Audi A3 Sedan/Sportsback Owners - Check In

[7hm]

@7hm 

 

Yes I understand the entry level issue and till now I still feel that the true entry level for premium european brands are A4/C-class/3-series .

Is the A4 1.4 Good enough? I feel like if get an A4 but dont get the 2.0 like not strong enough... anyway Tomorrow I will try the A4 as well.. really tempting but 30000$ more is really too much ha ha.. 

 

If the 2.0TFSI is out of your price range, then strike it off completely. There is no need to get a 2.0TFSI A4, but of course for the extra money you are getting 100 more horses and better equipment levels.

 

I wouldn't worry about the 148hp struggling too much with the A4, it is reasonably lightweight for its size and this engine by VAG is pretty good.

 

It probably won't have a sub 8s century sprint, but with the torquey low end, it shouldn't take forever to get rolling either.

 

And yes, I would agree with you on the true entry point. But, for Audi, it is the A4, while the A6 is meant more as a E-class and BMW 5 series competitor. The A4 winds up competing with the C-class and BMW 3-series, but the A4 is actually a larger car and is shares much of its bases with the also-mid-sized Volkswagen Passat (which is slightly longer). The A3 is more akin to the Golf/Jetta and competes mainly with the Mercedes CLA (also because the A3 sedan is marketed as stylish) or A-Class, or BMW 1-series, while the BMW 2AT is bigger than the A3SB.

The CLA is more expensive as Mercedes in Singapore targets a slightly level higher crowd in Singapore. I actually find that BMW is the lowest priced of the big 3 German premium marques.

 

 

Though, do you mind me asking why you have decided to go on the premium conti route? Not considering the middle class marques?

 

IMHO

The a3 is a value for money car. The A4 is significantly more costly.

It uses a more powerful 1.4t, has a bit more room and is made in Germany. It uses a wet clutch design.

The cabin has more features but it's about 20k more. Only you can decide if that's worth it.

It's the cheapest of the three marques. A Merc Cla will cost another 20k more for example.

 

CLA 180 is not worth it at all. And the A3 saloon is more comfortable based on most reviews.

But as this guy says, you should take note of the A4 using a wet-clutch DSG if you feel that is worrying.

[littlecar]

Hi, just to clarify, it's the dry clutch that is the issue, not the wet clutch right? So if that's a concern, one should get the A4 over the A3.

 

If the 2.0TFSI is out of your price range, then strike it off completely. There is no need to get a 2.0TFSI A4, but of course for the extra money you are getting 100 more horses and better equipment levels.

 

I wouldn't worry about the 148hp struggling too much with the A4, it is reasonably lightweight for its size and this engine by VAG is pretty good.

 

It probably won't have a sub 8s century sprint, but with the torquey low end, it shouldn't take forever to get rolling either.

 

And yes, I would agree with you on the true entry point. But, for Audi, it is the A4, while the A6 is meant more as a E-class and BMW 5 series competitor. The A4 winds up competing with the C-class and BMW 3-series, but the A4 is actually a larger car and is shares much of its bases with the also-mid-sized Volkswagen Passat (which is slightly longer). The A3 is more akin to the Golf/Jetta and competes mainly with the Mercedes CLA (also because the A3 sedan is marketed as stylish) or A-Class, or BMW 1-series, while the BMW 2AT is bigger than the A3SB.

The CLA is more expensive as Mercedes in Singapore targets a slightly level higher crowd in Singapore. I actually find that BMW is the lowest priced of the big 3 German premium marques.

 

 

Though, do you mind me asking why you have decided to go on the premium conti route? Not considering the middle class marques?

 

 

CLA 180 is not worth it at all. And the A3 saloon is more comfortable based on most reviews.

But as this guy says, you should take note of the A4 using a wet-clutch DSG if you feel that is worrying.

 

[zerobim08]

@zerobim08 

 

But the A4 is only 1.4 as well, really contemplating whether is there a difference. 

 

 

 

There is a link at my post's signature area which gives a good breakdown of performance of both A3 and A4.  You may want to take a look at that.  I think for city driving, there is not much different.  Of course, you have to test drive both cars to get a feel for yourself.  But dont expect race car performance figures but more than adequate for city driving.  You wont have problems leaving behind most of the Jap/Kor at the traffic lights :)

 

I think both cars use the same new generation belt driven 1.4L base engine.  I think the A4 has additional hardware bolted on to support the variable valvelift capability. And the A4 version is tuned for a bit more power.  Gearbox is also different.  And the A4 has the longitudinal engine layout (presumably for better weight distribution and space to support bigger engines/gearbox/quattro variants).  

