2015 Dec, 1st COE Bidding Exercise

[flashbang]

For the first 6 years of working life, didn't buy car..saved enough then buy house.

 

Bought first car after working for 8 years and then car was cheap.. 53k and main reason is wife office is 30km away and no mrt nearby.

 

If it's current day 100k above, would have bouht it 10-12 years.

 

I grew up in a family that's quite ok financially, but family here in Singapore don't have car bec grandparents who took care of me can't drive, so me and them took bus from young till late 20s and seldom take cab.

 

If I find it a strain financially, my 2 kids would be taking bus, mrt, or maximum taxi with me.

 

All these things about fairness on COE and whatever to me is rubbish bec if u can afford it, buy it. Cannot afford and still wanna borrow and buy, it's individual choice but don't complain

 

Anyway I bought my cars, houses with all my own work salary savings.. live within means la. What is fairness?? Think twice about your children's education fund, your own retirement funds first before spending on items that expire in 10 years.

Can afford = buy.

Can't afford = save.

 

Some people talk like owning a car is a right. It's a privilege you earn through working hard. If not, why not ask government make the HDB cost 5k instead of 500k? Like that everybody can buy one. Then no need to work hard anymore, there is no distinction between hard workers and others.

[Showster]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

That means the proposal is for Cat E to be removed.

 

But Cat E does serve a purpose for immediate registration. I believe the longest a dealer can hoard this is half year so it will ultimately be returned to sales and especially with a trend dipping downwards, dealers ultimately have to translate them into cars soon.

 

 

I think he means Cat E COE should not be transferable to another person before the car is registered. Once the car is registered, any sale would transfer the entire car with COE to the next owner.

 

[Throttle2]

Can afford = buy.

Can't afford = save.

 

Some people talk like owning a car is a right. It's a privilege you earn through working hard. If not, why not ask government make the HDB cost 5k instead of 500k? Like that everybody can buy one. Then no need to work hard anymore, there is no distinction between hard workers and others.

 

[Pioneer]

Actually, have you ever know of anyone who was denied health care because they are poor? I have a hunch that government hospital have to write off debts every year because the patients cannot afford to pay. This is from my experience from another govt services.

 

I am in the govt service and I have seen how financial assistance are given freely because we given the benefit of the doubt to the applicant.

 

I have seen a family submit an application for financial assistance, declaring they have zero gross income. They too get the subsidy they applied for.

 

Something are never announced loudly in the public because we don't want people to abuse the system.

 

 

Look at it from this angle: we are living in $ingapore.

 

Hence, there is absolutely no problem with the current COE system. It works. 

 

Don't count on the government to help you unless you are totally down in the dumps. Work hard and earn money to keep you and your family going in spite of the changing circumstances. Hard truths. Don't forget the saying, "In $ingapore, can afford to die but cannot afford to fall sick".

 

But so far, most of the proposals are too simplistic, like tying COE price to omv. This is a static tax and over time will prove pointless as people get used to it.

 

Exactly what good ideas have come out so far? I cannot think of anything.

 

FYI: I don't have 3 cars but I have 1 proper functional brain.

 

Sometimes the Govt does step in if it is deemed to improve social welfare. In areas such as housing or medical, the system might be tweaked to enable access. 

 

But for cars, my opinion is the same as yours. No need to loosen or tighten anything if everything works fine. It is not a necessity for most people under most conditions. The proposals to tighten have so far been made by other forummers. 

 

[2BDriver]

You are just a "Tripod", no car talk about COE

Engage don't hide your agenda MF !

Edited December 16, 2015 by 2BDriver

[Pioneer]

When has car ownership been complicated mess?

 

You choose a car, go to showroom, test drive, pay deposit, complete admin process, take car. It's the people trapped in their own mind.

 

If you cannot afford a new car, you can:

• Buy an old one, even if annual dep is higher, it is still cheaper at point of purchase
• Buy a cheaper model that cost lest than $90k, then you complain bo hua coz COE cost more than car, even though the absolute cost is lower.

 

You tell me who is making difficult? 

 

Let me use an analogy, a chio bu can choose rich, good-looking and smart man to date and marry. Her friend, not very chio one, complains that it is so hard to find such man to date. Some of the man who likes her are rich but not very smart, or smart but not very rich. She doesn't want to commit to anyone but someone that her chio bu friend is dating.

 

The she complains that good man are so hard to come by, maybe govt should step in to distribute the good man to people like her.

 

 

COE is high because enough people are willing to pay for it. It will drop when no one buys like the times when it hit 10k+. Car ownership has to be expensive even if one day that means I am priced out of the market. 

 

There are many who agree with your personal ideas. Seems very obvious how a simple and transparent system should be. Car ownership has been an expensive and complicated mess.

No, they will not do anything because they have an excuse "no matter how we tune COE, people are not happy".

