service the car you better know 1 or 2 things to DIY it. Some WS dont even want your business. 

 

So, will diesel cars face the same fate as CNG cars? Highly unlikely, diesel cars wont be put to sleep as easily as CNG cars, if it even happens at all.

 

But buyers/owners will have to be prepared, be prepared to redo their calculations. Whatever sums they had done, they may have to redo them again because things will change, but sadly not going to be in their favor. Will the gov do something that will hurt this grp of ppl? I think the answer is YES, but will the policies kill the whole damn thing? I would think unlikely. 

 

If you are in it already, f**k it. its only another of those days we cannot control. Just make the best out of it.

If you are thinking of jumping into it, well if the deal is good enough and you can stomach any upsets later, forget about speculating what the gov will do. Think of what you can do. They are the banker, keep that in mind.     

 

[Ganwb79]

I can tell u that the published specs may be vastly different from the real world tests . The fact that Volkswagen and other manufacturers such as Renault Mercedes all have the defeat devices indicate that diesel tech is a failure and that diesel is dirty after all

 

The real dangers of diesel lie in the nox level , go check with nea a large proportion of our air pollution in sg comes from the diesel pollution from commercial vehicles

 

To add to that for the typical car user diesel is not cheaper , petrol comes with 80 plus cents of tax that's why it costs more . Otherwise diesel is same price as petrol. One can also argue that diesel contains more energy level per liter which is true (around 20 percent ) but at the end of the day for anyone who travels 30k a year and after factoring the road tax and extra maintenance over a 5 year period diesel also won't be cheaper .

Not sure why this thread stir up so much deep feelings for our environment.

[Tianmo]

U were one of them bro? Should leave the CNG tank at Parliament House...haha.

 

KNN, now my blood still boil thinking abt it. 

 

But it was a very good experience, I always look at it as a good lesson and I really learned something out of it.   

 

But still, KNNBCCB to the CNG project. 

[merc280v6]

Auctioneer

 

Your argument is a totally flawed one.

The table attached showing source (exhaust tip) emissions were derived from real world testing of NEW cars.

 

It is a proven fact that Diesel engines, turbo or otherwise, can and WILL deteriorate much faster than gasoline engines re attaining stoichiometric combustion, within a few years of operation.

 

NOx more so than PM (with filter technology that needs to be inspected and replaced when a breakthrough occurs) is the most impactful to human lives and any government in the world will be tasked to safeguard that right of the peoples ... engine technology, fuel economics all notwithstanding.

 

For SG at least, the writing is already on the wall for passenger diesel cars. Their swan song is due likely before 2018. People will just stop buying diesel car models because it will become extremely punitive, with no advantage whatsoever over the cleaner gasoline alternative!

 

The governments of the USA, Japan, Korea, Thailand (with gasohol alternative), S.America (with gasohol alternative), Australia (with LPG alternative) and many more, cannot be all wrong AGAINST embracing diesels.

Even the EU countries (which started it all, in their short-sightedness - especially the Germans

[Fcw75]

KNN, now my blood still boil thinking abt it.

 

But it was a very good experience, I always look at it as a good lesson and I really learned something out of it.

 

But still, KNNBCCB to the CNG project.

What did you learned bro? Hah

[Tianmo]

What did you learned bro? Hah

 

 

I think I will have to present a wall of text if I pen down everything. Next MU cum join us, choice a seat beside me, and we can talk about it.     

[Theoldjaffa]

I think I will have to present a wall of text if I pen down everything. Next MU cum join us, choice a seat beside me, and we can talk about it.

Can I join? Want to molest your car

[Tianmo]

Can I join? Want to molest your car

 

Our MU is open to all MCF bros and Sis, all are welcome leh. 

 

As long as you dont molest me, you are free to touch and squeeze my car.     

[Theoldjaffa]

Our MU is open to all MCF bros and Sis, all are welcome leh.

 

As long as you dont molest me, you are free to touch and squeeze my car.

Is there a thread that announce meetups?

[Actioneer]

Auctioneer

 

Your argument is a totally flawed one.

The table attached showing source (exhaust tip) emissions were derived from real world testing of NEW cars.

 

It is a proven fact that Diesel engines, turbo or otherwise, can and WILL deteriorate much faster than gasoline engines re attaining stoichiometric combustion, within a few years of operation.

