Anyone got car left 3-4 months want to get rid of?

[Jusnel]

Thinking of getting Wish or Stream and renew 5 year COE

 

Is it really worth, compared to buying brand new?

 

Wish and Stream seem to be pretty reliable cars and could last for 15 years

[Irongiant89]

Can anybody advice on the following. Thinking of getting a second hand car but deciding on COE car (just renewed 5 years) or PARF car left about 1-2 years. 

 

COE car looking at vios, lancer, civic.

Parf looking at picanto, lancer, vios, jazz.

 

What are the pros and cons? is COE car more worthwhile now?

[toycamry]

Can anybody advice on the following. Thinking of getting a second hand car but deciding on COE car (just renewed 5 years) or PARF car left about 1-2 years. 

 

COE car looking at vios, lancer, civic.

Parf looking at picanto, lancer, vios, jazz.

 

What are the pros and cons? is COE car more worthwhile now?

 

I thought of getting a car with 1-2 years of COE left, but have since scrapped the idea. 

 

Why you should NOT get a car with 1-2 years COE left:

 

1) The COE for a 2007-2008 car was about $10-15k (approximate, dont need to shoot me down for this), and including the ARF, etc, the car should not have cost more than $100k when new.

 

However, these cars are now being sold at a depreciation of about $10k (for 1.6L e.g. Altis) and about $12k (for 2.0). Simple maths for the 1.6L car - $10 000 x 10 yrs = $100k. $100k + 6k (PARF value) = $106k. The car was definitely not bought at $106k in 2007 or 2008. So what you would be doing is to 'subsidise' the first owner, who, due to the fault in the system back then, has in fact made a profit.

 

Btw, a $10k depreciation works out to $27/day just to say you own the piece of metal. Excluding road tax, insurance, parking, petrol.

 

2) If you look at depreciation values ($10k) and the price of a 2009 car now, the situation is even worse. This is because, in that year, COEs were really cheap. Some ads on SGcarmart just put a dash for the COE price.

 

3) It seems that regardless of the car brand, the depreciation for a car with 1-2 years COE left are almost all the same ($10k). It is really a good time to make a killing.

 

4) Don't be fooled by thinking that a 1.6L car (1-2 yrs COE left) is more worth getting than a 2L car. e.g. A Sep 2007 Altis may be advertised for $16k, while a Camry for $26k. Putting aside your ability to pay more upfront for the Camry, fuel consumption preferences, etc. both have the same depreciation. Again, all cars have about the same depreciation.

 

Why you should NOT get a car which is sold with its COE renewed:

 

1) The most obvious reason is YOU ARE PAYING FOR the car's PARF, body, and if bought from a dealer, what ever profit margin the dealer wants to rip from you.

 

As an example, I went down to view a Camry, advertised for $51k with 5 years COE. Wah.. So cheap!

 

Here's the breakdown which the dealer will give you:

 

PARF:$15.4k

Body: $2k

COE: $28.5k

 

Total: $45.9k

 

How to account for the extra $5.1k? At this stage the auntie dealer who had been typing on her calculator paused, before adding that the car was in very good condition, the air con is cold, etc. 

 

Why should you pay for the 'body' which will be worthless at the 15th year, and the PARF which the previous owner or the dealer enjoys? An NOBODY will ever be foolish enough to sell their car at anything less that the 'PARF plus body value'. 

 

Why don't you try to call up scrap yards and ask if they can take in a Camry for $2k, or is this an estimate from the moon?

 

Other Thoughts

 

1) It used to be that 'continental cars' have 'no value' near the end of their 10th year. But do a quick search on sgcarmart, and yes, they still command depreciation in the $10k range. Despite all the stories about parts not available or take a long time to import from the country of origin, the model no longer in production, etc. Again, be wary. The car price may seem 'cheap' but really calculate the depreciation to decide, apart from potential maintainence issues.

 

2) The fact is, an old car is an old car. Even the best and cleanest looking car might have a gasket leak somewhere. Some things can be discovered if you send the car for an AA inspection, but ask the AA inspector, and he would honestly admit that even for the thoroughness of their inspection, there are parts of the car which they cannot access and cannot tell you whether a problem might develop a day, week, month or year later.

