COE refinements to be finalised in next few weeks

[Simplecar]

A gap of mere 7k brtween mass n elite markets..... Brilliant lor... well done, LTA :D

In GRADES, the difference between A and B is also 1 mark.

How else do you want to draw the line between Cat A and Cat B?

[Simplecar]

They have the figures. If you ask your MP to table in Parliament, you can get the answers in the open. But what purpose does this serve? That you dont believe LTA?

[Brx]

thats why lo.. he say to differentiate using brands.. like discriminating also...

 

Having a Cat A and Cat B is a discrimination to begin with.

 

The question is WHY and HOW?

 

Why?

Is it so that buyers of larger cars pay more in COE?

or

Is it so that buyers of expensive makes pay more in COE?

 

and the WHY will define the HOW...

 

How?

- Engine Cap?

- Wheel Base length?

- BHP?

- Colour?

- Marque?

- Model?

- Market value?

 

 

I would say that the least inaccurate way is to go by OMV. If they can find out what is the globally accepted BHP for an engine to prevent de-tuning to falsely position in the wrong category, I am sure they can find out what is the globally accepted market value of any make to prevent under-declaring of OMV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Simplecar]

i think so far, everyone miss out 1 possible factor for consideration...--> fuel tank size!!...

As if we buy cars based on fuel tank sizes. Not me, at least.

[Carnoob]

the straitstimes thing on conti brands stands 70% for CAT A thing... bull s--t...

 

no raw data no talk...

 

Agree, all numbers without supporting facts. I applauded LTA for their bravery to roll this tweak out but I disagree with the tweak simply because

 

1. Who to verify the bhp?

2. How about parallel importer are they subjected to checks?

3. Can they mod the car to higher bhp after stock purchase and how do LTA monitor the mod since ECU can be re-flashed easily?

4. Since 90% of the cars are below OMV $20,000 then why not use OMV instead which will be 100%?

5. OMV fluctuate with currency but how often and how bad is the fluctuation?

6. OMV can fluctuate so can ECU, which is easier to monitor?

 

There is no social equity for COE, it should never be a social issue in the first place. Social equity vs COE premium reduction, just an excuse to keep COE high while addressing the "social equity".

 

Just hope that this social equity will bring about a reduction in COE premium. Let me state again, the purpose of COE premium reduction is not about letting more people buying cars but control inflation. If they want to keep COE premium high, please remove it from inflation just like what they did to petrol / diesel. Since oil is not included, why should COE premium?

 

If they had included oil price for inflation, our inflation rates will be higher and higher. Similarly for COE premium, if it is not controlled... well leave it out from inflation.

[Acemundo]

Agree, all numbers without supporting facts. I applauded LTA for their bravery to roll this tweak out but I disagree with the tweak simply because

5. OMV fluctuate with currency but how often and how bad is the fluctuation?

6. OMV can fluctuate so can ECU, which is easier to monitor?

 

There is no social equity for COE, it should never be a social issue in the first place. Social equity vs COE premium reduction, just an excuse to keep COE high while addressing the "social equity".

 

Just hope that this social equity will bring about a reduction in COE premium. Let me state again, the purpose of COE premium reduction is not about letting more people buying cars but control inflation. If they want to keep COE premium high, please remove it from inflation just like what they did to petrol / diesel. Since oil is not included, why should COE premium?

 

If they had included oil price for inflation, our inflation rates will be higher and higher. Similarly for COE premium, if it is not controlled... well leave it out from inflation.

 

agreed especially with your point 5 and 6. the omv fluctuations are actually not a lot and they used it as a reasons to throw the good suggestion out but put in place the ridiculous one of using bhp.

 

anyhow, it is ridiculous to address social equity planning with a medium like a car which is widely accepted as a luxury item. to help those not doing so well, rules should be designed to dissuade them from owning any car.

 

[Meanmachine]

Think today's Today got quote LTA say they will disallow import of detuned cars which have been declared as a more powerful car elsewhere.

 

 

Seems that it 's back to old drawing board of yester-year era.

 

in the late 70s/early 80s, many conti cars were without power-window and car alarm system and the car accessories make a killing, now to detuned car with navigation system originally installed will have repercussion.

[Simplecar]

agreed especially with your point 5 and 6. the omv fluctuations are actually not a lot and they used it as a reasons to throw the good suggestion out but put in place the ridiculous one of using bhp.

 

anyhow, it is ridiculous to address social equity planning with a medium like a car which is widely accepted as a luxury item. to help those not doing so well, rules should be designed to dissuade them from owning any car.

Because it is easier to manage the Categories based on BHP as these are production models. As long as the manufaturer declares the car with a certain BHP, it would suffice.

 

Any modification to the BHP could potentially be illegal. This will be taken up separately if LTA wants to and this is another topic for discussion.

[Carnoob]

... to help those not doing so well, rules should be designed to dissuade them from owning any car.

 

Agree with this point. Car is a luxury item, it always has and it always will be with a small country like Singapore. When did car become a necessity?

 

 

[Joseph22]

After all the set top box and jerky video feed and lousy customer service problems and... and... and you still stick with them?

My set top box no issue. Video not jerky. All those u mention I didn't encounter. Maybe because I

On fiber.

[Myxilplix]

Everybody jin angry siol.

 

Wait and see first lah, February 2014 is still some way off. Plus we don't really know for sure if CAT A will hold or drop. All theorycraft so much but within a week or two this thread will die off.

