Evening traffic jam vs No evening ERP. Choose 1

[Mason016]

Yay! Maybe old news but foreign registered vehicle pay $5 for flat rate erp!

 

http://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltaweb/en/roads-and-motoring/driving-in-and-out-of-singapore/fixed-erp-fee-for-foreign-registered-vehicles.html

[Hydrocarbon]

not entirely true. COE is the fundamental mechanism to allow a forecastable number of new cars to be put on the road. ERP is the second mechanism to subsequently manipulate existing car population away from certain road areas to manage congestion.

 

imagine tomorrow the govt announce no more COE, what will happen? BMW 3 series at $150K, wah so cheap, everybody wants to own a beemer. toyota altis at $70K, mai tu liao. there will no longer be an absolute on/off mechanism to control incremental car population and i think the consequence is not difficult to imagine. even if high (but not exorbitant high) ERP is implemented by then, i believe it will already be less effective because drivers will still drive the hell out of the car that they already paid for.

 

i'm thinking perhaps if GPS-based ERP toll charging is implemented, it may be a way to do away with COE. let's say if a driver is being charged by mileage the moment his car started moving (like taxi), they will think twice before using their cars unnecessarily. on top of that, to discourage cars from entering CBD or certain congested areas, an exorbitant one-time toll like $100 may be charged. with this system, i think even if car prices are made really affordable, car owners will think thrice every time they start their engine. it transforms car ownership from a capex-based to a utility-based expenditure.

 

and since i'm not a politician, i'm not worried about what political and social backlash this mad plan will create heh heh.

 

From a privacy perspective, no. While I'm not in any illegal biz or doing any illegal activities, I'm against such tracking.

 

Understand that such things are a trickle down phenomena. From car and motorcycle tracking, what's to stop them from tracking bicycles or even head toward people tracking in future? Human beings will adapt to changes, as long as they're not too drastic.. Let's not even take the first step in such tracking.

 

(Although, we can roughly be tracked now, based on our HP's signal / GPS signal, it's still not openly available to the government now)

[Kb27]

LTA should just build a elite highway. For those willing to pay $10 a pop, let them in.

[Hotshot85]

 

not entirely true. COE is the fundamental mechanism to allow a forecastable number of new cars to be put on the road. ERP is the second mechanism to subsequently manipulate existing car population away from certain road areas to manage congestion.

 

imagine tomorrow the govt announce no more COE, what will happen? BMW 3 series at $150K, wah so cheap, everybody wants to own a beemer. toyota altis at $70K, mai tu liao. there will no longer be an absolute on/off mechanism to control incremental car population and i think the consequence is not difficult to imagine. even if high (but not exorbitant high) ERP is implemented by then, i believe it will already be less effective because drivers will still drive the hell out of the car that they already paid for.

 

i'm thinking perhaps if GPS-based ERP toll charging is implemented, it may be a way to do away with COE. let's say if a driver is being charged by mileage the moment his car started moving (like taxi), they will think twice before using their cars unnecessarily. on top of that, to discourage cars from entering CBD or certain congested areas, an exorbitant one-time toll like $100 may be charged. with this system, i think even if car prices are made really affordable, car owners will think thrice every time they start their engine. it transforms car ownership from a capex-based to a utility-based expenditure.

 

and since i'm not a politician, i'm not worried about what political and social backlash this mad plan will create heh heh.

 

Not entirely true either. Just because the government hypothetically decides to scrap COE, doesn't mean overnight the whole population owns a car. $70K Altis is still pretty expensive to the common man, and $70K for an Altis can still buy at least 2 Altis-es elsewhere. I'm VERY sure that there will still be people thinking like that, plus not to mention, we still have this 50% dp ruling.

 

Fact of the matter is, better road infrastructure as well as diluting the city centre is gonna alleviate "jams" much much more than imposing ERP and pretending there's nothing wrong.

[Kxbc]

 

Not entirely true either. Just because the government hypothetically decides to scrap COE, doesn't mean overnight the whole population owns a car. $70K Altis is still pretty expensive to the common man, and $70K for an Altis can still buy at least 2 Altis-es elsewhere. I'm VERY sure that there will still be people thinking like that, plus not to mention, we still have this 50% dp ruling.

 

Fact of the matter is, better road infrastructure as well as diluting the city centre is gonna alleviate "jams" much much more than imposing ERP and pretending there's nothing wrong.

 

then no COE but increase ERP rates and no car loan allowed. That should curb car population increase somewhat.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kxbc

[Nodtviedt]

 

then no COE but increase ERP rates and no car loan allowed. That should curb car population increase somewhat.

 

 

I think the cost of parking will sky rocket!

[Stevle]

between the two, i'll pick paying for ERP any time. as they say, if you can afford to buy a car in SG, you should also be able to afford the toll.

 

perhaps due to the different perspectives from my biz travels within asia, i don't really feel that traffic jams in SG are that big a deal despite all the rants. if you've been to jakarta, manila, beijing or any busy cities in india, you'll be so grateful driving in SG peak hour traffic. like my foreign colleagues like to say, "traffic jams in SG, are you kidding me?"

 

I agree with your point. Was in Nanjing last month and from the bullet train station to the hotel was just 6.1km or 4 "MRT" stop away. Because of heavy luggage, me and my colleague decided to the cab. We started our ride on the cab and it took 45 minute to reach the hotel....

[Hshs]

Authorities say that ERP is to control traffic conditions to optimise traffic flow. And that is why they installed evening ERP so that we can all stagger our journey timings home.