 

If look at the A3/A4 park side by side, you can see the a lot of the extra length of the A4 is at the bonnet area (due to longitudinal layout).  Strangely, A4 is a much bigger car but from the interior room specs, the figures doesnt seem much better than A3.

 

What other differences?

- A4 has the paid option for the nifty Virtual Cockpit

- A4 MMI supports Apple play (mirrorcast??)

[Passion]

Actually, if have the juice, go for A4. It is a more premium car that comes with more functionality. For A4, their 1.4L is a 150bhp engine, not the one in A3, which is 125bhp. As for is it enough to pull the car, I can tell you, it fair better than any Japanese car. Initial pulling away from traffic light may feel lethargic, but shortly, it will overtake all Japanese car. On highway, slightly more pressure on the pedal will send the car zooming forward.

 

I'm not sure how 216d looks like, I suppose is a "MPV" like vehicle? Since someone mentioned like Honda Jazz, then I supposed is the MPV version, not the one Rui En drove and got into accident. If want buy a BMW, in my opinion, should either go for the entry 318 if juice is a concern, if not don't buy BMW.

 

We all here cannot advise you what car to buy, after all is your preference and your juice. Just a few advice I can offer, if you are afraid of dry clutch or wet clutch, then don't even look at Audi. If you have juice constraint, then I suggest you go for premium Japanese car. No known gearbox issue, cheaper in overall, and best bang for buck. To buy a conti, prepared to pay tonnes to maintain.

[thedryvr]

Just to add, the facelifted A3 will likely get the Apple CarPlay too, but a smaller engine that has less power (~113bhp) and more fuel efficient.

 

The A3 rear can sit 2 relatively well, but 3 is a squeeze but ok for short distance. Of course, A4 beats that easily.

 

Both cars have good usable torque for their size, and as zerobim08 said, it's more than sufficient for daily use.

 

If you need the extra space, die die need new model and have budget to spare, go for the A4. If not, you won't be disappointed with the A3 either. It's more comfortable and far cheaper than a CLA, looks good (upsize the rims!)... And the build quality is hard to fault at its price point.

 

Personally, I don't suggest stretching budget just to buy a car. But money no object, I'd take A4 over A3.

[thedryvr]

As for whether Audi A3/A4 are looked down as "entry level", don't let yourself be sucked into it.

 

You buy Hyundai, people say you can't afford Toyota. You buy Toyota, people ask why not Lexus. You buy Lexus, people think you can't afford real conti like Audi, BMW, Merc.

 

If 3 series and A4 owners see small 1 series or A3/A1, its only because they want to feel good themselves... for longest time they were subjected to the same from 5 series owners perhaps. :p

 

even if one day you can buy Ferrari California, people also will say entry level and you no money afford real Ferrari.

Edited September 7, 2016 by thedryvr

[vbchia]

Over the weekend I went and tested the A4 1.4L. It's going for $153,999 at the moment. In terms of engine specs, it's a slightly updated version of the same EA211 on the A3. Power rating is 150 Bhp and 250nm of torque. DSG 7 speed (dry clutch).

 

Specs wise it's has apple play although you'll need PA to do a swop for android and a lot of other bells and whistle not found on the A3. In terms of handling, it felt more agile probably due to the ECU programming difference.

 

Dimension wise, width is slightly wider at the rear bench compared to the A3 but with loads more of legroom due to the MBL platform. Worth considering.

 

 

[zerobim08]

As for whether Audi A3/A4 are looked down as "entry level", don't let yourself be sucked into it.

 

You buy Hyundai, people say you can't afford Toyota. You buy Toyota, people ask why not Lexus. You buy Lexus, people think you can't afford real conti like Audi, BMW, Merc.

 

If 3 series and A4 owners see small 1 series or A3/A1, its only because they want to feel good themselves... for longest time they were subjected to the same from 5 series owners perhaps. :p

 

even if one day you can buy Ferrari California, people also will say entry level and you no money afford real Ferrari.

 

Pay attention to those who look down on you then you will feel bad.

Ignore them and go by happily then they will in turn feel bad because their ego/snobbishness is not acknowledged.