 

3) All car dealers will say 'This car cannot discount / cannot discount so much cos we took in at high price'. So what the f does that have to do with you? Or they may advertise 'Owner upgrading to BMW'. Wow. And what the f does that have to do with you? Or they may say 'One single lady owner only!'. Hmm.. How many times mount kerb or...? Of course this applies to male drivers as well, but who will bother to read this.

 

 

So what is the problem here?

 

These 8 - 10 year old cars are being sold at the depreciation value of new cars in 2016 (and even then, you might find the depreciation of new cars are slightly lower than the 8-10 year old cars). Of course the 'smaller' number like 28k may seem more accesible to some people and taking into account financial abilities, etc.

 

Which second hand cars are worth buying?

 

My humble opinion is those in 2013 onwards only (i.e. 3 year old and younger car). The COE had skyrocketed in 2013 and the 10k depreciation is justified. If you decide to scrap the car at the 5th year, you still get a decent COE rebate and PARF.

 

Otherwise, if there is no real need for the car, take public transport. Uber, Grab, etc are killing each other to the benefit of consumers. Busses and trains generally come on time; other countries really have much worse public transport.

 

 

These are just my opinions and I have made many generalisations (e.g. the costs etc.) but I am sure most of them are relatively accurate.

 

Happy car hunting.

[Hosaybo]

Long analysis, and what you say are not wrong. but old car selling high and people still buy shows many have empty or shallow pocket but die die wants a car. It will go down provided everyone think like you, which is unlikely.

[Vinceng]

@toycamry,

 

I would say getting a brand new car and drive for 10 years is best, as the depreciation is lowest.

 

Used car depreciation, irregardless of age, is higher than that of a brand new car.

[seriouslehh]

I have a 2006 black markx 2.5A for sale.

 

Registration Date: 26 Jan 2007

Minimum PARF Upon Scrap : $15559

Mileage: 150k+

 

No repairs required till scrap.

 

Asking Price is $18000, about 600 depre per mth. Should be available in 1 to 2 weeks, after I collect my new car.

 

Text me at 9oneone83one87 if interested.

[toycamry]

Long analysis, and what you say are not wrong. but old car selling high and people still buy shows many have empty or shallow pocket but die die wants a car. It will go down provided everyone think like you, which is unlikely.

 

I agree with you bro. That's why many 'older' second-hand cars are still being sold despite their high depreciation values.

 

End of the day, if the buyer is ok with the price, its his / her choice.

[Ingenius]

So one should not buy any house today because it used to cost a pittance many years ago ?

[newone]

So one should not buy any house today because it used to cost a pittance many years ago ?

 

a house doesn't depreciate the way a car depreciate, in particular in land scarce Singapore.

[minion]

So one should not buy any house today because it used to cost a pittance many years ago ?

 

 

buying a used car is more comparable to buying a used phone.

house is not necessary a depreciating asset. house is more comparable to other investments.

[Metalslug2]

If ideally one has $100-130k cash for a bread and butter car to pay in full, then yes everyone should just get a brand new ride as depreciation is the lowest.

 

But not everyone has that ability. And taking a loan already is higher depreciation, after letting the banks earn due to rule of 78.

 

By not getting a brand new ride, and just goin for 2nd hand car, even though depreciation is higher, one can save alot in terms of monthly expenses. 

 

if one is prudent enough, you can own an overseas condo by year 5 with a 2nd hand ride (2 moves here). if you went the new car route, at the end of year 5, you would only have a fully paid up depreciated asset called a car = only 1 move.

 

And to me that is the opportunity cost of money.

 

* and of course the dealer has to include the remaining parf value (10-15k) when he sell you the renewed COE car, else he would have scrapped it already and save the hassle. After you count everything, is a few ks for their margin - also to handle lemon law, etc. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Metalslug2

[Metalslug2]

Selling my Civic 1.6A registered 24 June 2007.

 

Min Parf = $9,864.00

Am 2nd owner, fully serviced at KM by 1st owner. Rear shocks are newly changed, only 1 yr old. 

Engine oil changed, ATF changed, brake pads changed just a few months ago. 

Comes with Push Start Button, USB player and original 3M car mat.

 

Pls PM me to discuss.   

