Dealers and Consumers-The continuing SAGA Part III

[flashbang]

Good and smart car dealers like my car dealer friend will strongly encourage buyers to send the car to VIACOM / STA for inspection before negotiating on the price with him. This is the best way for car dealers to neutralize the Lemon Laws.

It's only if they intend to do a proper business. Good that he ensures the cars are inspected, that way buyer also cannot come back later and complain about a pre-existing problem that was accepted at point of sale.

[CarsEnthusiast]

It's only if they intend to do a proper business. Good that he ensures the cars are inspected, that way buyer also cannot come back later and complain about a pre-existing problem that was accepted at point of sale.

 

 

That's what set him apart from the rest of the other 99.99% car dealers in Sg and the only reason why I only promote his cars exclusively and refused to refer anyone to other car dealers. All my friends, relatives and colleagues bought their cars from him because they know they can sue him till his pants drop if there is anything wrong with his cars The ultimate safeguard is to buy your used and new cars from car dealers/parallel importers who are operating as sole proprietors with deep pockets. Unfortunately, only 0.01% of car dealers/parallel importers fit this profile.

Good point. One more reason why I don't understand some would reject even though the inspection fee will be paid by the buyer.

 

Dealer can also request for a copy of the report and make sure all in order.

 

That's why I don't trust any car dealer who refused to allow the car to be sent for inspection. Your 6th sense will tell you it is too risky to do business with them.

Edited December 17, 2015 by CarsEnthusiast

[Pioneer]

In that aspect, I agree with you. It is a norm to expect inspection before buying a car.

 

But we must balance our needs with the financial constraints of running a business. So far, we have assumed that this is a highly profitable industries where the truth is otherwise. 

 

Let's talk about admin fee. I used to hate it when I read this from the forum because I was given the impression this is extra money and now prospective buyers want to waive it. 

 

My response to it now is if the overall price of the car is cheaper with admin fee than one without. I will pay admin fee. Are you saying you will buy the more expensive car because it has no admin fee?

 

It is easy to say that all cars should be repaired and sent for inspection first but think about it for a second. 2nd hand cars are parked at the lot for weeks, months or even years.  No one knows when what parts will be damaged. It makes logistical sense to repair the car before it is sold to minimise incurred cost. Also, inspection by AA or STA are not welcome by all. Some buyers only trust their workshops and if the AA or STA cert was done a few months ago, how many buyers will want to trust the report or insist on a new report? That is added cost again.

 

Let me ask you, will you go to a posh workshop with free aircon, magazines and drinks to change your engine oil for $228 or that dark and oily workshop for $58?

 

 

The 'actions' are taken by buyers are influenced by what is discussed here. We can never legislate but we can influence behaviour of those who read and those within our spheres of influence.

 

I believe many newbies now know to ask for right inspection first. They also know how to bargain or reject hidden fees. They are more aware of the double dealing they can face.

 

One influence another and more act a certain way, demand a certain practice or action, and that is a 'market force'. The momentum has to build and spread.

 

Each must play a part.

 

[Pioneer]

So you are saying that I have no constructive posts or things to say until that very one post which was meant as a joke?

 

It does tell me what type of a person you are though. Oh well.... 

My doctor asked me to watch my drinking. Now I sit in front of the mirror in the pub.

 

An Englishman, Scottish and Irish walked into a car dealer.... Awww....nevermind this.

 

You have one warning now. Hope you see the funny side of it. 

 

@cscbb is right on the direction that we are heading. It is a good thing that we hear from both sides. If members like @JCSL, @allusedcardealersarecrooks and @civicfighter are willing to share their POV, it is only beneficial for all parties in the long run.

 

As for @Pioneer, I told you to leave this thread if you feel it is not worth your time. Now I have to enforce it.  

 

[The_Bear]

So you are saying that I have no constructive posts or things to say until that very one post which was meant as a joke?