 

My humble opinion to any car buyers is - just buy the car you feel most excited about in owning (within the boundary of your constraints).  At the end of the day you are the one who is driving and come in contact with the car everyday.  

 

I think it is much rewarding to get a car you feel excited and good about  than getting a car which you are indifferent to by following the advice/dis-advice of those self-profess-know-it-all-expert-naysayer in the forums or elsewhere.

Edited September 7, 2016 by zerobim08

[inlinesix]

As for whether Audi A3/A4 are looked down as "entry level", don't let yourself be sucked into it.

 

You buy Hyundai, people say you can't afford Toyota. You buy Toyota, people ask why not Lexus. You buy Lexus, people think you can't afford real conti like Audi, BMW, Merc.

 

If 3 series and A4 owners see small 1 series or A3/A1, its only because they want to feel good themselves... for longest time they were subjected to the same from 5 series owners perhaps. :p

 

even if one day you can buy Ferrari California, people also will say entry level and you no money afford real Ferrari.

 

Nobody gonna look down on S3/S4 or RS3/RS4.

 

[zerobim08]

Nobody gonna look down on S3/S4 or RS3/RS4.

 

 

Most cannot tell the difference between the S and A prefix.  

 

Sell all your internal organs and go all in for R8.  Then you can smirk on all those beemers or mercs. 

[7hm]

Hi, just to clarify, it's the dry clutch that is the issue, not the wet clutch right? So if that's a concern, one should get the A4 over the A3.

 

well, that's the belief. That the lack of lubrication in dry clutch cannot tahan our local driving conditions which consist of more stop and go than Europe typically exposes their cars to.

 

The official answer is that it is incorrect oil corroding mechatronics units in the car combined with local conditions.

 

I recently polled a VW 7-speed DSG (same as in A3) owner who hasn't had the issue for the first year, and as you might have noticed @zerobim08 has had a problem free affair with their A3.

 

 

I'm not sure how 216d looks like, I suppose is a "MPV" like vehicle? Since someone mentioned like Honda Jazz, then I supposed is the MPV version, not the one Rui En drove and got into accident. If want buy a BMW, in my opinion, should either go for the entry 318 if juice is a concern, if not don't buy BMW.

 

it's a so-called mini-MPV. So it looks more portly and taller than a traditional hatchback, but it really is more like a jumbo hatch. It looks really awkward, especially for a BMW, but it is far more practical than any of the normal hatches.

 

compared to:

 

Call me an outlier, but I prefer the look of the 2AT. The A3SB is just a bit too plain for my taste - in fact, I think the Golf 1.4 Sport EQP is prettier, and I even prefer the touchscreen interface used by the Volkswagen, though the A3's screen hideaway is a neat trick.

 

 

 

As for whether Audi A3/A4 are looked down as "entry level", don't let yourself be sucked into it.

 

You buy Hyundai, people say you can't afford Toyota. You buy Toyota, people ask why not Lexus. You buy Lexus, people think you can't afford real conti like Audi, BMW, Merc.

 

If 3 series and A4 owners see small 1 series or A3/A1, its only because they want to feel good themselves... for longest time they were subjected to the same from 5 series owners perhaps. :p

 

even if one day you can buy Ferrari California, people also will say entry level and you no money afford real Ferrari.

 

Mine is something with little, maybe nonexistent brand recognition. But I feel every bit good with it.

But the message here is clear... get what you like and what you feel is reasonable.

Edited September 7, 2016 by 7hm

[kcng]

Test drive A4 1.4, quite smooth driving experiences, but the pricing wise may not attractive enough if compare to A3, lots of things are optional for A4 1.4 version, 2.0 came with better spec, but much expensive.

 

My SE told me A3 will become 1.0liter next year?! 

[zerobim08]

well, that's the belief. That the lack of lubrication in dry clutch cannot tahan our local driving conditions which consist of more stop and go than Europe typically exposes their cars to.

 

The official answer is that it is incorrect oil corroding mechatronics units in the car combined with local conditions.

 

I recently polled a VW 7-speed DSG (same as in A3) owner who hasn't had the issue for the first year, and as you might have noticed @zerobim08 has had a problem free affair with their A3.

 

 

Frankly, I think it is quite misleading that the "wet" clutch (i.e. oil) makes a lot of difference.  The oil is just lubricating the clutch - well the clutch is just high strength solid metal plates and can't be damaged that easily by heat / friction even if it is not lubricated.