$9,864.00

[Galantspeedz]

Long analysis, and what you say are not wrong. but old car selling high and people still buy shows many have empty or shallow pocket but die die wants a car. It will go down provided everyone think like you, which is unlikely.

 

don't generalise

If ideally one has $100-130k cash for a bread and butter car to pay in full, then yes everyone should just get a brand new ride as depreciation is the lowest.

 

 

i will still get a 2nd hand car

[13177]

Which second hand cars are worth buying?

 

My humble opinion is those in 2013 onwards only (i.e. 3 year old and younger car). The COE had skyrocketed in 2013 and the 10k depreciation is justified. If you decide to scrap the car at the 5th year, you still get a decent COE rebate and PARF.

 

Otherwise, if there is no real need for the car, take public transport. Uber, Grab, etc are killing each other to the benefit of consumers. Busses and trains generally come on time; other countries really have much worse public transport.

 

 

These are just my opinions and I have made many generalisations (e.g. the costs etc.) but I am sure most of them are relatively accurate.

 

Happy car hunting.

If you buy used car from 2013 onwards, price also not cheap. Example 2013 altis average selling price is about 80k plus. People would then say if i pay 80k for one used car, i might as well get a brand new car which the price difference might be the same or not much difference. Lol.

[Jusnel]

I thought of getting a car with 1-2 years of COE left, but have since scrapped the idea. 

 

Why you should NOT get a car with 1-2 years COE left:

 

1) The COE for a 2007-2008 car was about $10-15k (approximate, dont need to shoot me down for this), and including the ARF, etc, the car should not have cost more than $100k when new.

 

However, these cars are now being sold at a depreciation of about $10k (for 1.6L e.g. Altis) and about $12k (for 2.0). Simple maths for the 1.6L car - $10 000 x 10 yrs = $100k. $100k + 6k (PARF value) = $106k. The car was definitely not bought at $106k in 2007 or 2008. So what you would be doing is to 'subsidise' the first owner, who, due to the fault in the system back then, has in fact made a profit.

 

Btw, a $10k depreciation works out to $27/day just to say you own the piece of metal. Excluding road tax, insurance, parking, petrol.

 

2) If you look at depreciation values ($10k) and the price of a 2009 car now, the situation is even worse. This is because, in that year, COEs were really cheap. Some ads on SGcarmart just put a dash for the COE price.

 

3) It seems that regardless of the car brand, the depreciation for a car with 1-2 years COE left are almost all the same ($10k). It is really a good time to make a killing.

 

4) Don't be fooled by thinking that a 1.6L car (1-2 yrs COE left) is more worth getting than a 2L car. e.g. A Sep 2007 Altis may be advertised for $16k, while a Camry for $26k. Putting aside your ability to pay more upfront for the Camry, fuel consumption preferences, etc. both have the same depreciation. Again, all cars have about the same depreciation.

 

Why you should NOT get a car which is sold with its COE renewed:

 

1) The most obvious reason is YOU ARE PAYING FOR the car's PARF, body, and if bought from a dealer, what ever profit margin the dealer wants to rip from you.

 

As an example, I went down to view a Camry, advertised for $51k with 5 years COE. Wah.. So cheap!

 

Here's the breakdown which the dealer will give you:

 

PARF:$15.4k

Body: $2k

COE: $28.5k

 

Total: $45.9k

 

How to account for the extra $5.1k? At this stage the auntie dealer who had been typing on her calculator paused, before adding that the car was in very good condition, the air con is cold, etc. 

 

Why should you pay for the 'body' which will be worthless at the 15th year, and the PARF which the previous owner or the dealer enjoys? An NOBODY will ever be foolish enough to sell their car at anything less that the 'PARF plus body value'. 

 

Why don't you try to call up scrap yards and ask if they can take in a Camry for $2k, or is this an estimate from the moon?

 

Other Thoughts

 

1) It used to be that 'continental cars' have 'no value' near the end of their 10th year. But do a quick search on sgcarmart, and yes, they still command depreciation in the $10k range. Despite all the stories about parts not available or take a long time to import from the country of origin, the model no longer in production, etc. Again, be wary. The car price may seem 'cheap' but really calculate the depreciation to decide, apart from potential maintainence issues.