 

[flashbang]

Actually, have you ever know of anyone who was denied health care because they are poor? I have a hunch that government hospital have to write off debts every year because the patients cannot afford to pay. This is from my experience from another govt services.

 

I am in the govt service and I have seen how financial assistance are given freely because we given the benefit of the doubt to the applicant.

 

I have seen a family submit an application for financial assistance, declaring they have zero gross income. They too get the subsidy they applied for.

 

Something are never announced loudly in the public because we don't want people to abuse the system.

 

 

 

If so, that is good to know as it shows our government is still helping those who are really struggling in life due to unfortunate circumstances. The same cannot be said about people who own cars. As you know, SG is a "free market", and we like to justify things by using "market forces" as a reason. Implementing policies to directly target prices is quite unthinkable as SG likes to tweak related policies to achieve their desired outcome. Eg. min 40%/50% downpayment policy in order to curb the demand of cars. ABSD of 7% for second property immediately brought the property market down.

[Pioneer]

Haha.. this market force is a bit "hmm... you also know la".

 

I noticed that in SG, telecoms offer strikingly similar plans with strikingly similar pricing. Petrol Companies also follow the same trend and so does the taxis. 

 

I guess because the govt has remained unchanged all these while, the methods they used are always the same. "Don't rock the boat" mentality ba.

 

 

If so, that is good to know as it shows our government is still helping those who are really struggling in life due to unfortunate circumstances. The same cannot be said about people who own cars. As you know, SG is a "free market", and we like to justify things by using "market forces" as a reason. Implementing policies to directly target prices is quite unthinkable as SG likes to tweak related policies to achieve their desired outcome. Eg. min 40%/50% downpayment policy in order to curb the demand of cars. ABSD of 7% for second property immediately brought the property market down.

 

[flashbang]

Haha.. this market force is a bit "hmm... you also know la".

 

I noticed that in SG, telecoms offer strikingly similar plans with strikingly similar pricing. Petrol Companies also follow the same trend and so does the taxis. 

 

I guess because the govt has remained unchanged all these while, the methods they used are always the same. "Don't rock the boat" mentality ba.

 

You know

 

I know

 

Everybody knows.

 

[Imac]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/16/live-wall-street-eyes-fed-meeting-for-liftoff.html

 

The Federal Reserve raised its target federal funds rate on Wednesday to a range of 0.25 to 0.5 percent, the first increase since June 29, 2006.

 

Those still waiting for COE to drop...better book your car now...secure your loan before local bank rate goes up.

 

 

[Forte3737]

Can afford = buy.

Can't afford = save.

 

Some people talk like owning a car is a right. It's a privilege you earn through working hard. If not, why not ask government make the HDB cost 5k instead of 500k? Like that everybody can buy one. Then no need to work hard anymore, there is no distinction between hard workers and others.

And there are some ridiculous proposals about COE system. These people ought to be shot. Cannot afford, just live with mrt n bus.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/16/live-wall-street-eyes-fed-meeting-for-liftoff.html

 

The Federal Reserve raised its target federal funds rate on Wednesday to a range of 0.25 to 0.5 percent, the first increase since June 29, 2006.

 

Those still waiting for COE to drop...better book your car now...secure your loan before local bank rate goes up.

Those who can afford has already bought at car expo. The rest of them still have cars that will expire 2016 onwards

[Kar_lover]

Right now, the COE bidders are not paying for the COE.  In fact, the higher they bid, the more they earn from interest.

I'm personally in the buyer should bid own COE camp.  

Car distributors should only sell cars.  They should not be allowed to profit from COE.

 

 

Maybe COE should be a % of OMV?  No need small or big car category as the final amount will be affected by OMV.

Buyers of luxury cars pay more, buyers of small cars pay less.

 

E.g.

COE is at 200% of OMV

Buyer A's car is 20K OMV, COE becomes 40K.

Buyer B's car is 50K OMV, COE becomes 100K.

 

Huh? COE bidders are not paying for COE? Then who is paying?? All payments come from the buyer whether they pay directly by self-bid or paid inclusively into the price of the car. And i REALLY don't know what you mean the higher they bid, the more they earn from interest. What interest? For your info, they also make loss from COE. At the end of the day profit is profit. Even if buyers need to bid for their own COE, ADs can still increase their margin accordingly to sustain their profit level. How much profit do you think they can really make from COE. Seriously. They based their car price on the expected COE level - you can consistently see their price list risng and falling with COE more or less by the same amount of the change of COE. If they underprice they can't secure COE. If they overprice, their cars become too expensive. I am pretty sure the ADs will be more than happy to not have to bid COE for us. They don't need to keep on changing their selling price and do all kinds of projection/prediction of COE. No need to change price on a weekly basis. They can probably cut some headcount also. Life would be MUCH simpler for them, no?