 

NOx more so than PM (with filter technology that needs to be inspected and replaced when a breakthrough occurs) is the most impactful to human lives and any government in the world will be tasked to safeguard that right of the peoples ... engine technology, fuel economics all notwithstanding.

Hi 1st its actioneer :)

 

Are u agreeing that diesel is safe except when the particulate filter spoils? And the issue is that the world govts cant force their cars to change them? But This is SG, with 10 year COE and mandatory checks on year 3,5 etc. enforcement of filter change with a receipt by year 5 + a test is a simple thing to authorities not to mention the checking fess involved :) ($$ to the authorities and to ADs and workshops, stimulate economy).

 

Now problem solved. SG diesel cars are the best example of clean diesel on earth, and the ONLY country that can do it, forcing every country in thw world to come and study our diesel model (and take time off at MBS poolside after the study) :)).Now its the chance for authorities to take a global threat into an opportunity to be a leader and aid SG into another MICE event excuse. Any takers?

[Xeryh]

Sounds like ego burst le.

 

What he said might be crude.

 

Look at CNG car lor.

No lah, I was looking at the x5m50d cos the triple turbo sounds interesting. Already got my xc90 t8 last year as my people carrier.

 

Fuel economy is the last thing on my mind, though I don't mind giving new tech a try if it's good to the environment. Luckily I didn't :P

[merc280v6]

Hi 1st its actioneer :)

 

Are u agreeing that diesel is safe except when the particulate filter spoils? And the issue is that the world govts cant force their cars to change them? But This is SG, with 10 year COE and mandatory checks on year 3,5 etc. enforcement of filter change with a receipt by year 5 + a test is a simple thing to authorities not to mention the checking fess involved :)

 

It's PM2.5 AND NOx ... the former can be filtered until breakthrough / replacement, but high-NOx is inherent in diesel (>C12) combustion, vs gasoline (C4-C9).

 

The SG garmen has legislated more stringent SOx, NOx, PM, CO, and heavy metals concentrations for all point sources and combined emissions stacks for industries by Jan 1, 2013.

Natural gas would likely replace all of today's liquid fuel burning to meet those specifications!

 

Yes, it will indeed be more costly to operate any large-scale manufacturing plant here, burning imported LNG ... so brace yourself for a blip / increase in fuel and manufacturing costs across all industrial sectors circa 2013. Cost of goods sold will all just upz!!!

 

Huat ahh!

Edited February 4, 2017 by merc280v6

[Actioneer]

It's PM2.5 AND NOx ... the former can be filtered until breakthrough / replacement, but high-NOx is inherent in diesel (>C12) combustion, vs gasoline (C4-C9).

 

Hi if u see my earlier post, PM and Nox for euro 6 diesel is similar to euro 6 petrol engines, with diesel having less CO. In short euro 6 diesel engines are cleaner than older tech petrol engines and on par with new petrol engines. A mandatory filter change at say 5th year will solve all the issues now. Older diesel vehicles especially trucks must not be able to renew COE so that only latest Diesel engines stays on the road. The same goes to older petrol cars since they pollute more (see my earlier chart).

 

LPG cars can blow up like a bomb, u can google for a sydney case: car off driver smoke outside car, car exploded, police cant find remains of him. I doubt SG dare to use this tech.

 

That leaves a question: what engine tech now can replace diesel's pulling force or torque? Eg to pull a broken down SBS bus, we might need a V12 turbo petrol engine tow truck. How much petrol to burn and pollution would it produce? What about all the excavators, road pavers, cranes, rubbish trucks etc? Or marine ships calling at SG, wanna ban or tax them? There is simply no replacement tech at a reasonable cost right now.

 

All these diesel witch hunting is just empty talk. Petrol still pollutes, just less. Euro 6 diesel is as good with even less CO. LPG can blow up, LNG can burn up, electric uses toxic batteries that hurts earth like mad (go google hownthey mine littium and other rare earth) and can also burn/cause small explosion. Got iron man perpetual clean energy source then we talk k?

 

The practical steps in SG are 1) to disallow COE renewal completely for all vehicles to ensure latest engine tech only on the road 2) completely eradicate bunker fuel (dirty diesel) white source which really pollute SG environment 3)enforce Malaysia trucks must pump euro5 diesel then can come in (show pump receipt with latest date).