 

Nehmind lah, for now just use this thread to vent your frustrations, good for your blood pressure.

 

I feel like starting a poll on how this affects you guys personally, but still thinking about how to frame it.

[Carnoob]

Because it is easier to manage the Categories based on BHP as these are production models. As long as the manufaturer declares the car with a certain BHP, it would suffice.

 

Any modification to the BHP could potentially be illegal. This will be taken up separately if LTA wants to and this is another topic for discussion.

 

Yah, creating one problem with a solution. When can we move out from this viscous cycle? Can't we have a solution which will not create another in the future?

 

Both are same issues, we implement without considering execution, same story with haze. Brought up during ASEAN, decide to implement but nobody to execute.

 

Please lah, resolve it holistically not always half-cooked and leave it till things happen. But I agree this is not the discussion thread to bring up modification.

 

More and more resolutions I see are very short term, we seriously lack the foresight our forefathers have.

 

We NEED to think further

[RadX]

Everybody jin angry siol.

 

Wait and see first lah, February 2014 is still some way off. Plus we don't really know for sure if CAT A will hold or drop. All theorycraft so much but within a week or two this thread will die off.

 

Nehmind lah, for now just use this thread to vent your frustrations, good for your blood pressure.

 

I feel like starting a poll on how this affects you guys personally, but still thinking about how to frame it.

 

Dun anyhow start thread la

 

Let all settle here

 

[Tonyng]

I am fairly neutral on bringing social equity into COE policies

 

But as many citizens called for this, I am assessing this policy change not on whether it was needed, but whether it achieved what it was aimed for

 

And on this aspect I think it did achieve the target elegantly. All the luxury brands were 'promoted' leaving the Japanese and Korean cars to fight it out.

 

How it actually pans out no one knows

 

But at least you cannot blame the luxury brands anymore for high Cat A coes

 

 

I agree with you totally.

 

Policy endpoint also important - and you don't sound confident that Cat A prices will be drop much. (And for the record, me too)

 

So my point we cannot say this is a good move.

 

Plus we are disappointed LTA got so much feedback, taxpapers pay so much to scholars to come up this anti-competitive tweak to benefit jap car salespeople.

 

On this background, I say this is a really silly move.

 

 

 

[Knoobie]

Having a Cat A and Cat B is a discrimination to begin with.

 

The question is WHY and HOW?

 

Why?

Is it so that buyers of larger cars pay more in COE?

or

Is it so that buyers of expensive makes pay more in COE?

 

and the WHY will define the HOW...

 

How?

- Engine Cap?

- Wheel Base length?

- BHP?

- Colour?

- Marque?

- Model?

- Market value?

 

 

I would say that the least inaccurate way is to go by OMV. If they can find out what is the globally accepted BHP for an engine to prevent de-tuning to falsely position in the wrong category, I am sure they can find out what is the globally accepted market value of any make to prevent under-declaring of OMV.

maybe it is discriminating in the first place.

 

but if you have the benchmark based on CC/BHP/OMV, it is always better than by brands.. which is what he suggested..

 

like toyota, they do come up with cheap and lower specs models (altis).. at the same time, luxurious models.. (mark X, 86)..

 

so to go by brand, is totally a discriminating to the brand and country that it comes from which will invite unnecessary tension in foreign affairs..

[Knoobie]

Agree, all numbers without supporting facts. I applauded LTA for their bravery to roll this tweak out but I disagree with the tweak simply because

 

1. Who to verify the bhp?

2. How about parallel importer are they subjected to checks?

3. Can they mod the car to higher bhp after stock purchase and how do LTA monitor the mod since ECU can be re-flashed easily?

4. Since 90% of the cars are below OMV $20,000 then why not use OMV instead which will be 100%?

5. OMV fluctuate with currency but how often and how bad is the fluctuation?

6. OMV can fluctuate so can ECU, which is easier to monitor?

 

There is no social equity for COE, it should never be a social issue in the first place. Social equity vs COE premium reduction, just an excuse to keep COE high while addressing the "social equity".

 

Just hope that this social equity will bring about a reduction in COE premium. Let me state again, the purpose of COE premium reduction is not about letting more people buying cars but control inflation. If they want to keep COE premium high, please remove it from inflation just like what they did to petrol / diesel. Since oil is not included, why should COE premium?

 

If they had included oil price for inflation, our inflation rates will be higher and higher. Similarly for COE premium, if it is not controlled... well leave it out from inflation.

 

 

i too agree with using OMV as a better bench mark... since the word "luxurious" is tied together with $$ in the first place. then there should be a benchmark where certain dollars = luxurious.. rather than, your car faster thats why luxurious..

 

but then again.. let's hope no one go bring these up to LTA again.. otherwise, we have no idea what "pattern" they will chut again...

[Knoobie]

Because it is easier to manage the Categories based on BHP as these are production models. As long as the manufaturer declares the car with a certain BHP, it would suffice.

 

Any modification to the BHP could potentially be illegal. This will be taken up separately if LTA wants to and this is another topic for discussion.

according to LTA, changing of exhaust have effects on handling...

 

i don't see why same car cannot belong to different CAT of COE should the OMV flunctuates even..

last time we also got honda civic 1.6,2.0.. also same model but diff CAT..

 

 

[Throttle2]