 

Based on your example of COE as a % of OMV, so if 10,000 ppl all willing to pay the 200% of OMV then ALL 10,000 people will get the car?? COE is primarily a QUANTITY control system - the bidding part of it is to handle the ALLOCATION of the available COEs. If you fix the COE then how do you decide who to allocate the LIMITED number of COEs to the buyers? Lucky draw?

[Axela72]

after so long, cant u decipher from those recommendation that posted here? whether rational or irrational, the end in mind is to explore the mean on how to get the COE at cheaper price for those that couldn't or not willing to pay at their so call "high" price   

 

Different ppls has different classification as "high" in their own context. a 60k high COE to someone may not consider as "high" to another.

 

 

Even during the COE at 5k era, there are still some ppls holding back due to they are hoping that the COE systems might be abolished with zero COE in the near future due to the implementation on pay by the amount we ride from the satellite systems

 

Huh? COE bidders are not paying for COE? Then who is paying?? All payments come from the buyer whether they pay directly by self-bid or paid inclusively into the price of the car. And i REALLY don't know what you mean the higher they bid, the more they earn from interest. What interest? For your info, they also make loss from COE. At the end of the day profit is profit. Even if buyers need to bid for their own COE, ADs can still increase their margin accordingly to sustain their profit level. How much profit do you think they can really make from COE. Seriously. They based their car price on the expected COE level - you can consistently see their price list risng and falling with COE more or less by the same amount of the change of COE. If they underprice they can't secure COE. If they overprice, their cars become too expensive. I am pretty sure the ADs will be more than happy to not have to bid COE for us. They don't need to keep on changing their selling price and do all kinds of projection/prediction of COE. No need to change price on a weekly basis. They can probably cut some headcount also. Life would be MUCH simpler for them, no?

 

Based on your example of COE as a % of OMV, so if 10,000 ppl all willing to pay the 200% of OMV then ALL 10,000 people will get the car?? COE is primarily a QUANTITY control system - the bidding part of it is to handle the ALLOCATION of the available COEs. If you fix the COE then how do you decide who to allocate the LIMITED number of COEs to the buyers? Lucky draw?

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Axela72

[Mustank]

anyone knows when the next coe closing date?

[Kar_lover]

after so long, cant u decipher from those recommendation that posted here? whether rational or irrational, the end in mind is to explore the mean on how to get the COE at cheaper price for those that couldn't or not willing to pay at their so call "high" price   

 

Different ppls has different classification as "high" in their own context. a 60k high COE to someone may not consider as "high" to another.

 

 

Even during the COE at 5k era, there are still some ppls holding back due to they are hoping that the COE systems might be abolished with zero COE in the near future due to the implementation on pay by the amount we ride from the satellite systems

 

Ya i know. But forum is forum mah. If "irrational" posts are not highlighted ppl start to accept as the truth. So need to correct before too late. But yes one day i will give up lol.

[Axela72]

23rd Dec

 

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onemotoring/en/lta_information_guidelines/buy___sell_a_used/Ownership_Transfer/circulars_to_esas.MainPar.98105.collapsePar.94588.File.tmp/24_Oct_14.pdf

 

anyone knows when the next coe closing date?

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Axela72

[edwin15]

Huh? COE bidders are not paying for COE? Then who is paying?? All payments come from the buyer whether they pay directly by self-bid or paid inclusively into the price of the car. And i REALLY don't know what you mean the higher they bid, the more they earn from interest. What interest? For your info, they also make loss from COE. At the end of the day profit is profit. Even if buyers need to bid for their own COE, ADs can still increase their margin accordingly to sustain their profit level. How much profit do you think they can really make from COE. Seriously. They based their car price on the expected COE level - you can consistently see their price list risng and falling with COE more or less by the same amount of the change of COE. If they underprice they can't secure COE. If they overprice, their cars become too expensive. I am pretty sure the ADs will be more than happy to not have to bid COE for us. They don't need to keep on changing their selling price and do all kinds of projection/prediction of COE. No need to change price on a weekly basis. They can probably cut some headcount also. Life would be MUCH simpler for them, no?

 

Based on your example of COE as a % of OMV, so if 10,000 ppl all willing to pay the 200% of OMV then ALL 10,000 people will get the car?? COE is primarily a QUANTITY control system - the bidding part of it is to handle the ALLOCATION of the available COEs. If you fix the COE then how do you decide who to allocate the LIMITED number of COEs to the buyers? Lucky draw?

 

 

Just an interesting thought. What if COE bid is as a percentage of OMV rather than dollar value.

 

   

[Mustank]

23rd Dec

 

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onemotoring/en/lta_information_guidelines/buy___sell_a_used/Ownership_Transfer/circulars_to_esas.MainPar.98105.collapsePar.94588.File.tmp/24_Oct_14.pdf

 

many thanks!