 

It does tell me what type of a person you are though. Oh well.... 

 

I am glad we have come to a common understanding 

[Carnoob]

Why does he not ready all the units on the lot with AA inspection and declare the wear and tear from the outset?

 

Still old way of saving cost and 'don't ask, don't tell', right? Not full disclosure, right?

 

Does he ensure all maintenance receipts are current?

 

Besides, Vicom/STA are too surface level.

I would rather the dealer leave the selection of inspection center to me...

 

http://transport.asiaone.com/news/general/story/used-cars-true-state-shocks-buyer

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2650331-sta-kena-cpib-probe-for-bribery/

 

I just need them to agree for the inspection. AA inspection may be comprehensive but doesn't mean no corruption, or "tempered" proof. 

[CarsEnthusiast]

Why does he not ready all the units on the lot with AA inspection and declare the wear and tear from the outset?

 

Still old way of saving cost and 'don't ask, don't tell', right? Not full disclosure, right?

 

Does he ensure all maintenance receipts are current?

 

Besides, Vicom/STA are too surface level.

 

Well, if the buyer wants to do an AA inspection, there's no stopping him either. There is no necessity to do the inspection from the outset since it is infinitely better to do the inspection at the point of sale rather than have the buyer come and later claim the inspection is not valid anymore since the car has been sitting around for more than 6 months after inspection and wants to do another reinspection. Yes, buyers can be that unreasonable even if the car had not been test driven by other buyers and subjected to further wear and tear during that period.

 

It is not a case of don't ask, don't tell. In fact, it is no longer feasible to adopt this kind of attitude when the Lemon Laws are in full force. That's why it is so annoying to find so many car dealers still unwilling to change their attitude and service standards. Of course all the maintenance receipts will have to be current or else you will be giving buyers further grounds to press down on the price. I will remain neutral about the inspection standards of a public listed company like VICOM / STA  versus that of a private organization (AA) who have been trying ways and means to suck my money when I was an AA member for 19 years.

 

[Galantspeedz]

To be fair, I have not encountered any dealer that refuse to send the car to my appointed WS for inspection

[Yayapapaya]

I do not see any valid reasons y dealers will refuse to send car for inspection..unless they are hiding something..in fact most dealers will advise buyers to send for inspection due to lemon law issue..i only encounter cust not willing to pay for the inspection fee lol..so if u encounter such incident, simply walk off loh..its not the only car available mah..

[weebee]

I've bought vehicles directly from dealers, via consignment from dealers, and from direct sellers.

Also sold vehicles directly to dealers, and to direct buyers.

 

So far, I would say mostly positive. All transactions were done through sgcarmart posts. In fact, my first purchase from a dealer on sgcarmart was my best experience. Promised the sky, and delivered. Vehicle was spewing white smoke from exhaust when I saw the vehicle, but he promised it could be fixed. Turned out to be a timing chain mistimed issued. Fully rectified. Subsequently went back a few time to the dealer's mechanic friend for regular servicing too. Nothing but praises for that one. Was a small time dealer, with limited vehicles.

 

The other purchase via consignment.... experience was good before paying deposit, but became so-so on collection day. Promised to fix a few things, but on collection day, said cannot be fixed and just brushed it aside. LLST and take it, cos just minor issues. Transfer was done on the spot, quick and easy, no additional hidden fees either.

 

Buying from direct sellers has it's pros and cons, but I've made new contacts with the people I bought vehicles from.

 

Selling to dealers was fuss free. Some even drove to my place to check the vehicle and put deposit there and then. For the same price, I would definitely sell to a dealer. A lot less hassle of having to show the vehicle to direct buyers and letting them test drive.

 

There are a number of good dealers around I believe, but it takes some effort and lots of luck to come across them. The dealers really need to come up with a set of good market practice that all dealers must follow. For example, do away with any other fees. Dealers can demand a fee for their service since it's their source of income, but price everything in into the asking price. Buyers can then make a decision based on the price and condition of the vehicle.