 

The main issue I think is the heat generated by clutch plates not being dissipated fast enough.  I think the "wet" clutch is not totally immune either since there is no cooling mechanism for the clutch lubrication oil and the little amount of oil could do little to absorb the heat under extreme conditions. 

 

The official reason given for 7dsg is that the heat caused the synthetic oil to turn caustic thus corroding the mechatronic unit (not the clutch) in the gearbox.  I think this is a very plausible explanation.   In general I think the culprit is the the heat which can reduce the lifespan of the mechanical/electronic components in the gearbox. 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by zerobim08

[7hm]

Frankly, I think it is quite misleading that the "wet" clutch (i.e. oil) makes a lot of difference.  The oil is just lubricating the clutch - well the clutch is just high strength solid metal plates and can't be damaged that easily by heat / friction even if it is not lubricated.

 

The main issue I think is the heat generated by clutch plates not being dissipated fast enough.  I think the "wet" clutch is not totally immune either since there is no cooling mechanism for the clutch lubrication oil and the little amount of oil could do little to absorb the heat under extreme conditions.  

The official reason given for 7dsg is that the heat caused the synthetic oil to turn caustic thus corroding the mechatronic unit (not the clutch) in the gearbox.  I think this is a very plausible explanation.   In general I think the culprit is the the heat which can reduce the lifespan of the mechanical/electronic components in the gearbox. 

 

hence why I say it is the "belief" and also provide the official explanation.

With the oil in the transmission though, when the heat builds up, some of it will be wicked away by the oil and cool the clutch plates somewhat. It is definitely cooler running as the oil will have better thermal absorption properties and also dissipate more heat elsewhere, to the transmission casing?

 

I obviously can't say how much difference the wet-clutch makes, but also the fact that it is lubricated does mean less wear and tear on the clutches. Having two metal objects of equal hardness grabbing onto each other is no doubt a recipe for wear.

[zerobim08]

hence why I say it is the "belief" and also provide the official explanation.

With the oil in the transmission though, when the heat builds up, some of it will be wicked away by the oil and cool the clutch plates somewhat. It is definitely cooler running as the oil will have better thermal absorption properties and also dissipate more heat elsewhere, to the transmission casing?

 

I obviously can't say how much difference the wet-clutch makes, but also the fact that it is lubricated does mean less wear and tear on the clutches. Having two metal objects of equal hardness grabbing onto each other is no doubt a recipe for wear.

Heat is dissipated to the casing by oil and for the dry clutch via air.

 

I think the main advantage of the wet clutch is when the clutch is engaged the grab of the plates will be less intense when the torque is highest (at low gear) giving a smoother shift. Not so much difference on the wear of the plates.

[zerobim08]

Test drive A4 1.4, quite smooth driving experiences, but the pricing wise may not attractive enough if compare to A3, lots of things are optional for A4 1.4 version, 2.0 came with better spec, but much expensive.

 

My SE told me A3 will become 1.0liter next year?!

If really one litre then not so good. Maybe will lose 10-15hp and 50Nm of torque. Maybe the century sprint will go up from 9 to 11 sec.

[thedryvr]

@kcng the SE told me the same about 1.0l. Not sure if they will stick to just 1 engine variant or do 2 though, like how the A4 has 1.4L and 2.0L. I read that the 1.0L will be 113bhp and 200Nm, with similar 0-100kmh time.

 

To keep cost competitive, Audi tends to keep to minimum spec. The keyless entry, electric seat, start stop button, drive select over last year seem to be included for this year to keep sales up... And with a lower price, it does help move quite a few units.

Edited September 7, 2016 by thedryvr

[zerobim08]

@kcng the SE told me the same about 1.0l. Not sure if they will stick to just 1 engine variant or do 2 though, like how the A4 has 1.4L and 2.0L. I read that the 1.0L will be 113bhp and 200Nm, with similar 0-100kmh time.

 

To keep cost competitive, Audi tends to keep to minimum spec. The keyless entry, electric seat, start stop button, drive select over last year seem to be included for this year to keep sales up... And with a lower price, it does help move quite a few units.

Think they will be one variant to keep it in cat A. Otherwise you have the same car in cat A and b which can be confusing to buyers. And the larger engine version will have the same performance specs as the a4 may not be good for the image of a4.