 

Back to the main topic, for those current diesel car owners, just enjoy your rides. We dont buy car to resell, its to use for 10years, so resale value is just a number. Dealers use any excuse to press down your car price. Assure u petrol cars also have bad resale now as bad economy is a good excuse to them

Edited February 5, 2017 by Actioneer

[Verve]

All Malaysia truck coming into Singapore has to comply with Singapore fuel quality, i.e. Euro 4 diesel.

 

Are you Singapore diesel for taxi, bus & lorry not comply with Euro 4?

 

With Singapore being an island, there is no empirical proof for source of pollution.

Give nea a buzz and ask them to releases the public data to you . Why is it that there is no way to measure pollution in Singapore just because it's an island ? Nea s job is to constantly monitor the pollution of our country

Hi if u see my earlier post, PM and Nox for euro 6 diesel is similar to euro 6 petrol engines, with diesel having less CO. In short euro 6 diesel engines are cleaner than older tech petrol engines and on par with new petrol engines. A mandatory filter change at say 5th year will solve all the issues now. Older diesel vehicles especially trucks must not be able to renew COE so that only latest Diesel engines stays on the road. The same goes to older petrol cars since they pollute more (see my earlier chart).

 

LPG cars can blow up like a bomb, u can google for a sydney case: car off driver smoke outside car, car exploded, police cant find remains of him. I doubt SG dare to use this tech.

 

That leaves a question: what engine tech now can replace diesel's pulling force or torque? Eg to pull a broken down SBS bus, we might need a V12 turbo petrol engine tow truck. How much petrol to burn and pollution would it produce? What about all the excavators, road pavers, cranes, rubbish trucks etc? Or marine ships calling at SG, wanna ban or tax them? There is simply no replacement tech at a reasonable cost right now.

 

All these diesel witch hunting is just empty talk. Petrol still pollutes, just less. Euro 6 diesel is as good with even less CO. LPG can blow up, LNG can burn up, electric uses toxic batteries that hurts earth like mad (go google hownthey mine littium and other rare earth) and can also burn/cause small explosion. Got iron man perpetual clean energy source then we talk k?

 

The practical steps in SG are 1) to disallow COE renewal completely for all vehicles to ensure latest engine tech only on the road 2) completely eradicate bunker fuel (dirty diesel) white source which really pollute SG environment 3)enforce Malaysia trucks must pump euro5 diesel then can come in (show pump receipt with latest date).

 

Back to the main topic, for those current diesel car owners, just enjoy your rides. We dont buy car to resell, its to use for 10years, so resale value is just a number. Dealers use any excuse to press down your car price. Assure u petrol cars also have bad resale now as bad economy is a good excuse to them ð. Diesel engines are made from solid cast iron which lasts whereas petrol engines are made from aluminum which can deform. Which one do you think can last longer?

 

You have bought in good conscience believing the authority's promotion (CEVS) that it s a clean energy solution and frankly it is (euro 6 engines). If CEVS removed from newer diesel cars then you got a cheaper ride so just enjoy it till 10 years (others cant get it anymore at the old lower price). If diesel prices goes up (may be a bit to appease the wrong common sentiment) it will still be cheaper than petrol. All things in SG is transported by diesel trucks: all your ntuc/cold storage items dont teleport there. Increasing diesel pump price will have immense cost pressure across entire SG in unbelievable ways. Lets see what the authorities gonna do: would they kill another set of chicken in the year of chicks?

With the vw scandal manufacturer specs ???? It's proven that the so called clean diesel tech so far is not really what it is . Anyway I encourage the authorities just like p i cars to do an actual test on emission and see if it complies .

[merc280v6]

Auctioneer:

 

I repeat again, all the emissions data quoted for Euro6 diesel exhaust are for new cars, tested at factory.

It is a published fact that diesel engines' efficiency drops way faster that gasoline engines after a few years and become much more polluting thereafter.

Governents monitor real world, on road exhaust emissions!

So please stop quoting those nonsensical figures!

 

And you are awfully outdated on bunker fuel - which will be legislated to IMO-spec 0.5%S LSFO by 2020 and 0.1%S for the OECD's ECA regions.

 

The growth of MGO (Marine Gasoil), for bunkering, is all but uncertain, when clean-dirty spreads narrow post-IMO legislation.