 

Would you support no evening ERP (maybe except for Orchard Road area) and run the high risk of being stuck in traffic jams or stick with existing situation?

I choose ERP. But scrap the road tax first.

[Thaiyotakamli]

there was once i was in a south asian country capital city. my car only moved prob 200m in 45 min.

I was once caught in jam in lornie road about 15 min for 200m distance, i already about to call LTA already

 

then no COE but increase ERP rates and no car loan allowed. That should curb car population increase somewhat.

 

New biz by that time, carpark business

I choose ERP. But scrap the road tax first.

Road tax and erp ok, for me subsidize the petrol will be better, then i can buy 3.5L V6 car

[Hiphiphoray]

Phew.......dont have to pass under any ERP gantry for both OC & me to/fro our work place.

 

Heng ahhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

[Hshs]

between the two, i'll pick paying for ERP any time. as they say, if you can afford to buy a car in SG, you should also be able to afford the toll.

 

perhaps due to the different perspectives from my biz travels within asia, i don't really feel that traffic jams in SG are that big a deal despite all the rants. if you've been to jakarta, manila, beijing or any busy cities in india, you'll be so grateful driving in SG peak hour traffic. like my foreign colleagues like to say, "traffic jams in SG, are you kidding me?"

 

Our car population is control by amount of COE. That why our car price is the world highest.

We can't compare with other Asian country. We paid the high vehicle tax and COE. They have

do something to ease the jam. Don't just only put up ERP.

 

 

[Hshs]

I was once caught in jam in lornie road about 15 min for 200m distance, i already about to call LTA already

 

New biz by that time, carpark business

 

Road tax and erp ok, for me subsidize the petrol will be better, then i can buy 3.5L V6 car

JB pump have 50% discount.

[Topspin]

between the two, i'll pick paying for ERP any time. as they say, if you can afford to buy a car in SG, you should also be able to afford the toll.

 

perhaps due to the different perspectives from my biz travels within asia, i don't really feel that traffic jams in SG are that big a deal despite all the rants. if you've been to jakarta, manila, beijing or any busy cities in india, you'll be so grateful driving in SG peak hour traffic. like my foreign colleagues like to say, "traffic jams in SG, are you kidding me?"

 

 

Where do you live?

 

The "in-tolerance" to traffic jams to me is proportional to the car price/taxes.

 

If the cars here cost the same as Jkt or Manila or Beijing, heck to jams. I will be taking fun rides in a LS600h/ Merc S etc at 5 am, two hours later take MRT to work.

[Nzy]

 

then no COE but increase ERP rates and no car loan allowed. That should curb car population increase somewhat.

 

 

Instead of seeing less cars on the roads, you'll see more MIC and MIK cars if there is no COE. Those that cannot afford will go for those MIC cars which should not be much of a problem even if full cash cuz COE makes up the bulk of the price.

 

Even with the 50% downpayment rule now, many still can afford, a MIC car without COE should be cheaper than the 50% DP.

[Nightkids]

Authorities say that ERP is to control traffic conditions to optimise traffic flow. And that is why they installed evening ERP so that we can all stagger our journey timings home.

 

Would you support no evening ERP (maybe except for Orchard Road area) and run the high risk of being stuck in traffic jams or stick with existing situation?

Do We REALLY have a CHOICE ?

 

Do we ?!!

 

Maybe we do....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in 2016...

[Acemundo]

 

not entirely true. COE is the fundamental mechanism to allow a forecastable number of new cars to be put on the road. ERP is the second mechanism to subsequently manipulate existing car population away from certain road areas to manage congestion.

 

 

yours is the textbook reply. but if you understand economics of opportunity cost you will realise that if anyone who bought the car and don't use it, he is losing the opportunity cost. tying the car to coe with fixed lifespan, means the coe value will depreciate if one doesn't use it, he loses the value of it. if he uses it, he consumes the value of it. hence the coe actually encourages them to drive the car out onto any roads and therefore negates the erp who persuades people to keep the car out of those designated roads.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Acemundo

[Hydrocarbon]

LTA should just build a elite highway. For those willing to pay $10 a pop, let them in.

 

$10 not enough, have you seen the number of Lamborghini / Ferrari / Bentley / Maserati / etc on the road? Their right foot step a little more, the $10 gone. Besides, no jam, their FC better, so they'd already save the fuel costs by going on the "premium" highway. Another thing is the exits. So many of them will stay at the same place, so exit liao, all jam there, isn't it the same?

 

then no COE but increase ERP rates and no car loan allowed. That should curb car population increase somewhat.

 

You'll see all the QQs and Picantos coming back. Even if no loan, those who can afford a 3 series or so now on 50% DP, will be able to pay off a Lancer / Vios or better anyway, so, car population will increase. Plus those who bought with high COE will scrap their cars and just buy a new car.

[Vhtfhwlego]

there was once i was in a south asian country capital city. my car only moved prob 200m in 45 min.

3 times in Singapore.

 

- During Mas Selamat escape, thinking of going JB, called LTA hotline, reported no jam.

Upon arrival at Woodlands CP, for 2 hours, move around 1km.

U-Turn by driving over kerb.

 

- PIE towards Jurong.

15 seconds journey lasted me 2.15hours.

Trailer (Woodlands Group) had flipped over at Adam Flyerover.

 

- Keppel Viaduct.

From Harbourfront to keppel, not moving for 45mins.

Until someone had managed to unblocked the restricted lane towards PSA port, I managed to squeeze thru and escape the jam.

But met with another jam at Lower Delta junction.

 

Total time, 2.45hrs from original 45mins.