 

2) The fact is, an old car is an old car. Even the best and cleanest looking car might have a gasket leak somewhere. Some things can be discovered if you send the car for an AA inspection, but ask the AA inspector, and he would honestly admit that even for the thoroughness of their inspection, there are parts of the car which they cannot access and cannot tell you whether a problem might develop a day, week, month or year later.

 

3) All car dealers will say 'This car cannot discount / cannot discount so much cos we took in at high price'. So what the f does that have to do with you? Or they may advertise 'Owner upgrading to BMW'. Wow. And what the f does that have to do with you? Or they may say 'One single lady owner only!'. Hmm.. How many times mount kerb or...? Of course this applies to male drivers as well, but who will bother to read this.

 

 

So what is the problem here?

 

These 8 - 10 year old cars are being sold at the depreciation value of new cars in 2016 (and even then, you might find the depreciation of new cars are slightly lower than the 8-10 year old cars). Of course the 'smaller' number like 28k may seem more accesible to some people and taking into account financial abilities, etc.

 

Which second hand cars are worth buying?

 

My humble opinion is those in 2013 onwards only (i.e. 3 year old and younger car). The COE had skyrocketed in 2013 and the 10k depreciation is justified. If you decide to scrap the car at the 5th year, you still get a decent COE rebate and PARF.

 

Otherwise, if there is no real need for the car, take public transport. Uber, Grab, etc are killing each other to the benefit of consumers. Busses and trains generally come on time; other countries really have much worse public transport.

 

 

These are just my opinions and I have made many generalisations (e.g. the costs etc.) but I am sure most of them are relatively accurate.

 

Happy car hunting.

 

agreed with most of your points.

 

3 things to highlight:

 

1. Always buy from direct owner.  Never deal with car dealers unless the dealer gives reasonable warranty to the car.

 

2. Cars left with 1-2 years.  You need to remember the PARF value that you will be getting back at 10th year.  if a car is asking for $15k with one year left. and the PARF is $10k. I think its worth paying for this. But if the car is asking for 20k with PARF 10k, then you got to negotiate the price down.

 

3. Some ppl like to buy old cars, not because they have no money. its because they want to pay in full and not feeding the banks. This point brings back to my point 1 about buying from direct owners, because they can negotiate for lower price and just pay in full.  Of course some car dealers are more desperate to sell, so this is the opportunity to cut their throats. 

 

If you buy a new car, you are paying at least about $7k-$8k of interests to the banks, and at same time, the so called new car depreciate like hell in the first few years. If you need to sell off, you lose your pants.

 

We only talk about numbers here.  Exclude the argument that new car got new smell, new experience, got face, blah blah blah.

[nakajima]

Direct buyer here looking for 30 cars. Vios/Altis/Wish/Camry/Jazz/Stream all very welcome. Offering DEPRECIATION OF $600-$900 PER MONTH. OTHER MAKES pls pm me for more info. No Sunnys though. But I wish you a Sunny weekend :) Prefer 3 months - 1 year balance. Reasonable and fast buyer, successfully closed 70+ cars with MCFers here. PM Me for more info

[Lee Jik Lek]

hey boys and gals,

got a red, OCT 2007 alfa 159 selespeed for sales, , parf got 19k++++++

working well,  tyre, battery, brake pad - new (2016 change), mounting also change liao, services by AS Peter (passionate Alfa guy) for last 4 yrs..so all record have with them.

only thing is the display panel lighting spoil - did not want to replace, coz cost 1K+ i can see, just that at night will be hard to read.. but generally if not too bother, is fine. and car lower backguard break a bit - not critical part, can actually tear away or put sticker,.....

good car, stylo milo..and really, only a tough brave man can handle an alfa ! if u can handle an alfa, u can drive any car..

interested pls leave a pm ya.. i looking for $500/mth (depending when you buy lah) + parf, neg... 

can even extend COE drive longer !

 

thanks all

[cmcex]

CAR BODY WANTED!!!!

 

MAZDA 3 / MAZDA 3 GT & HB / MAZDA 2

 

 

SMS Details To 9.7.7.4 1.1.5.7

1. Full Carplate

2. Last 5 Characters of IC,

3. Mileage

4. Interior Color

 

Pls text for other make/model not listed here. Thank You.