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Glyuen

New Audi A3 Sedan - "only premium petrol sedan under Cat A"

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Conventional wisdom will never go wrong. All conti cars can write of besides Mercedes.

Japanese cars are very reliable.

There are 2 LRT Lines in Singapire. One built by German. And one built by Japanese. Which one is reliable? The one is in the East.

Exactly, I hope more people think like you & support Japanese cars.

 

Then, we will not have Japanese Dealers complain in a few years time, & demand to change COE system (again) as their cars are not selling well compare to other brands, due to unfair advantages like others having higher quality interior, more features, more powerful engine, at comparable prices.

Edited by Kiadaw
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Exactly, I hope more people think like you & support Japanese cars.

 

Then, we will not have Japanese Dealers complain in a few years time, & demand to change COE system (again) as their cars are not selling well compare to other brands, due to unfair advantages like others having higher quality interior, more features, more powerful engine, at comparable prices.

Really! Then, good luck to you.

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Singapore is a unique country in which you have people (actually, it's car dealers) kpkb about competitors bringing in better built cars at affordable prices, at the same price point or even lower than sparsely featured cars to the masses.

 

People were made to believe that these are "luxury" cars when in fact they were B&B entry level cars and there must be "social equity" for car buyers who are "stucked" due to high COE = inability to buy sparsely built cars selling at record high prices.

Edited by Kangadrool

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Lotsa opinions on individual choices of cars. Why?

 

Buy whatever makes you happy. We're all buying cars at inflated prices, relative to everywhere else in the world anyway.

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Exactly, I hope more people think like you & support Japanese cars.

 

Then, we will not have Japanese Dealers complain in a few years time, & demand to change COE system (again) as their cars are not selling well compare to other brands, due to unfair advantages like others having higher quality interior, more features, more powerful engine, at comparable prices.

 

I think the main reason is dealer like BM has been bring in lowered specs Toyota car for the sake of lowering the OMV and thus making handsome profits. It is not that Toyota does not made cars with higher specs, one aspect is also the safety features that is lacking in typically Jap cars and their car is mostly light weight and thus save fuel in long run! <_<

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Lotsa opinions on individual choices of cars. Why?

 

Buy whatever makes you happy. We're all buying cars at inflated prices, relative to everywhere else in the world anyway.

 

How dare everyone else buy cars I don't approve of!

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All Audis just look too similar nowadays. They are very beautiful cars but don't seem to age well with time unlike Merc and BMW. Nice biz strategy though to take the corolla market.

Just received Audi promotional email for their new A3 Sedan.

 

Looks good. Suits badge whores perfectly.

 

http://www.a3sedan.sg/#/intro

 

704x396_aa3_131002.jpg

 

Anyone buying? [sly]

 

 

 

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I think the main reason is dealer like BM has been bring in lowered specs Toyota car for the sake of lowering the OMV and thus making handsome profits. It is not that Toyota does not made cars with higher specs, one aspect is also the safety features that is lacking in typically Jap cars and their car is mostly light weight and thus save fuel in long run! <_<

Juz look at other country's Altis spec for 1.6L and u will know that it is lower than equivalent VW.

 

 

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Juz look at other country's Altis spec for 1.6L and u will know that it is lower than equivalent VW.

 

 

Japanese car makers are not interested this tiny market.

VW is just a normal family car in China.

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Japanese car makers are not interested this tiny market.

VW is just a normal family car in China.

Toyota aims to be number 1 in whichever mkt it has presence.

 

VW has always been B&B car in Germany.

 

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Until today, many B&B 1.6L Japanese cars still don't get it right as far as safety is concern.

 

I mean how much more expensive is it to kit the mid rear seat with proper 3-point seat belt and a adjustable headrest? And I am not delving into airbags.................

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A drivers' car has got nothing to do with power specs lah.

An RWD Alfa 75 will out-handle the FIAT (oops! I mean Alfa) 159 any day.

SAABs were never deemed a drivers' car, not the Aero, Troll, nor even the Griffin!

I think what a drivers car should be is probably based on individual driving preferences. However, preferences aside, the minimum power specs definately play a part. Eg; when driving an entry conti like 3 series and you floor the accelerator, it moves like a tortoise(slow). It's borderline luxury(basic), only it's handling is decent. Overall? Drivers car? Probably not. But still everyone buys it.(common among wannabes who actually think they are driving a real conti)

 

Comparing to its similar class, bought by ppl who don't buy based on badge, the "cold door" contis like SAAB 9-3/Alfa 159/Volvo s60, would leave it in the dust. (and have a more engaging drive) Anyone who thinks an entry BMW/VW/Audi etc has a good drive, you frankly need to try a lot more cars.

 

True, Alfa probably has lost some of its drive after being taken over by fiat. Nonetheless still an engaging spirited drive that 3 series or a4 can only hope to have. SAAB was bankrupt but it held on to it's saabishness without being influenced by GM(watch top gear). Race one along the expressway and it will be home before a 3series/a4/ vw even reaches the next exit.

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You are correct if you are comparing solely on price, that the entry premium contis are slow and do not offer much sporty performance and creature comforts over the Saab and Alfa. This is excepting the A4 1.8T multitronic. This is their lowest base model for the B8 sedan, and it still offers an acceptable level of performance and comfort comparable to Saab 9-3, 9-5 and Alfa 159.