 

As for buyers, don't expect used vehicles to be like brand new. Even brand new vehicles have their fair share of problems, so don't expect used vehicles to be totally flawless. Live with the flaws as long as the prices are acceptable. Be prepared to shell out more money to fix up the problems that might pop up.

[1fast1]

Edited topic title in line with the current Force Awakening!

 

 

AS it is, we have the DArk side here versus the chee....i...i mean JEdi...

 

You are the Darkest of the Dark Side lah, a real Shit Lord.

 

No typo.

[Lomobug]

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/agent-2nd-hand-dealer-took-my-%24-ran-away-5169283.html

 

for awareness of my predicament...

[Lomobug]

The log card only states the company reg number isn't it?

[Galantspeedz]

 

 

Let's talk about admin fee. I used to hate it when I read this from the forum because I was given the impression this is extra money and now prospective buyers want to waive it. 

 

My response to it now is if the overall price of the car is cheaper with admin fee than one without. I will pay admin fee. Are you saying you will buy the more expensive car because it has no admin fee?

 

Let me ask you, will you go to a posh workshop with free aircon, magazines and drinks to change your engine oil for $228 or that dark and oily workshop for $58?

 

Like i mentioned in previous thread, there are total 4 income stream.. car they sell, car they took as trade in, insurance comm and loan comm.... for majority of the cases...

 

so what is the admin fee for?

 

you now co relate admin fee to lower price.... but it is almost close to impossible for 2 cars to be exactly the same.... so how do you determine lower price? 

[Galantspeedz]

 

I don't understand: the reason for doing business should be to solve others' problems, to make their drives and trips more comfortable. To give them peace of mind everytime they use the car they bought from you. But dealers think they are gatekeepers to loans only. Fattest commissions and extract the most cash from gullible joes, and give them a vehicle which underwent no improvement under their care.

 

many years ago, a dealer ask me to help him out by taking a minimal loan.... i agreed and told him to source for best rates.. after that i went to do my own research and  i told him i will only take the loan from a specific bank because they were the only one without early settlement charges or tie in period........  he refused saying he does not do that company... it was one of the big banks..... 

 

so i told him... then i will not take loan....

 

on the day of car delivery..... he told me to give him kopi money..... i ask how much. he say $500', standard practice...... i say.. it must be very expensive coffee and laughed... then i told him don't waste my time.. he earned enough from me... and i took the keys, the car and left....

[Mrmilktooth]

many years ago, a dealer ask me to help him out by taking a minimal loan.... i agreed and told him to source for best rates.. after that i went to do my own research and  i told him i will only take the loan from a specific bank because they were the only one without early settlement charges or tie in period........  he refused saying he does not do that company... it was one of the big banks..... 

 

so i told him... then i will not take loan....

 

on the day of car delivery..... he told me to give him kopi money..... i ask how much. he say $500', standard practice...... i say.. it must be very expensive coffee and laughed... then i told him don't waste my time.. he earned enough from me... and i took the keys, the car and left....

 

bro, next time i change to used car, jio you go see see with me..

[CarsEnthusiast]

Dealers are unscrupulous when they tried to: -

 

1. Pretend they are direct sellers (intention unknown but common consumers' speculation will be car got problem don't want to cover under lemon law)

 

 

 

But if the dealer is a Sole Proprietor, he is effectively both the direct seller and owner. Buyer will then be covered under the Lemon Law. Talk about having the best of both worlds and getting your cake and eating it. However, this is only applicable if the car dealer who is a sole proprietor has deep pockets because very few car dealers operating as sole proprietors are in good financial health.

 

[Galantspeedz]

bro, next time i change to used car, jio you go see see with me..

 

my way does not suit everyone... because for me... if i am not happy with how is things done... i will just walk away

 

realise many people don't do that especially if they already went to see a few cars already... and cannot be bothered to continue to find