 

But if based on comparable engine class, then the situation changes.

 

Saab 9-3, 9-5, Alfa 159, etc must be compared to at least A4 1.8T MU, 320i F30, and C200 7-G CGI.

 

When you look at acceleration timings, the Germans, at this comparable base level, do beat the Saab and Alfa. On the skidpad for testing of handling, the lateral Gs also beat the Swede and Alfa.

 

We are not even talking about the more highly-strung A4 2.0T Quattro S-tronic, the 328i (2.0L turbo), or the C250 (1.8L turbo) which will smoke the Saab and Alfa flat in straight line acceleration.

 

That said, if price and value for money performance is the overriding factor in the purchase of a conti sedan, I would always choose pre-owned almost new units of the A4 1.8/2.0T, BMW 320i/328i, or Merc C200/250 instead of brand new Saab and Alfa, if going for the same price.

 

Unless your final criteria is that all car choices must be brand new, then I got nothing else to say, you are absolutely correct that Saab and Alfa are better value for money than 316i or C180 1.6L kompressor for performance concerns. But not by much, I must remind you!

Edited by Viceroymenthol

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I think what a drivers car should be is probably based on individual driving preferences. However, preferences aside, the minimum power specs definately play a part. Eg; when driving an entry conti like 3 series and you floor the accelerator, it moves like a tortoise(slow). It's borderline luxury(basic), only it's handling is decent. Overall? Drivers car? Probably not. But still everyone buys it.(common among wannabes who actually think they are driving a real conti)

 

Comparing to its similar class, bought by ppl who don't buy based on badge, the "cold door" contis like SAAB 9-3/Alfa 159/Volvo s60, would leave it in the dust. (and have a more engaging drive) Anyone who thinks an entry BMW/VW/Audi etc has a good drive, you frankly need to try a lot more cars.

 

True, Alfa probably has lost some of its drive after being taken over by fiat. Nonetheless still an engaging spirited drive that 3 series or a4 can only hope to have. SAAB was bankrupt but it held on to it's saabishness without being influenced by GM(watch top gear). Race one along the expressway and it will be home before a 3series/a4/ vw even reaches the next exit.

 

I agree with you on the pwr part. Pwr to weight ratio has to be below 10kg per hp.

 

On other hand, RWD is more engaging to drive that FWD or AWD.

 

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You are correct if you are comparing solely on price, that the entry premium contis are slow and do not offer much sporty performance and creature comforts over the Saab and Alfa. This is excepting the A4 1.8T multitronic. This is their lowest base model for the B8 sedan, and it still offers an acceptable level of performance and comfort comparable to Saab 9-3, 9-5 and Alfa 159.

 

But if based on comparable engine class, then the situation changes.

 

Saab 9-3, 9-5, Alfa 159, etc must be compared to at least A4 1.8T MU, 320i F30, and C200 7-G CGI.

 

When you look at acceleration timings, the Germans, at this comparable base level, do beat the Saab and Alfa. On the skidpad for testing of handling, the lateral Gs also beat the Swede and Alfa.

 

We are not even talking about the more highly-strung A4 2.0T Quattro S-tronic, the 328i (2.0L turbo), or the C250 (1.8L turbo) which will smoke the Saab and Alfa flat in straight line acceleration.

 

That said, if price and value for money performance is the overriding factor in the purchase of a conti sedan, I would always choose pre-owned almost new units of the A4 1.8/2.0T, BMW 320i/328i, or Merc C200/250 instead of brand new Saab and Alfa, if going for the same price.

 

Unless your final criteria is that all car choices must be brand new, then I got nothing else to say, you are absolutely correct that Saab and Alfa are better value for money than 316i or C180 1.6L kompressor for performance concerns. But not by much, I must remind you!

As the Saab 9-3 alfa 159 are old / end of life models, I feel that they should be compare against the bmw E90, the older Merc C200K and the A41.8T instead.

 

I was planing to change my alfa 159 few years back, and I test drove the older e90 bmw320, a4 1.8t and merc c200k.

In the end I still stick to my "problematic" alfa as the those 3 Germans didn't not match my expectation. The rwd 320 handle just a tiny bit better then the alfa, but fall short of engine power. The merc is comfortable, but it feels slower then the power figure suggests and the handling isn't good. The a4 1.8t is a confusing car in my opinion, trying to be sporty and comfortable but didn't fare well in either sector, engine and gearbox is a let down.

 

Paper figures in acceleration timing and power/ torque sometimes can be very different in real life conditions

 

But one thing I agree with you. The Germans does a good job in their higher range models, that is a feat that the Volvo, Saab & alfa can't match currently. It's only the lower/ basic models that I feel that there are other car makers that does a better job then the Germans.

 

My 2 cents worth

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What many seek in a drivers' car is control - ultimate control ..... power is useless without control.

And perhaps that is the holy grail that many have sought, but few have achieved.

 

Watch this video showing how the E46 triumphs over the Alfa on control.

 

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Here, the test shows that a FWD Alfa can match or even beat RWD BMW in the handling test.

 

Anyway, all these talk is deviating away from the original topic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek

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